User talk:Seasalt/Archive 1

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[edit] Welcome!

Hello, Seasalt/Archive 1, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! 

I have never driven a Daimler, but you make it look good. DS 17:35, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Protocol

Just so you know - you should never sign your name after making an edit to an article. This is because any given article can have dozens, or even hundreds, of individual editors, and if everyone signed, then the article would quickly become an illegible mess of signatures. Information as to who made which edit is automatically tracked, and is available in the article history.

Conversely, you should always sign the messages you leave on article discussion pages or on user talk pages.

No harm done - this is just so you know. DS 14:34, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

So i don't sign "stubs"....i noticed Huon had edited Karosserie Baur in that manner...apologies for obtuseness.. did not associate editing article with creating article.Seasalt 14:34, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Seasalt 12:22, 18 August 2006 (UTC)Thank you guys for the improvements to my contributions.

[edit] Edit Summary

Hello Seasalt - I hope this finds you well! Thank you for all your contribuions to various, especially those to the Motorcycle articles - really appreciated. Just a small point, but please make sure you add an Edit Summary in the box at the bottom of what you have done to any article. Not doing so can be considered Vandalism here, and any of your edits not having an edit summary could therefore be reverted. I have noticed you have two forms of edit - adding details to an article (you need to include a brief summary in the Edit Summary box); and adding extra paragraphs (these are considered Minor Edits - tick the left hand box below the Edit Summary, and no need to add comments). I hope you find Wikipedia a welcoming place, and you'll find if your editing right but not matching protocol, that there are many here to help, assist and guide you. If you have any questions, please just drop me a message! Best Regards - Trident13 13:25, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Notable

Is this page notable or not: Mikhail Lebedev --GoOdCoNtEnT 08:11, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ducati Pantah Speedy Deletion

Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Content_review Ducati Pantah

Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Ducati_Pantah

Talk:Ducati_Pantah

It is not so much wanting to have the page restored as understand the process, what the error/breach of limits was in my actions there. Meanwhile there is a redirect from Pantah to Ducati Pantah, and no article on either. (a negative result)If I make further changes there, I would not like to see that deleted too, on the basis of what was wrong the first time.

How do you know who proposes it? One section I read said contact the person who did it to discuss it, but no explanation of how you know who that is.......

In the "speedy deletion" guidelines, I failed to find the "C&P article" reason cited as a deletion trigger. I was surprised at the lack of communication when it happened.

As a relatively new user here, my relative ignorance of procedures, and user limits, means a clear explanation, or link to one, at the time would have been much appreciated. Seasalt 05:48, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

One suggestion. Try using the scratchbox more so that you don't have to make multiple edits in a row. Just use "show preview" instead of "save page". Keeps the edit log tidier. Good work on the Ducati references, bravo! Izaakb 01:55, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Um...

I'm sorry, I'm not quite sure what exactly happened. From what I can tell... there were two articles, and they were both originally misnamed, and then moved to new names?

The "copy and paste" thing is... it's for merging edit histories, because of record-keeping, except that it should have been undeleted minutes later, and...

I'm going to have to look into this some more before I understand it myself; obviously I won't be able to explain it to you yet!

Wish me luck. DS 13:05, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I wrote Pantah after clicking on a red link saying that, then noted all stubs prior to those i'd done were preceded by "Ducati_"
So i thought I should make my stubs conform to that (probably dumb assumption) but, only with Pantah stub change, got edit conflict and then speedy deletion notice for Ducati_Pantah. I was doing a cut and paste to a new page, then placing redirect in predecessor. Is that a "bad"?Seasalt 13:14, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
Ah. Just so you know, doing a cut-and-paste is never a good idea, because it ruins the edit history. Instead, you should use the "Move page" function. DS 15:06, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
I found the deletion log link and saw Luigi30's discussion page, and the unanswered deletion queries. Without any explanation of why, or whether i've transgressed somehow, dont have much good faith. Any good as references? Special:Contributions/Seasalt Hope they're up to standard anyway. None of this is due to yourself. Thank you DS, for trying. Seasalt 15:36, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] re: your request for Content review of Ducati Pantah

I am going to decline your request to undelete this page since you created it by cut-and-pasting from another page. As I believe someone explained above, doing so destroys the attribution history. The full contents of the page can still be found in the history of the Pantah page. Please go back to that page, find the version you like best and save it as the current version. Then use the "move" button at the top of the page to move the contents to the new title.

I am declining to undelete the Ducati Pantah page because if I do so, the target location won't be empty and you won't be able to carry out your pagemove. Such cut-and-paste moves are routinely deleted in order to make room for a proper pagemove. (WP:CSD criterion G6 - housekeeping.) Someone probably should have explained that to you at the time, though.

By the way, I am also going to delete the page that you created at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ducati Pantah since the page was never really nominated for deletion discussion. Let me know if you need any more help. Rossami (talk) 00:14, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Procedures?

Hi Trident13, U blessed me with a comment once, and noting yr motorcycle interest, I wondered if u could tell me, or show me link to, the procedure for removal of a "cleanup-tone" from Ducati_999 placed by unregistered user using ip address 71.234,28.219 User_talk:71.234.28.219

You have done what I/most reasonable editors would do - placed a message on their talk page. Looking at the logs, I don't think you will get too quick an answer. The next option/done at the same time is to place a comment on the articles talk page - see if others agree: you might want to get others you know who have an interest in that area involved by dropping them a quick "hello/help please" message. If you leave it for a reasonable time (depends on the article - think at least a two weeks) then simply edit the page and remove the tag, and place an additional comment on the articles talk page that you responded to comments/had no comments, and so have removed'

Also noticed two MultiStrada stubs in Ducati....do u know merge procedure, by any chance?

Pick one page - the better named page, considering the encyclopedic context of Wiki. Take the text from the poor page, and merge it with the good page. This may mean the good text is on the badly named page, but the world ain't perfect! The issue with existing pages is that other pages link too them, so you now have two options: (1) find all the pages that link to it, change the wiki links to the new page, delete the unwanted page; or (2) remove all the text/categories from the bad page, and place Redirect text on the bad page to the chosen page. Most people consequently use the second option, and taking into account that some may type in the alternate, this covers more options. The redirect text is: #REDIRECT page name - ie: #REDIRECT Royal Tunbridge Wells. For the full deletion process, covering articles/categories/personal stub pages etc, read: Wikipedia:Deletion process

I thought the info in Ducati a bit sketchy, so have tried to make comprehensive. I've got three stubs filling out the history (on the spot personal response to "page too big' warning", but wondered if there was a different standard approach to that?

Simple! Remove some of the information to seperate pages (ie - seperate pages for: models; significant occurences/periods; technical details, etc). Then place wiki links in the original to those pages, named in a convention of "Original article (named relevant sub page)" - ie a page could be called "Ducati (List of Models)" Then place a piece of text in italics in the original article, which says: "For full coverage of (stub page issue), see (stub page) - ie: "For full list of Ducati models, see (Wiki linked) Ducati Models." Then reduce the text in that section of the main article to a few relevant lines/para's - think pub knowledge level/executive briefing, as opposed to the full coverage on the stub article. Have a look at the World War II page for an example of such procedures. And yes, it has a "Too long" tab on it at present! That's the problem with such a procedure - most new editors/anon's will add to the main article, rather than add their "highly important/but won't be seen by me mates" details to the stub. Only once you have experience (as you have) will such a choice come naturally as to what goes where

Too many questions already, but if u can offer any info on the above newbie queries it would be gratefully appreciated.Seasalt 11:47, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Happy to answer them - its always good to have a new quality editor on board who has good knowledge! You may not always get it right, but most will help those who ask questions/are humble and willing to work together. Best Regards, - Trident13 19:40, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] HRD and Vincent

Thanks for your message! I have placed two stub pages on your user page, which contain:

  • Your HRD article
  • A copy of my Vincent stub page

Stubs are better places to develop articles - you can play around much more, and you can add things and cut/edit heavily - which you can't do in the main article. To create a stub: edit your user page; copy the text I have used for the two above stubs, and create a new page - its location is before the | while its name is after. When you have done with the stub, and the text is in the new main article, delete it by placing the text db-owner (inside two sets of curly brackets) as the first line on the stub - it will then be deleted between 10mins/24hours later, and then remove the text from your user page by editing again.

Here's my comments re your question on my user page:

YES - Vincent needs a much better article: its worse than awful at present! The copyvio article: it was one of my early article revamps, and I didn't know exactly what I was doing, etc. Hence, a more experienced editor comes through and rightly calls copyvio. I re-wrote the article three times, taking all the fluff/editorial out, but (according to him) its still copy vio - hence why its still sat on my user page as a stub 3months later, rather than in the article. He says I still need to take more details out, but quite how you express technical details differently is another matter - anyone any idea on how to differently express Vtwin? As the company went down some time ago, various magazines/articles/books/internet sites have the same referenced details in the same order as they are now accepted they did happen - so I can't see how you can express those differently, rather than re-writing history: which is not wikipedic. I am happy to work on a new articles for both with you - for such a great bike it desperatly needs something much better. The HRD article needs trimming back, while the Vincent article on my stub page needs a review. If those work through, then perhaps we can work on some other motorcycle/transport areas, which are all lacking here if this is an encyclopedia. Best Regards, - Trident13 14:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
I was going to make some comments on your new Vincent article, but in the end (having thought a great deal) my conclusion was - it's so much better than what's there at present! One of the things I have learnt here, is that often its better to stick something up which others can add/engage with, than creating "the best" article possible - you never will, someone will always have a different view/perspective/inside track. Wiki is an engagement place as much as anything else, and to create the most appropriate article needs more than one editor to contribute. Let me know when you have updated it. Best Regards, - Trident13 10:52, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
It is in my nature to try for the best, even if i cannot reach it, and ppls will still find things to change and debate. I had a good learning experience filling the holes in my info. Its the older bikes I'm interested in mostly, and older cars. Came here for info, and ended up contributing. I hope I have not trampled yr project and offended with my detail. Thank you for tolerating the interference.Seasalt 13:00, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
Hey, don't worry - the Vincent article when I came here looked awful! Still does, and if your version gets accepted, then goal achieved. I am sure others will nip by and add/change things - people always do here, hence my comment that its often better to put a good article up than a perfect one, much as though you must always try to achieve that! You have not offened at all, and its fun to engage with someone who enjoys the same things as I do. Look after yourself - Best Regards, - Trident13 13:07, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
Update the HRD article - make sure they tie together. The Douglas article looks great - I am still on the lookout for a Dragonfly, which is this years target purchase. I have four bikes at present - 56 GoldenFlash, 73 Triumph Trident, 78 Norton Commando, and a 98 Vespa ET4 Scooter. Rgds, - Trident13 13:33, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Douglas

We had a bit of a clash there but I decided to merge to your plural Douglas (motorcycles) version because when I looked at other motorcycle articles that use the suffix I see that most use the plural not the singular. I know you are a relatively new user (since June) but I would advise you to try and finish the job of editing by wikifying the articles and quoting sources inline. You might want to look more closely at other article to see how that is done. I copyedited the article and did some wikification on your text but you should quote the verifiable sources for your edits or at least put external links in the article. I would especially like to see a source for the dirt track model comment as indicated by the fact tag. If you wish to reply do so here as I will watch this page for a few days at least. Thanks and cheers. ww2censor 05:15, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Well a dropbears article may be more a vernacular history and not "definitive". I've added it to the article.Seasalt 05:33, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

That was a quick source reference addition. Thanks Are you up early or up late? I am late and must sleep now. Cheers ww2censor 05:34, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

East Coast, Australia, 3:37 pm. Seasalt 05:36, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Rudge-Whitworth (motorcycles) Have a check over if u vont.Seasalt 07:07, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] re: Vandalism

You did the right thing by reverting that vandalism. That is, unfortunately, a fairly common form of vandalism. And our Help pages are unfortunately very common targets. I reviewed the anon user's contribution history. While it's not encouraging, I don't see enough of a pattern to justify blocking the vandal yet. But we should all keep an eye on this user. Thanks for helping with the clean-up. Rossami (talk) 13:00, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Generally, just revert and clean-up. I also tend to click over to the anon's user page and scan their recent contributions. Often when a vandal starts on one page, they will do many others in rapid succession. If it's a half-dozen or less, just clean it up. You should also consider leaving one of the escalating "test" series warnings on the user's Talk page.
{{test1}}, {{test2}}, {{test3}}, {{test4}}, {{test5}}.
As a non-admin, you can't really leave level 5 because you couldn't block the vandal and you should be cautious about applying level 4 since it might be perceived as an empty threat. But you can leave any of the others as you see appropriate.
If you see a serious pattern of vandalism by the vandal - dozens of edits all vandalism over a very short period of time, report it at Wikipedia:Vandalism in progress. Thanks again for helping to protect the project. Rossami (talk) 14:09, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Posting links

I noticed that when you post wikilinks that you use the text from the URL address that include an underscore (_) for spaces instead of the actual page title that uses spaces where there are any. You might try doing that in future, like User talk:Seasalt/Project Motorcycles rather than User_talk:Seasalt/Project_Motorcycles. Cheers ww2censor 18:05, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Project

Already working hard promoting the project I see!!! You must like my banner too. I'm going to bed now. Cheers ww2censor 04:41, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Category tags for motorcycles

Saw your user talk to me on my user page. I started a discussion topic at Category talk:Motorcycles#Category tags -- Manufacturers of X. Why don't we continue there? -- Brianhe 06:26, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Royal enfield

I have added some comments at Talk:Royal Enfield/Comments. I am not too good at reviewing to provide you a more detailed one. You can request, User:Ambuj.Saxena, User:Taxman and User:Nichalp to name a few, to provide a better review. Regards, Ganeshk (talk) 06:00, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] advertising in royal enfield

On the Royal Enfield page, the section Royal Enfield Customs looks like thinly disguised advertising? I noticed the spam adverising interest, and don't know procedure for ads, so, could you check it out and act on it, if appropriate?Seasalt 09:48, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

I would agree! There are some rules and guidelines re external links here at Wiki, but basically it can be summarised as a link to the subject of the article (ie - in a Bio the Bio's subject; in the case of a place or thing the same) AND OPTIONALLY anything that adds more information to a reader of the article, which is (normally) non-commercial. The problem (from a personal perspective) is that applying the rules by the letter of the guidelines excludes some real knowledgable enthusiasts/fans - see the Elton John page or many of the Ducati pages, particularly the Ducati Paso which is input directly by their club secretary. Some enthusiasts write to show their knowledge and publish their site - there is a link to a Brazilian fansite on the Elton John site which adds little direct value, but the guy added greatly to the article. In the case of motorcycle articles, I think there is a case for adding commercial websites IF they add technical details - there is an example on the Enfield page, where a link is commercial but the owner has said where to find the additional information.
You've got me a bit confused there. Was the section Royal_Enfield#Royal_Enfield_Customs that links to commercial site http://www.royalenfieldusa.com/ in "Sources", written by someone who has contributed a lot to the article? How does that connect with external links?Seasalt 09:09, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
Sorry! In my haste, just looked at external links - that section is too biased/commercial and way over POV. We are only an encyclopdia, not a version of Yell.com - however wonderful they think they are! I will look at a complete review in the next few days. Rgds, - Trident13 09:12, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Spelling error

Thank you for fixing the spelling error in my BMW R60/2 page.

User talk:Jeff dean 0654 MST, 9 November 2006

[edit] Sources - 1935 Isle of Man TT Races

I have included two sources for the 1935 Isle of Man TT Races as you requested. There are others sources for the Isle of Man TT Races which account for the information which was meant for a general historical narrative for the "1930's."

Other information that could be included/expanded are as follows-

Stanley Woods move to Moto Guzzi.

Race date, number of laps and length (including average speed in kph.)

Practice information.

The 1935 Isle of Man TT Races was the background for the filming of the George Formby Film "No Limit."

Expansion of the 1935 Senior TT Race race information as it is seen as one of the most important races after the 1967 Senior TT Race.

The alterations to the Isle of Man Mountain Course 1935/1936 which includes the major work completed at Balig Bridge. Other improvements include the Glen Helen area, but this may be 1936-1937.

The 1935 Lightweight TT Race has H.G.Tyrell Smith in second place and nationality is give as British. I think Tyrell Smith was born in Co Dublin(?)

Other Areas of Isle of Man TT Races. I have included a small number of course points on the Isle of Man TT Course where they can be linked to other Isle of Man Geographical stubs. This includes, Birkins Bend, Signpost Corner, Union Mills and Handleys Corner. There is a list in the Snaefell Mountain Course description and perhaps the following could be expanded;-

Bray Hill

Quaterbridge

Balig Bridge

Laurel Bank

Glen Helen

11th Milestone/Drinkwater's Bend

Rhencullen 1 & 2/(Birkins Bend/"Moly's Drop")

Stonebreakers Hut/Black Hut

Les Graham Memorial/(Bungalow Bridge)

The Bungalow

TT Grandstand and TT Scoreboard

Other area's that I have mentioned before are articles about the Clypse Course and the St.Johns Short Course. The 1949 Isle of Man TT Races do not include the clubmen results. The TT Race winners has missed some TT riders including some side-car winners.

Sorry, rather alot to included. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Agljones (talk • contribs)

As Agljones says there are lots of details that can be expanded on. We just need to get good sources, so if you are using a newspaper or book please make sure to quote it correctly in the page that you use it for and on each page for each instance. The George Formby movie used to be showing every year an a cinema in Douglas. I wonder if that is still the case as it was in the 1960s and early 1970s when I used to go to the TT. I did look for some sources for the movie but did not find anything useful some time ago. Regarding Stanley Woods' move to Moto Guzzi, that is mentioned on his page. Yes, the Clubman race details should indeed be included. So there is much work to be done even on the existing pages much less starting new ones but lets keep on working as quickly or slowly as we can. ww2censor 14:31, 11 November 2006 (UTC)


You are correct Agljones, H G Tyrrel Smith was an Irish motorcycle racer. Found it in some German race results. Thank you for the 1935 sources. This H G Tyrrel Smith was quite a winner, but have not found anything biographical on the net. I do not know the IOM course, so could not comment on the shortcomings or otherwise. Feel free to fill in or correct the details. Seasalt 14:04, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
I don't know H G Tyrrel Smith but might ask some of my friends in Dublin. I don't recall his name during 35 years in living in Ireland and being around motorcycles and vintage car people quite a bit. ww2censor 14:36, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

According to German motorcycle Grand Prix, "Henry Tyrrell-Smith" is an Irish rider. Seasalt 11:16, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

I found some details about H G Tyrell Smith in the practice report from the TT Special edited by G.S.Davison for the 1950 Isle of Man TT Races. It gave the details that Tyrell Smith was born in Co Dublin(?)and studied at Trinty College Dublin for a Bsc degeree. In the late 1930's he worked for Excellisor motor-cycle company and joined the British Army at the outbreak of war and served in the D-Day landings in a REME workshop.

The film rights to the George Formby Film No Limit have been owned for sometime by Douglas Corporation in the Isle of Man. I think the film No Limit was last shown by Manx National Heritage in 1996 in their small cinema. (Agljones 12:56, 14 November 2006 (UTC))

Good info! Everything I could find is here- User:Seasalt/VincentSeasalt 13:15, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Henry Tyrrell Smith

Sorry, I don't have any info about him. The spelling is from here - Racing Memory

Best of luck with your research! Readro 13:55, 14 November 2006 (UTC)