Talk:Self-replicating machine/Archive 1

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents

Clanking machine merge

Hi, I have proposed merging these two articles because there is very little content in the self-replicating machine article, and a lot of good content in the clanking replicator article, but I feel very few people would actually know what a clanking replicator was if you asked them, so I propose that the clanking replicator article be re-titled "Self-replicating machine" and the content of the two articles merged. Anyone with any objections please don't hesitate to add them here. User: Jaganath 18:28 31 May 2006

Well, okay, I'll object. It seems to me that the term and concept of a "clanking replicator" has been around in the literature for a long time, whereas, unless I've missed something "self-replicating machine" really hasn't. Clanking replicator is a specific term that differentiates the scale at which the process of self-replication occurs, that is, Clanking Replicators are made of macroscale discrete parts. There is a whole other self-replication discussion going on that is functionally the same but proposed to take place at nanoscale. Anyhow, what it appears to me that you've done is blur the boundaries of what we are discussing without taking in any more real material, viz, nanoscale technology to justify the blurring. Plaasjaapie 12:38, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
For me, the difference is one of presentation. Clanking replicator does have an implication of scale, so it could be considered equal to robotic self-replication. This, indeed, is the image shown at article page top. Yet, it would also be reasonable to view the clanking replicator as a metaphor. Self-replication is not. In my view, we should maintain a hierarchy of articles, and hotlinks between, so as to separate abstract from real, metaphor from description, etc. This is indeed the reason for separating von Neumann self-replication Von Neumann Universal Constructor from Universal Constructor. One article refers to the general notion, the other to a specific case. This is important, for as von Neumann defined the general case, he also developed a specific example. Well, actually two examples. The kinematic model (a robotic notion) is a good specific example of the clanking replicator concept. The tesselation model (cellular automata) is the abstract concept. Universal construction, on the other hand, is a global concept. These distinctions should be retained within the structure of article interconnection, and not within article wording. There is much value to the conveyance of information through its organisational structure, an additional measure of content beyond that one would obtain from an article. Further, this allows for pairing of fluff (do they call that cruft here?) in article content. Improved encyclopedic content and efficient presentation is a goal not to be corrupted by inappropriate article merger. William R. Buckley 18:30, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Merge? Constructors, replicators, machines, oh my

I'm trying to sort out the teminology used in various articles here. I've thrown some merge tags on them, although "merge" isn't /quite/ the concept I think is needed (but that's as close as I can think of). I think what is needed is to make sure that all editors are aware of alternative terminology and other articles, and then to re-arrange articles and content and article names to make things clearer. So far, I've encountered the following:


All of the above appear to be related in some way. The terms aren't always well defined. Some of the terms are used interchangably in some places but not in others. One can, generally speaking, make their way from any of the above to any other, but it may take several hops when it should be one. Some of these are dab pages. Some are redirects. Some articles link to redirects. At least one article links to a redirect to itself. I think many of these articles probabbly should exist on their own, but clean-up and more structure is perhaps needed. I'm thinking those "Series boxes" one sees in other Wiki articles might be a good choice. Thoughts? --DragonHawk 01:19, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

  • The Ribosome is also a self-replicating machine, in that given the information necessary, it can construct its own components. Not all self-replicators are man-made. Here are mentioned both specific examples and the most general of theory, as well as applications areas and ethical concerns. Another to consider is epigenesis - machine developmental processes. The best umbrella for these concepts is constructor theory. William R. Buckley 06:47, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Not so sure this is a good idea. A self-replicating machine isn't necessarily a universal constructor. Indeed, it only needs to be able to construct one very specific thing in order to qualify as a self-replicating machine. Bryan 06:53, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Now that I've read the Universal Constructor article as well, I'm now quite sure it's not a good idea to merge them. "Universal Constructor" is about one very specific self-replicating pattern that von Neumann envisioned, and it isn't even a physical thing. Bryan 06:57, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

  • Several comments. 1. It is not true that the universal constructor is a specific example of von Neumann. Indeed, the notion of universal construction is quite general. 2. No, these two articles, self-replicating machine and universal constructor, should not be merged. Though they are based on the same foundation, universal construction, one is a general topic (the notion of universal construction), the other specific (how a constructor, universal or not, can be organised to effect its replication, also called self-replication). 3. It seems that the structure of several articles, and their relationships to each other, need to be changed, to better represent the relationships between these articles. The article on John von Neumann is part of this need. I expect that a number of individuals are thinking carefully about reorganisation - comments on this point exists in talk pages of various relevant articles. 4. Frankly, we should also have an article about constructor theory, and derive universal constructor and self-replicating machine therefrom. William R. Buckley 16:55, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Complexity in Self-replicating Machines

"most living organisms are still many times more complex than even the most advanced man-made device"

What, exactly, does this mean? I don't like statistics like this; when you're talking about the majority (most) of living organisms you're referring to bacteria and there are plenty of man made machines more complicated than bacteria in many regards. You're also dealing with the definition of the word complexity, namely; complexity in what sense? The building blocks in a computer are far more complicated (due to relative scarcity of constituent materials and the necessary processing) than the DNA building blocks of bacteria (composed of 4 rather common nucleotides).

Where does anyone say that there is a need for complexity for self-reproduction? See this article:

http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/May05/selfrep.ws.html

And also,

"If proof were needed that self-replicating machines are possible the simple fact that all living organisms are self replicating by definition should go some way towards providing that proof"

Who ever said that self-replicating machines were not possible?

Ironcorona 00:01, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

  • Prior to von Neumann, no one knew the details of how to build a self-replicating machine. So, as you used the word "ever," consider that any researcher questioning the likelihood of building such a machine, say in the 1700s, would be a candidate in answer of your last question. William R. Buckley 04:35, 17 September 2006 (UTC)


Good point. I agree. In that light, perhaps this paragraph should be modified to read something like
"some critics such as X, Y and Z have voiced opposition to the posibility of creating self-replicating machines, although the simple fact that all living organisms are self replicating, by definition, should go some way towards providing that proof."
I'm not sure that we should assume that, because there were people that might have thought that self-replicating machines were not possible, had they been consulted, that, in fact, anyone did.
There's also the point that perhaps not all living organisms are self replicating. According to the Virus article some people think that viruses are alive [though some think they're not]. As far as I can tell, viruses cannot self-replicate. If anyone had some clarification on that point it would be quite helpful.
of course I realise that I'm in danger of being overly pedantic :)
Ironcorona 00:02, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Phoenix liquid plastic replicator

I removed this from the article:

  • In 1998, Chris Phoenix suggested a general idea for a macroscale replicator on the sci.nanotech newsgroup, operating in a pool of ultraviolet-cured liquid plastic, selectively solidifying the plastic to form solid parts. Computation could be done by fluidic logic. Power for the process could be supplied by a pressurized source of the liquid.[1]

It appears to be a concept that's only been published in a Usenet post, which IMO isn't a good source for this sort of thing even if Phoenix himself is reasonably well known within the field. Anyone know if he republished the concept anywhere else? Bryan 07:38, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

I just found reference to it in Freitas' "Kinematic Self-Replicating Machines", which is probably about the best third-party backing a usenet post like this can get. So back into the article it goes. Bryan 06:28, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Quote

If proof were needed that self-replicating machines are possible the simple fact that all living organisms are self replicating by definition should go some way towards providing that proof, although most living organisms are still many times more complex than even the most advanced man-made device.

I feel I've read this before. In Goedel, Escher, Bach perhaps? Anyhoo: Is this a quote? If so, it should be marked as such. (Obviously.) --91.64.240.54 20:03, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

A Google search led me to these quotes:

"Machines today are still a million times simpler than the human brain. Their complexity and subtlety is comparable to that of insects." -- Ray Kurzweil, as quoted in http://www.kurzweilai.net/articles/art0498.html?printable=1

"Drexler's most compelling argument that radical nanotechnology must be possible is that cell biology gives us endless examples of sophisticated nano-scale machines." -- Richard Jones, http://nanotechweb.org/articles/feature/3/8/1/1

Or is there some other original quote that would be better? --68.0.120.35 07:19, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Great upgrade

Wow! Great additions to the entry Bryan! 206.55.252.246 15:07, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Been tinkering with it off and on for quite some time, but just recently sat down with Frietas' book "Kinematic Self-Replicating Machines" to do some solid writing based off of the information in there. This is a favorite subject of mine. :) Bryan Derksen 05:10, 21 February 2007 (UTC)


Cleanup on self-replicating machine

You just added a cleanup header to self-replicating machine but didn't provide any indication of what you thought needed cleaning up. The article is in very good condition as far as I can tell. Could you specify on the article's talk page please? Bryan Derksen 05:34, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure if I can give a very detailed explanation of why I put that tag there, but basically I think there's too many short sections that felt like it cut the narrative of the article, or like the article seems like a bunch of stubs put together. And some parts can be a bit confusing for example, the first line says The concept of self-replicating machines has been advanced and examined by, amongst others, whereas I think it should explain what a self replicating machine is. Well, that's just an example. I don't wish to get involved in editing specific articles, (besides, all I know about this thing is from this article) I hope that helps, good luck.~ Feureau E.S.P. 15:50, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
Well, I've pondered this issue off and on for a while now and I can't really consider the current layout to be wrong. There are a few sections with single paragraphs but I'm not sure that they should be expanded much; this is an article about a general concept, specific examples should get details in separate articles. I've added a new first sentence but can't think of anything in particular to do about the section headers. Bryan Derksen 07:03, 1 June 2007 (UTC)



Existance of self-replicating machines

Removed the line: "As of 2007, there are no extant self-replicating machines, although this is a burgeoning research area."

see this article from Cornell News

Ironcorona 14:01, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

This is a sticky issue, the existence of self-replicating, self-reproducing, self-repairing, and self-assembling machines. William R. Buckley 19:55, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
The work of Hod Lipson is probably best described as self-assembling. Reproduction has been reserved for use within biological systems. Replication is the equivalent in machines. Perhaps repair is a higher function than replication. William R. Buckley 19:55, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
In fact, no machine, not even man, is able to build all of the parts from which it is made, and by this I mean to include extraction and forming of raw materials to feed all subsequently necessary processes and purposes. Man does not know how to take raw atoms and simple molecules, and by the multitude of industrial processes turn these into the various components of which he is built, and these into another he. Adrian Bowyer looks to have about the closest example of a machine that can produce all its parts. It cannot produce the raw materials, nor can it assemble the parts. William R. Buckley 19:55, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
Actually, a man can build another man fairly easily with the assistance of a woman. Even if you require that we start with just pure raw atoms we currently have the technical ability to synthesize all the micronutrients we'd need. That goes a bit beyond the common definition of self-replication, though. Any definition of "self-replicating" that excludes biological organisms is not a particularly useful definition of self-replication IMO. Bryan Derksen 07:12, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
This is a non sequitur. William R. Buckley 19:47, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure how. You suggested that humans were incapable of "building all the parts from which [they're] made", and I pointed out that they are indeed capable of doing this. The only thing industrial processes would be required for are in manufacturing biochemical feedstocks that we can't manufacture within our own bodies, ie vitamins and such, and that's actually a fairly simple thing to do if we really needed to. Bryan Derksen 23:18, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
Because, you are begging the question. The point is, can you build the thing external to your own body? Can you construct a living system external to all the others known? Can you cobble together all the necessary components, sit back, and observe the act, without participation? William R. Buckley 23:43, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
This subthread is veering off in weird directions, so let's just go back to the core issue. Are you seriously arguing that humans should not be considered self-replicating? If so, can you point to any remotely credible source that supports this view? All those requirements you specify above seem strange and ad-hoc. Why can't a self-replicator build copies internally instead of externally? Bryan Derksen 07:12, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
You are confusing self-replication with self-reproduction. This language is contemporary in usage, and you can find plenty of examples in research literature. How are these processes different? A big difference is the lack of developmental processes in self-replication. Humans do not self-replicate. Rather, they self-reproduce. William R. Buckley 20:13, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
My own work in cellular automata is not particularly different from that of Rendell, Langton, Sayama, to name but a few. In these cases, we say we have self-replicating machines, even if abstract, but they do not make their parts. William R. Buckley 19:55, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
This is exactly von Neumann's concept, for both the kinematic and tessellation models. It was Edward F. Moore who extended von Neumann's ideas to include mechanisms for gathering raw materials from the environment. Implicit within von Neumann's model is the notion that physical automata, by joint and several action, could replicate the parts of which they are made. Von Neumann's notion of robotics includes manipulation of the environment sufficient for the extraction and manipulation of raw materials, and the incorporation of same within new robots. It seems obvious enough that robots are capable of actuating the controls of mills, lathes, and other process equipment, rather in the fashion that would be employed by a human being. The construction of component parts employed in the construction of robots was clearly implied by the kinematic model of von Neumann. Being sufficiently bold in the matter of self-replication, von Neumann refrained from a venture into robotic self-repair. William R. Buckley 21:16, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
The endpoint of this technology is the assembler of Drexler (a centralised solution), and the ribosome(a distributed solution), it would seem. Certainly a macroscopic notion is the robot which commands traditional manufacturing processes, having suitable manipulators and sensors, computing systems, and sufficient information stores, which can then direct the production of all its parts, and the assembly of its replicants. The only difference is the scale at which atoms are manipulated. William R. Buckley 19:55, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
In hindsight, include the molecular assembler as a distributed solution. William R. Buckley 21:16, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
It may be too soon to say that we have now a self-replicating machine but, also soon will such a statement be true. William R. Buckley 19:55, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Bias Complaint

No point in leaving the discussion with Charles Michael Collins, since he removed all of his remarks. We leave this message as reference to the event, for historical purposes. William R. Buckley 20:47, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Good gravy. I'm sorry, I haven't been paying attention to my watchlist much lately and I missed this whole exchange. For the benefit of other editors and historical reference, here's the revision immediately before Collins deleted his comments. I would have stepped in and helped out had I seen this. Bryan Derksen 23:57, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

That's alright Bryan. At least you, and others, now know of the controversy, and its apparent solution. Thanks for noticing. William R. Buckley 01:07, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

F-Unit section

The F-Unit section still has a problem with lack of references, and now it's becoming quite overly large as well. When a single highly-specific subsection of a general article becomes this large I would normally split it out into its own sub-article, but in its current state I imagine that subarticle would be deleted quite quickly - the writing style is very unencyclopedic and the lack of outside sources suggests both conflict of interest and original research problems. Have F-units been covered in any depth by any other researchers? section 3.16 of Kinematic Self-Replicating Machines consists almost entirely of quotations from Collins' patents, which doesn't really help much. Bryan Derksen 01:15, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

A well considered reduction, Mr. Derksen. I reviewed the material given by Mr. Collins on MySpace/mechagenics. Not very much there: a print of the patent cover page; a photo of some part of the claimed system; and a print of a letter from a law firm attesting to something as being worthy of development, and having operability. Certainly nothing upon which to base article section content. Given the amount of source material available for the work of others (like the dreaded Dr. Lipson), it would seem that either the F-Unit section should be reduced in volume, or the other sections should be markedly increased. Mr. Collins, a patent application is not sufficient to justify the text devoted to your work. The rules of Wikipedia require clear sourcing of content, and this requirement is not now satisfied. William R. Buckley 06:06, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
Tomorrow I'll see if I can condense it down to a paragraph or so, which is on par with many of the other specific examples given elsewhere in the article. Expanding the other sections to the same size would be nice, but it would make this article huge and I'd split them out into sub-pages too if that happened. Bryan Derksen 05:33, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
(Note: You both need to re-read the last part over at the last of independent operability as it looked like Buckley came in just before it was finished.)
Again, I will in the strongest, absolute possible terms object to the policy of Wikipedia to not consider patents that have prototypes reduced to practiced and on the record after being duly provided to the patent office be not considered as a reliable source at Wikipedia. Particularly in my case where the patent office expressly required it for patenting of such
I did not say unreliable. I said insufficient. None of those who maintain Wikipedia content have familiarity with your prototype. Further, even if we did, that would be insufficient. To boot, I seriously doubt that any editor cares about your *hard earned career*; take that trash elsewhere. Concentrate on the article, and the justifications for its content. If there is insufficient justification, content removal occurs. One reputable document is not enough. Advertising does not count. Do yourself a favor - get a paper published in a reputable journal. The best choice would be an academic journal. William R. Buckley 20:39, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
Maybe that is what is wrong with your movement. You don't judge human beings by the work they do. Saying you don't
I am not writing about your career. In fact, I don't really maintain *Self-replicating machine* article content. What I do is battle with those who would corrupt encyclopedia content. William R. Buckley 21:01, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
care about a person you are writing on's carrer is a mistake. Every culture and movement since the dawn of time have used that yardstick and if the "open source movement" does not it will fall. "Trash"? And they say I am contentious. No
personal remarks please! The way you get away with all of them you MUST be Wikipedia's secret master editor(s) using an anon proxy. (Charles Michael Collins) October 19, 2007 1:42 AM (EST) User:fraberj
a bodacious innovation. I do accept in full agreement and backing that patents without submitted working prototypes reduced to practice, though valuable and interesting can be rejected as reliable source until later reduced to practice and made public. This wreaks of Stallmanism. Further, this creates a "wag the dog" literary conflict highly damaging to my hard earned career only for the benefit of the biased editors here and over exposure of my product before it is ready to be presented to the public with safe countermeasures. It is, further forcing the outing of the technology for the first time under absolutely needless contention, raising fears and upsets and uproars. This is not good. I should be allowed to maintain control of what I release without having to release undue aspects to my detriment just to be sourced. This is
Maintain control of your proprietary material as you choose. Simply understand that any content which is not sourced external to you is subject to removal. Release as much or as little as you choose; content is determined by external, third party sources. No original research. If this rule, no original research, were not in effect, I would probably publish my work directly in Wikipedia. The rule is there for a reason, and that is to prevent accumulation of such one-source material. Wikipedia is neither advertising venue, nor self-promotional soap-box (well, save these occasional banters in the talk pages). Get your *I love me* in places other than article content. The only thing I care about in relation to you is the benefit a discussion of your work means for article content, and that decision will not be made by any one person. Get used to how Wikipedia works; give back to society something greater than a stuffed shirt. William R. Buckley 20:39, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
Noting the raprochment between China and Mr. Bill, it would seem the rest of the capitalistic world is ready to embrace open source. This is an omen for you, Charles. William R. Buckley 20:39, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
Hmmmm? Ranting? Contention? How can Capitalism coexist with Open Source Culture? (if that's ever been really defined outside software realms) Equating me to Bill Gates again are you? ...or was it Clinton? Can't really tell with you guys
What an ego you have. There is no comparison between you and Mr. Bill. Instead, I presented an observation of the behavior of one who is clearly more successful at promotion than are you. Further, this person, William Howard Gates III, seems quite comfortable with the Chinese way of doing business, having learned the hard way that the Chinese legal system does not protect those who seek to market their products via greed. Microsoft's legal battles in China yield no tangible benefit but, the new tactic of going along and getting along, making far less money per unit, has still resulted in a direct friendship between Mr. Bill and Chinese leader Hu Jintao. William R. Buckley 20:53, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
with all your nifty tricks. Well go right ahead I think you know by now I could care less about your attempted vilifications and guilt trips, ethics baiting etc. Sticks and stones to you too. When I finish this new self-replicator I think there will be nothing that will threaten my future, one way or the other if you want to focus on me personally like
Do be sure, please, that your replicator not become a gray goo, intent upon consuming you. Also, stop shouting fraberj.
that. The question is where will you and the rest of the human beings on this planet stand and, just as importantly, what will they plan to do? What should I do, what do they think, what do you think? Don't you think it is you that is being uncooperative? Where does, (I better stand back when I say it) Lou Dobbs and his supporters fit in to your assessment of the big picture? Bill G. speaks before congress as a "one world order globalist" L1 advocate and all... and what is your
I do this moron thing, called thinking. As I like to form my own opinions. (To George Carlin: Thanks for letting me steal your jibe). No other person speaks for me. The proof is in my writing. William R. Buckley 20:53, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
assessment of the connections of your "counterculture" (or what, appears to be what used to be "subculture") to globalization and.. oh yea forgot about them did you, the Illuminati network and the S.P.P. and the like? Seems that all your idols and enemies are a bit connected, and if you become mainstream you won't have any silly little pretty group to hang out with calling themselves "counterculture" anymore doing your fun little mischief stuff... and everybody's whispering (where's Stallman's super duper OS he promised us?), maybe the drugs are taking their toll. Since you want it all out in the open here what IS your official opinion on drug legalization, anyway? and what's all this got to do with my
When the common knowledge is that the US President has powdered his nose, I think the whole drug war issue collapses. I hold that we should not have police. Instead, we should each be a member of the public police force. Give me a twin rig! My politics are anarchistic libertarianism - also known as, *no government is good government*. This position is well documented, and lifelong. William R. Buckley 20:53, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
self-replicator being passed over for YOUR new flavor of dinosaurs mating? ... I know and you know that I have a self-replicator, I know you are tech oriented enough to know that by now by way of the questions you asked me, but not
Actually, I do not know that you have a self-replicator, for you have not demonstrated same to me. I will give you the benefit of doubt, and agree that you may indeed have a self-replicator, this agreement tentative and subject to change, particularly upon your demonstration to me of this purported self-replicator. The difference between us is that my claim is demonstrable in the academic and public literature, and yours is not. On may easily find the source code of my self-replicators. Conversely, one may not find same regarding your work. You have the opportunity to sway but, have not availed yourself of that opportunity. William R. Buckley 20:53, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
I am going to say something, and I want you to read it closely to heart. Fathom it to the day you die. Put 100% attention and importance and priority and emergency upon this one senior and important statement I will make next. It means much to me and is the most important thing I have to say herein now and forever: Your work is most likely impressive. My next comment is not on that. However, "academia" means one thing and one thing only to me. And it is this: 0. User:fraberj 05:00, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
publishing it here as you ethically should is unethical and unprincipled... so if you are concerned about my perception of you and your group as somehow beneficial to me or mankind, to somehow abandon my patent to "out source" it and join your side don't bother. You're making a bad impression. Particularly when you pose the "open source" culture movement as an economic predator against this target or another. And the washing machine turns and turns... Oh, by the way, you are soooo hot and cold water, like "bad cop, good cop"... are you a police investigator? (Charles Michael Collins) October 19, 2007 1:14 AM (EST) User:fraberj


highly irregular for an encyclopedia or publication of any kind. Particularly when WJFK sourced it and Frietas and Merkle foisted it into the spotlight with their outrageous book that is clearly only devised to bust my patent in the most scandalous manner imaginable in every way available to their hands for personal greed to sell books and get grants and make my device with Toth Fejel at NIAC. Further it is clear that there exists a veritable war between myself and academia initiated by their well documented indifference not only towards me but towards other individuals over the years under similar circumstances. Further, you propose leaving Frietas and Merkle's scandalous book and works on this page knowing they committed deliberate copyright infringement and scientific misconduct. I only came here after noticing Frietas and
Editors of this article have no proof of any infringement due the work of Frietas and Merkle. Your assertion thereto is not proof. If you feel infringement exists, go to court. Take your chances. See if instead of judgment in your favor, you instead are found guilty of a frivolous filing. Your venting will not change article content. Article content is based upon third partly documentation. It is your obligation to provide creation of such third party documentation, and the courts present one means to get same. William R. Buckley 20:51, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
Are you not aware of the fact that in your own Wikipedia at site:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use
On the subject of fair use it expressed : "Harper & Row, Publishers, Inc. v. Nation Enters, the use of less than 400 words from President Ford's memoir by a political opinion magazine was interpreted as infringement because those few words represented "the heart of the book" and were, as such, substantial."
Please count the words he quoted from the "heart" of my patent please in Frietas and Merkle's book then delete the infringing material and links. (Charles Michael Collins) October 19, 2007 2:24 AM (EST)
Merkle's book here and only did the last article after their book came out in defense of myself which is not vanity or conflict of interest. What ever happened to apposing views being presented in the media? Has Wikipedia rescinded that right
The article pages of Wikipedia are not debate fora. William R. Buckley 20:51, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
That's no excuse. Encyclopedias should have balanced content. So should any publication, for that matter. (Charles Michael Collins) October 19, 2007 2:47 AM (EST)
under the GNU too? I would hope not. You wanted good content, I gave you good content and besides what you might think it 'is very good reading, rich with real historical substance. The conflict alone is news worthy on a subject this large because it does not get any larger. Not like that flooding fodder of the others.
Further, the "patent nonsense" page within Wikipedia's rules indicate the following: "However, it is not set in stone and should be treated with common sense and the "occasional exception". Further, the link from "occasional exception" links to this substantive instruction: "If a rule prevents you from working with others to improve or maintain Wikipedia, ignore it". I would advise you do just that.
Note to those who block on basis of legal threats - clearly you are not living up to Wikipedia standards, as the rule of No Legal Threats has made working with others (in particular, Charles Michael Collins) near impossible, and so that rule should have been ignored. You seem to do that very well with the personal attacks that Charles Michael Collins has imposed upon me. In particular, I refer to CambridgeBayWeather, Yamla, and Neil. William R. Buckley 02:59, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
Less Mr. Buckley forget I was first the recipient of a personal affront by Mr. Buckley in uttering these words, saying that I sounded like a: "deranged malcontent" (01:45, 4 October 2007 (UTC). Further, the specific statement that he refers to calling a "slander" was not so nor, further a proper accusation of "libel" because it was a written two part sentence wherein I was accusing another person, that I had just finished talking about of stealing my patent not Buckley. He just dredged that up as another reason to perform another attack nonetheless even knowing this which he has continued to present a pattern of all throughout my communications with him herein. This is simply merchanting chaos. There is not enough attention paid, often times into who started the trouble and I would appreciate that such proper alignment of justice be applied here, if any. Further, this is a talk page for giving opinion and opinion is never actionable as slander nor libel that he stated he thinks are one and the same. Allowing such to exists casts the Chilling effect upon opinion of article content so bestowed and discussed herein limiting valuable content. (Charles Michael Collins) User:fraberj 07:50, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
This is inaccurate, at best. Further, removal of the relevant discussion, as Mr. Collins did (presumably so that others would not be privy to the content of that discussion) makes the comments of Mr. Collins (immediately above) appear quite self-serving. It is true that I described the first entry of Mr. Collins as making Mr. Collins sound like a "deranged malcontent." Such a statement is not an accusation. Rather, it is an observation. I am not surprised however that Mr. Collins does not seem to understand this difference. William R. Buckley 15:47, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
Again Mr. Buckley has alluded to some unspecified, generally described occurrence and disparaged it. In fact, generality and done it twice. Innuendo? Maybe. As to the material I removed of my own writings it constituted a large amount of my responses to such similar general disparaging comments that had taken up unruly amounts of space that was simply diluting any new discussions and any real content I had put in it was wholly unappreciated. Further, it was clear that no one here seems to care about substance on self-replicating machines or at least so far and there was little to the point there just haggling over minutia. Most of the writings gravitated around those such as Merkle's who have produced no working self-replicator that I can detect and have infringed upon the copyrighted description of my patent far beyond fair use who create nothing more with my ideas than create a bunch of nonsensical hoopla to to sell books which is what most of the "nanotechnology" literary community has fed upon for years. Now, since I published a real world self-replicator they have begun to feed on that and supplanted my terminology with von Neumann's and have tried to bust the patent which is what Buckley has stated interests in at least once herein which got, justifiably redacted. Mr. Buckley then, himself revived it all again to pick over. Now he is complaining about my using it.
Buckley now holds me as "self serving" simply for doing what any normal person would do defending my own interests. Is it "self serving" for me to defend myself from this? No. This concept is absurd. But Buckley would have one believe such. He admits to initiating those disparaging comments but the record shows that after the comments were made that the justifications for them did not hold up under scrutiny and it seems he was just confusing the comments I made about other transgressor's actions with my discussions about them. The describer of the villain is not the villain, please. Indeed, shoot the messenger tactics here. Here's the underlying main problem (and he may even agree with me on this one): If a person here happens to express any form of communication utilizing another form of dialect not hailing from Mr. Buckley's parochial region of preference he finds this reason to disparage it argumentatively. Thereafter, any defense of this will be described as, somehow "self-serving". This calls for me to coin another term: greed-baiting.
I guess the only thing I have going for me is that I live in Northern Virginia, two steps out of Washington D.C. and Mr. Buckley in Southeastern California (if I got it right) and that makes me closer to not only England but closer to where the Brits first landed and a few steps from Washington D.C. which pretty much is the seat of the United States (although you can knock off a few points for being an "inside the beltwayer" several times). Being that as it may, I've lived in Washington D.C. all my life and visited and lived in England as well as three years as a child with schooling in France, learned perfect french. Northern Virginia Schools have been cited to be some of the best. So, being closest to where English itself began maybe my chosen flavor of it should prevail. Further, since my self-replicator actually existed maybe my terminology should supplant the other less practical ones instead the vice versa. What works is what works, preferable for self-replicators, same for communications. Just like Larry the liquidator said: I'm not your best friend, I'm your only friend when it comes to self-replicator encyclopedia content. John von Neumann came up with some of the fanciest writings on self-replicator ideas of his time. But that was then, this is now. Just call me Larry the liquidator of self-replicator tech speak. Out with "cellular automatta" and "kinematic replicator" von Neumann speak and in with "reproductive mechanics" and "Mechagenics". Why? Because that is of what works. No brag, just fact... and you never get noticed in this Britney Spears media world by playing quite any more, by the way, I verily tried that. User:fraberj 05:57, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
Since, I, Frietas and particularly Merkle (who has a patent shortly after mine citing mine as prior art and are direct, competitors of mine, clearly bias against me, hostile in every way in the book "Kinematic Self Replicating Machines") and we all have huge patents, maybe a section on patents should be had and move my piece there as a self defense against these miscreants. Entitle it: "War in the Nanosphere" (just give me credit for that name please).
Take credit yourself, and create the article. I would have no problem with that approach. William R. Buckley 02:59, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
Further, what about my CD album and movie "War in the Nanosphere"? Mention of the first CD on this theme and snippets could be played at the site if you like and there is much much art pertaining to the movie in high resolution. If you did me up right, and it was not in vain I have a color 1080 res High Definition art mural of the system completely laid out with text and lead lines, but I will only purvey it into public domain if I am certain that it stays up. FYI: I have a "private" book titled: "The infinity Device"... but I am not certain I want it released just yet but was coauthored by Alex Nicholson (another scientist). I feel sometimes as well, I am treated less dignified on account of presenting myself as an artist as well as a scientist. You might take that into consideration as well because I have a music career to maintain with that image in tow.
(Charles Michael Collins) October 18, 2007 10:43 AM (EST)