Talk:Second Great Awakening

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[edit] Merge

I'm not sure I'd agree with merging Old/New Lights with this article - they are usually associated with the First, not the Second Great Awakening. Perhaps some disucussion of Old and New School Presbyterians would be helpful, though.

-JFahler

And the terms are more general than the use here. I've expanded Old Lights as an example; if there are no objections, I'll eventually merge New Light into Old Lights, and remove all the merge tags.
-- TimNelson 10:16, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Done -- TimNelson 12:01, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Copyvio?

Blocks of this text show up in Google, at:

http://www.gmsys.net/teachers/english/background/history/us_history4.htm

http://odur.let.rug.nl/~usa/H/1994/ch4_p13.htm

Does it have copyright problems?

This article is copied in several places on the internet, and with each new copy I believe that an historical inaccuracy is perpetuated. It claims that observers of the Second Awakening revivals in the East were "awed by the respectful silence" of those bearing witness to their faith. This does not appear to be true — however, I'll leave it there until I can find solid proof. I used to have a quote, which I believed was the original source of this misquote, which I took to say almost precisely the opposite. I'll see if I can find it. Otherwise, the article is dense with good information, IMO. — Mkmcconn

Contrary to the paragraph:

There was dancing, running and singing - all of which Stone said were manifestations of God's presence. The noise of the meetings was so great that some said "the noise was like the roar of Niagara."

Supporting the paragraph:

"In the east, Yale University experienced a revival of Biblical Christianity under President Timothy Dwight, Jonathan Edwards' grandson. Christianity was almost nonexistent then at Yale, the campus church almost extinct. For four years Dwight preached a series of weekly sermons on Christian belief; when he finished the series, he started over again. Finally, in 1801, after seven years of preaching, revival came to Yale. At least half of the student body was converted to Christianity under Dwight's Presidency. One college tutor wrote home to his mom, "Yale College is a little temple; prayer and praise seem to be the delight of the greater part of the students while those who are still unfeeling are awed with respectful silence." [1]

The contrast here is between the experience-centered revivals of Cane Ridge, and the college-centered revivals in the eastern states. But even in this, does the quote really say what the entry has taken it to say? Are the unbelieving students in awe of the respectful silence kept by those who testify to their faith? Or isn't the reporter, in plainer English, writing to tell his mother that even those who are not part of the revival of religion at the college are not speaking out against it or mocking it, but respectfully keep their mouths shut. I'm considering how to change the entry. — Mkmcconn

I've deleted the paragraph. Mkmcconn 19:39 May 7, 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Second Great Awakening

Can we put some dates on this? Is ca, 1790- 1840 realistic?

It depends on who's doing the telling. The Cumberland Presbyterians date the revival from around 1795 (numerous presbyteries passed several resolutions to pray for revival, beginning around 1790, or so). The Stone-Campbell people date it from 1800/1801 (Cane Ridge). The end is harder to point to. Mkmcconn (Talk) 04:44, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
Would it be reasonable to put the endpoint at 1844 with the Great Disappointment?? Ansell 08:51, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
yes but that only affected a small group of Millerites. the next awakening has to start 1857 so we better end this one in 1840s Rjensen 09:34, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

This article needs dates.

[edit] Causes?

Does anyone know why this happened? It would be hard to believe it's just a big coincidence... --euyyn 07:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

I've just found something about this here --euyyn 07:50, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

And this in History of the LDS:

This "awakening" was a Christian response to the secularism of the Age of Enlightenment, and extended throughout the United States, particularly the frontier areas of the west.

I hope to find something more scattered in other articles before I try to add it to the article. --euyyn 00:44, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Louis P. Masur, 1831: Year of Eclipse.

"But with this growth [referring to the expansion of the United States, Westward development, etc.]came discord. The middle class divided on political and religious issues and united against the labouring classes on moral questions such as the consumprion of alcohol. The story repeated itself in scores of other towns and cities. With expansion and wealth came dissension and strife. Only a revival of religion, many believed, could preserve the nation "from our vast extent of territory, our numerous and increasing population, from diversity of local interests, the power of selfishness, and the fury of sectional jealousy and hate." page 66. quoting from Lyman Beecher "Necessity of Revivals."

You should also look at Joyce Appleby's "Inheriting the Revolution" which talks about how the 2nd Great Awakening interacted with republican ideas of progress and self-development. Both civic and religious reformers saw mankind as flawed, capable of being reformeed, and that that reform must start from the self. This fit well with republican virtues, even if religious involvement with the state did not. Cherbert18 20:17, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Asahel Nettleton

Just observed that as yet there is no Wikipedia page for Asahel Nettleton (1783–1844) who was one of the most influential figures during the Second Great Awakening. This is a plea for someone to take up the task. [2] gives a cameo. [3] is a brief biographical sketch. To prepare such an article, the user is directed to the invaluable book by Andrew A. Bonar and Bennet Tyler. DFH 19:18, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Swedenborgianism

Does anyone have information on whether Swedenborgianism was involved in the SGA? The English church had missionaries in the United States about this time. WBardwin 06:53, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Controversy and Generations

I have a couple of questions/comments about this article

1. Why is no mention made of the fact that the Second Great Awakening is a controversial term among historians? Many feel lumping various 19th century religious movements under that term (and implicitly making a connection to the original "Great Awakening") is a huge mistake. I think this should be discussed, and I might try to work on this in the future.

2. What is up with the "generations" box on the right? I know the Strauss and Howe book and found it interesting, but implicitly tying the Second Great Awakening to some made-up list of American generations is completely bizarre and practically constitutes original research, since this was apparently not one of the "generations" which Strauss and Howe used. Can we delete this from the article? Historians of this period would, I think, shudder at its inclusion.--Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 19:55, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

No replies, and I have gone ahead and removed the generations template. I find the entire template to be bizarre and probably worthy of deletion, but it certainly does not belong here. The Second Great Awakening is not a "generation" and is not even referred to as such by Strauss and Howe, nor anyone else as far as I am aware. As I mentioned above, the very term "Second Great Awakening" is so controversial among historians that referring to it as a "generation" is even more ridiculous. We're making stuff up out of whole cloth here. I'm theoretically open to arguments for including this template in the article, and I think such arguments need to be offered before the template is reinstated. Arguments like "it's a useful template" or "the Second Great Awakening is included in the template" will obviously not be convincing.--Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 19:20, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
The Strauss and Howe fan club is really out of control. They behave as if anyone reads their books. It's spread like a virus onto many pages on wikipedia and needs to be monitored.
More importantly, WHO CAME UP WITH THE IDEA OF A SECOND GREAT AWAKENING????? This seems like a very biased, point of view, article, with little basis in reality. I know of no US Historians who take the term seriously. This article needs citations or it needs to die. I'm sorry, but it's not fair to promote the idea of a "Second Great Awakening" as if it's a fact. SAYS WHO? Very unhappy with this article. I'd like to see this article's fans come up with some firm backing. --Dylanfly 16:45, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
P.S. The citations which mention "Great Awakening" include articles from 1970, 1980. The Hankins book sold so poorly that it never came out in paperback. So does this "great awakening" exist?

[edit] Vandalism

This page has been vandalised but I don't know enough about the topic to repair it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wayne Stewart (talk • contribs) 04:06, 7 November 2007 (UTC)