Talk:Seinen

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[edit] Seinen series?

Perhaps I do not understand the meaning of seinen correctly, but.. I don't think Bincho-tan and Strawberry Panic can fall under it. 148.78.245.12 05:34, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

They got serialized in seinen magazines, so they are young men's manga. ChuChu

[edit] No Anime?

Why does the list only include manga when there seinen anime as well? For instance, Ergo Proxy is a seinen anime without a manga. I understand not mixing anime into the manga list, but it seems strange to me that there is only manga listed on a page linked to by the anime page. Some of the posts on this talk page seem to indicate that there was once such a list, or am I wrong? If there was, why was it deleted? --Eruhildo 21:53, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

  • I think this needs to be discussed further instead of constantly ignored. The first issue I have is with consistancy. Both the Shounen and Shoujo articles cite the genre as pertaining to both animé and manga. The Shounen article even lists animé titles. Second issue: What's used to classify a series. I don't think serialization should be the 'be-all, end-all gospel truth'. Taking Darker than Black as an example, this animé series does have a companion manga, but is serialized in a shoujo magazine. Anybody who's seen this series will agree that there's nothing shoujo about it. Does that mean it's shoujo? -Biokinetica 08:44, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Seinen list vs Seinen category

As mentioned in a few posts above, the Seinen list should be replaced by the Seinen category. If I find the time I'll go through the list and see that they are in the category, and afterwards replace the list with a link to the category (for an example of what I have in mind see Viz_Media#Anime_manga_and_films_distributed_by_Viz). In case you object, post it here. Ninja neko 12:16, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

I went ahead and switched the list with the category, hope I worded it correctly. Ninja neko 19:37, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
That's much better than how it was before. The list didn't look very good and didn't make that much sense here. Thanks for the hard work! --Eruhildo 21:01, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] This is not Seinen!

I took the liberty of removing a good number of titles from that list. Titles like Azumanga Daioh or Oh! My Goddess are most certainly not Seinen. --Mr.SmartyPants 2:55, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Edit: I did not see the archives. I apologize for the deletions. Hopefully the page can be restored (Though I don't agree that a lot of the titles listed are considered Seinen). Frick, there's a lot of debate among what is and isn't Seinen. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.49.32.235 (talk • contribs).

Yes: Ah! My Goddess is Seinen (show in TBS Fri 01:55 midnight and from Afternoon magazine, a seinen manga) Abacovt 05:13, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

"Rozen Maiden" would be hard-pressed to be described as seinen. I nominate it being removed from the list. Bricology (talk) 22:17, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Are there any seinen magazines in US

Can someone please tell me if there are any magazines that have seinen manga in the United States? Thank You —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.139.199.125 (talk) 04:11, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Try List of manga magazines#Magazines published in the United States. If that doesn't help: do a google search, try a forum, or use Yahoo! Answers. This talk page is meant for discussion for improving the article, so that's all the help I'll give you. Next time please use one of the above mentioned resources and not Wikipedia. Thank you. --Eruhildo (talk) 00:30, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] More clear definition

I was wondering if we could get a more clear definition of what seinen would entail. The article doesn't give any examples, unlike that of all the other demographic articles. Lacking furigana is not good enough as an indicator as anime doesn't write out what they are saying, and I have been told before that a manga which I found used furigana, was seinen. —Preceding unsigned comment added by AjaaniSherisu (talk • contribs) 09:38, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree. The definition is confusing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.64.146.16 (talk) 09:23, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
The article says that seinen is "generally targeted at an 18–30 year old male audience". I can't see how you can get any more clear than that, but some examples would be good. I added some that I think are well known series. I tried to give many different styles and genres. Does this help any? --Eruhildo (talk) 10:31, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
Most seinen I've seen don't seem to be anything a typical 18-30 year old guy would enjoy though, but I could be wrong. I mean look at Yotsubato! (Yotsuba&!), it's a seinen that doesn't hint at leaning towards being aimed at males. To me Yotsubato! is aimed for everyone.
If Yotsubato! is seinen, the definition in the article doesn't fit. OneMagna's definition calls seinen "darker and more somber" than shounen, yet Yotsubato! isn't dark or somber, it's a light hearted series that is very cute. Perhaps maybe we could try to find a better definition also? AjaaniSherisu (talk) 09:35, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
The problem is a mix of misconceptions and dated information. Misconception because seinen is not a genre, and so it can't be characterized by styles and themes. And dated because all these misleading definitions were made when most seinen manga known in North America were "dark and somber", like Berserk, for example. But seinen just describe the target audience (18–30 year old men, specifically), and styles or themes are pretty irrelevant. For us it may seem weird, as something like Yotsubato! don't seem to be what a typical 18-30 year old guy would enjoy. But maybe reading the Cuteness in Japanese culture article would help to understand why a typical Japanese men would like this kind of stories. Ultimately we should always take into account that the target audience of manga was thought out specifically for the Japanese mindset, and so it only makes sense for a Japanese audience. Kazu-kun (talk) 18:34, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
I guess I can see what you are saying ^_^. I was wondering though what you meant by "Japanese mind set"? I wasn't aware that I was supposed to have a certain mindset. I hope I'm not being rude, I just was wondering :(. AjaaniSherisu (talk) 05:13, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
Well, the primary audience of manga are the Japanese, which is the audience manga publishers think of when doing their marketing. How does a seinen audience (18-30 year old Japanese men) think? What does a seinen audience like? Manga publishers have to think about all this in order to reach their audience. So we may not understand why an X manga is targeted to an X audience, because we don't think exactly like a Japanese, nor we like exactly the same things. That's what I meant by "Japanese mindset". Kazu-kun (talk) 06:58, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
But the thing is, I am Japanese. While I am only half, I don't have this mind set you talk about. Exactly what is "think like a Japanese" anyway? I wasn't aware we all thought the same. Maybe I'm just reading it wrong, and if I am, I'm sorry. I just want to make sure you aren't being racist in your comments. Again, if you didn't have any intention on that, I am sorry. AjaaniSherisu (talk) 07:27, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Seinen - anime and manga or just manga?

Is this ANN article a good enough ref to say that seinen is used to refer to manga and anime? Or do I need to look for more? Just because we decided to not label any anime series as aimed at a particular demographic doesn't mean saying seinen can refer to anime is OR. --Eruhildo (talk) 06:54, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

ANN's lexicon is dated and therefore misleading, so it can't be used as a source. Anime producers usually don't disclose their target audience, so seinen is rarely used in relation to anime. If you think that's not correct, then try to find an Anime producer stating one of their anime as seinen (or more accurately, stating that it is targeted to a seinen audience). You'll realize anime producers almost never do this. Kazu-kun (talk) 07:09, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
Since you say it's dated info, does that mean anime producers use to state the demographic? If so, can we say that in the article? Also, why do we link to ja:男性向けアニメ in the external links? And why do we link to Japanese Magazine Publishers Association? Lastly, can someone fix the other articles listed in the See also section as well as the anime article?
I think what he means is that anime producers don't really use seinen as a demographic like you see with manga. ANN also states certain aspects which don't fit a lot of seinen titles, so it does seem to be a bit dated. One wouldn't say Bamboo Blade is dark, psychological, or sexual. AjaaniSherisu (talk) 07:27, 2 June 2008 (UTC)