Talk:Sefer Yetzirah
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This page suffers from 1906 syndrome. Could we discuss the possibility of moving all 1906 stuff to a subpage and rewrite a page, rather than attempting to improve the 1906 text? I have done something similar or Kohen. JFW | T@lk 15:11, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)
I'm not sure what you have in mind. Please elaborate. Physicist 15:19, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)
I'm not sure either, but I have my doubts about the NPOC which claims Babylonian and Egyptian origins of ideas about a Jewish mystical work, especially when Jewish occupation of both places is an established historical fact.
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[edit] Κοσμοποιία ("Creation of the World") and other errors
This article is littered with errors. First of all The comment, "Such a work, entitled Κοσμοποιία ("Creation of the World")" I have been studying the yetzirah for several years now. Apon reading this article i thought this was a rather amazing thing. So i searched engines, checked my books (waite, kaplan, gershom, papus, etc) and i could find no refference to a greek book known as Κοσμοποιία ("Creation of the World"), or any relationship to the yetzirah and this supossed book.
Also, the phonetical system described about the mother letters is rather confused. The phonetics are described as the five places in the mouth in the first chapter. and the sounds of the mother letters in the third. you forget to mention the two different pronounciation of the double letters in the forth. But this is also very different concepts. The Five different pronounciatuons are grouped regardless of there category of mother, double or simple letters. While the explanation of Shin making a Sh sound, and Mem making an Mmm sound is grouping them as mother/double/simple. Not the 5 phonetic categories previously explained. You would probably also want to place that After cosmogony.
The Yetzirah is also in hebrew, it was unnessicary for give the greek spelling of "Power" in the cosgony section.
"the Sefer Yetzirah assumes a double creation, one ideal and the other real." it does? where does the yetzirah say this? Seems more like an opinionated strech to me
There is also too many refferences to the Gnostics. Platonusism/Neo-platonusism/Christian Gnosticism Only became exposed to the yetzirah long afterwards and was never officialy adopted as a gnostic book, it is a Jewish book fundamentaly. So things like "In addition to the doctrine of the Sefirot and the letters, the theory of contrasts in nature, or of the syzygies ("pairs"), as they are called by the Gnostics, occupies a prominent place in the Sefer Yetzirah." seem more like a needless plug for gnosticism.
I could go on, by i have a headache now and would rather drink some coffee. This article may just be easier to redo. However, keeping it as it is would be a crime against... something
Um, I checked back at this discussion page after some time, no comments have been added. I suposse its not a big discussion. but if people would not mind. I would rewrite this article if they liked. I already contributed a bit on the tree of life, sepiroths, and etc.
Jaynus _Izanagi 11:41, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Formation not Creation
"Yetzirah" means Formation and Creation is "Briah". SO I correct the title. --Sepand 10:30, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Two Books? Angels?
This article and the one at Jewish Encyclopedia both refer to "two books" and that the second on deals with angles. That is confusing to me because I'm only aware of one Sefer Yetzirah, though there are different versions of the text called the Long Version the Short Version and at least a few others that seem to have elements of both the Long and Short. I don't know Hebrew so my knowledge is limited to translations, mostly by gentiles with either a Christian or Occult perspective, but I haven't seen any thing about angles in any of them. Jaynus offered to do a re-write. I'd like to see it because he appears to be more knowledgeable than I am, but if he doesn't then I may attempt it in a few weeks. I recently started reading Aryeh Kaplans book and I have researched the history and compared several English translations sided by side. I may not be the best, but I think I can put together something that better reflects current knowledge and scholarship better than what is here now. I'm not in any hurry though. I've got other projects I currently involved with, but this article definitely needs work.--◀Pucktalk▶ 03:46, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] What was sefer yetzira originally?
There was only one book, which appeared in the time of Saadya Gaon. The "2nd book" is a reference to "hilchot yetzira" in the Talmud, which means 'the laws of creation.' Scholem thought this was a reference to Sefer Yetzira, and ascribed it to the Amoraic period, but this is doubtful and highly problematic.
It also is not 'mystical.' It is esoteric, but was commented on by rabbis, mystics, and philosophers alike. It became the basis of kabbalah, and was read by kabbalists as a mystical work, but more likely stemmed from the alchemists.
[edit] New Scholarly work on the derivation of the Sefer Yesira
There appears to be some new work being added to the examination of the Sefer Yetzirah, to my knowledge, the first endeavor in a long time produced by the work of scholar A. Peter Hayman. Here are a few quotes and a link to the book: http://www.coronetbooks.com/books/sefe3812.htm
Sefer Yesira Edition, Translation & Text-Critical Commentary [In English & Hebrew]
By A. Peter Hayman June 2005 ISBN: 3161483812
"The author provides the first comprehensive critical edition of a text which was a fundamental influence on Jewish thought in the medieval period and has continued to fascinate scholars and students of Judaism to the present day. With its English translation of the three earliest recensions and its commentary on the variant early texts of the work, this book is essential reading for anyone interested in the growth and emergence of the Jewish mystical movement.
Contents include: The fluid state of the text of Sefer Yesira, Why a new edition of Sefer Yesira?, The "original text" of SY or "the earliest recoverable text"?, Editing Jewish texts from the first millennium C.E., The Manuscripts, The rules of the edition, Abbreviations in the textual apparatus, Notes on the manuscripts, The chapter and paragraph divisions (Appendix II), the Four Pre-Kabbalistic commentaries, The Earliest Recoverable Text of Sefer Yesira and the Three Recensions, The Three Recensions of the SY Text Tradition." end quote.
Regards, Rev. D. Strickler 01:06, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
