Talk:Self-relations Psychotherapy
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Hi: I am Robert Rossel. I am new to Wikipedia. But think it important to have this place form commentary on our process in editing the article, "Self-Relationship". That way we can have a visible parallel process going on that hopefully informs the evolving "field based" intelligence we are participating in creating. I want to start the process by saying the the title of the article is wrong. I think it should be Self Relations or Self Relations Psychotherapy. I think this title is a bit misleading and starts us off on the wrong foot. I have many other thoughts on the article itself, but only want to get the part of the conversation going here. I hope to meet others participating in the process here.
In community, Rob
I also think it is misleading to equate self-relations with sponsorship, as was done in the first sentence. Sponsorship is an important part of the process of self-relations, it is not the whole of it. I would like to suggest, we have a separate section on sponsorship later in the article.
Rob.
I attempted a re-write of the opening sentence. I showed the link of self-relations to psychotherapy up front, pulled out the reference to "sponsorship" (will talk about it later in the article where it belongs). I also put the referenc to Gilligan in the first sentence where it think it belongs and showed the link between self-relations and Ericksonian psychotherapy. I have not found a way to change the title of the article. I still think it is misleading and needs to be changed.
Im out, Rob
I have spent some additional time on editing the opening paragraph. I though it important to open the definition of self-relations a bit and show its broader applications in coaching, organizational work, couples counseling, and community building. I also attempted to smooth out the discussion by separating the presentation of sponsorship from the general introduction. Later I intend to take a look at the sections dealing with Steve Gilligan,s core ideas and what the self-relations community looks like. I like the link to his article on sponsorship. This enables us to not spend quite as much time on it as would be necessary if the link were not there.
Is there anybody else out there working on this page? Rob
I think the title of the article is wrong. Aren't we talking about self-relations or even more precisely, "self-relations psychotherapy?" How do we change an article title? Who created it? How can I talk with this person. Rob (March 4,2005)
Also I just now noticed that the section on symptom-solution I have been editing was in quotes! We really shouldn't be editing this until we know who the author is and the source. So, whoever origingally posted this article, could you please join in this conversation so we can figure out who you were quoting? That way we can decide what to do with this section and how to edit it. Thanks, rob (March 4, 2005)
Is anybody elso out there? I need some help in "cleaning up" this article. The "help" instructions I find extremely unhelpful. It would help if there were specific reference to what needs to be "cleaned up" and who rendered the judgement that it needs to be cleaned up and why? Getting discouraged, Rob (March 4, 2005)
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[edit] Clean up
(I haven't looked at the history page, but I can't make head or tail of the above; is it all the same person?)
I've changed the title (in line with Wikipedia naming conventions), but it's now up to Robert Rossel to do some research on how to improve the article (as per my advice on the Village Pump). Remember to sign all your comments here, so that conversations make sense. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 19:57, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Clean up
(I haven't looked at the history page, but I can't make head or tail of the above; is it all the same person?)
I've changed the title (in line with Wikipedia naming conventions), but it's now up to Robert Rossel to do some research on how to improve the article (as per my advice on the Village Pump). Remember to sign all your comments here, so that conversations make sense. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 19:57, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Long, unattributed quotation
"Gilligan defines what are usually called "symptoms", in part, as an awakening of the soul, the presence of life-force in a person in which someone or something has tried to keep life from flowing and evolving naturally. This perspective acknowledges the purpose of the symptom is to open a pathway toward solutions and healing. A therapist or helper recognizes that a symptom is a "call from the deep," a unique language announcing the presence of something waking up in the body-mind of a subject seeking to be touched and blessed by the healing presence of a loving sponsor. It goes deeper than what we would normally call reframing. Gilligan sees love as the alternative to violence. The therapist's job is to be there as "sponsor," to touch with love whatever a person brings. If there is not a mature human presence (such as a therapist) to be able to touch it, connect with it, that awakening may have no human value.
- "There are three key aspects to sponsorship: (a) the intent is to awaken in a person the awareness of the goodness and the gifts of who they are and are becoming, (b) it awakens one to the goodness and to the gifts and to the possibilities that are in the world, and (c) it fosters traditions that connect and bring these things into something that has human value.
- "Listeners are provided with many examples of the various forms that positive sponsorship may take. Gilligan illustrates the significance of sponsorship in human relationships and soulfulness not only between individuals but also on a community level. He explores the way Anne Sullivan served as a sponsor for Helen Keller's process of awakening. He discusses an interesting PBS special on girls in prison. Stories from his own parenting experiences are brought into the presentation, as are examples from African tribal rituals, Aikido, and Tibetan philosophy. All these serve to highlight the importance of sponsorship in every human circumstance."
Whatever is usable from this needs to be added to the article, either in the writer's own words or in smaller, attributed quotations with linking text. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 10:15, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Mel: To answer your question, all the comments on this page were mine, written when I knew little about the process or purpose of this page. I agree that source of quoted material need to be identifed and then we can make some progress in editing the material. Robert RosselRobert Rossel 15:14, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- I set up this page, the quote above is from SG's own writings and website. If you want I can find a link. I've added it back, but under the title "Perspectives on self-relations", along with some other material and an attempt at structure.
- The main weakness was its lack of conveying exactly what self relations/sponsorship is, and how it differs from other more common forms of "help". So I've tried to fix that a little, at the same time. FT2 02:24, Mar 6, 2005 (UTC)
- (Later) I've tried to add a real sense of the field to the introduction, and also created an article on SG himself. Please check, thanks :) FT2 03:47, Mar 6, 2005 (UTC)
Hi FT2. I really like the way you have reworked the material and put under title "Perspectives on self-relations" I am also glad to see you back in the process. I respect your anonymity but would really like to know about the history of your involvement with Gilligan and others who have studied with him for a long time. I will look carefully at what you have written and see if there are useful minor edits I can add. Rob Robert RosselRobert Rossel
Hi: I think the opening sentence essentially says "Self-relations is a form of self-relations" Very weak. A tautology? This sentence needs to be punched up.RobRobert Rossel 04:06, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Hi agin FT2. Can you please slow down this process--you need to give others time to evaluate what you have written. I vaguely remember a "rule" no more than 3 major edits in a 24 hour period. I like what you are doing--I think. But the record of changes you have made in history is very spotty and hard to follow. RobRobert Rossel 04:33, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Rob & others, I've made a few edits before but have now signed up as a user. I made a few minor edits to try to make this material a little more readable to those without much knowledge of psychotherapy. I also added the References section, and added the 1996 Relational Self article from Hoyt, which predates The Courage to Love, and is to the best of my knowledge the original printed article to use the term "Self Relations" (as Gilligan means it, anyway)
I also added a link to my own SR page, which contains some basic infomation and several articles. Leonard Bohanon
Hi Len: Great editing. Feels great to be doing this collaboratively. You might also include a link to Charlie B's Website. He has many great references to self-relations. RobRobert Rossel 04:31, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Hi again: Scratch my suggestion to include stuff from Charlie B's Website. You already have in the Links to SR articles. RobRobert Rossel 04:48, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I think the whole section, "Steve Gilligan's Description of Self-relations," is weak. First, it is really not his description, it is a description lifted almost verbatim from a review of an autiobook tape by Steve on "The Sponsorship of Soul" written by Sharon McLaughlin. So this section is really Sharon McLaughlin's take on a relatively obscure audiobook by Steve reviewed in a Erickson Foundation document, not Steve Gilligan's description of self-relations. I suggest we focus on rewriting this section now. There are many different sources out there we can tap into. Any suggestions? RobRobert Rossel 19:44, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- Quick answers as its late. I knew others would fix the gaps, I mostly wanted to help suggest part of the improvements needed. I've tweaked one paragraph which was very generic, and tried to find a better wording more specific to the field. The major edits rule is about swamping an article wuith changes, not so much about saving partial reworkings mid flow. Apologies if you wandered in while I was mid session, and saw more edits. But I was doing a session, not just a small tweak or 2 on it. FT2 05:55, Mar 8, 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Symptoms?
You discuss the deeper significance of 'symptoms' in a couple of places - could you give some examples of how symptoms manifest? Especially where you put 'symptoms' in quotes, it's unclear to me whether you are using a specialized definition. Thanks! FreplySpang 20:21, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Hi: A agree that the discussion of "symptoms" need to be clarified. I tried to begin the process in editing the section on Gilligan's language. Some of this will clarify as the editing of this section continues. I still think it is the weakest section at this point. RobRobert Rossel 19:12, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Hi: Looked over the wikified version of article as it is now. Most of it seems fine. Last scetion is till weak. Could be expanded some. Then I think the article is a go. My life has gotten very complicated lately and I will not be able to participate in this project any more. It has been very enlightening. RobRobert Rossel2 April 2005
