Talk:Sean Penn

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[edit] Reason for divorce?

Didn't Madonna divorce Penn alleging spousal abuse? If so, I think it should be mentioned in the article. —Frecklefoot 16:09, 26 Sep 2003 (UTC)

  • Not sure about this, but I do think something about his relationship with Madonna should be mentioned. —Ohyeahmormons 13
    47, 5 Mar 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Filmography

Anyone care to trim the filmography down to "Notable Movies" or "Selected Filmography"? The list is a bit longish and is just duplicated on the IMDb. —Frecklefoot 16:09, 26 Sep 2003 (UTC)

>>>Critics pointed out that despite being a champion of liberal causes, Penn was driving a older, less fuel-efficient model of his vehicle, and his gun ownership suggests a broad interpretation of the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution, which has come under liberal scrutiny.<<<

This is not NPOV. —Preceding unsigned comment added by The lorax (talk • contribs) 23:37, 1 March 2004

Well, it's at least weasel terms. --ESP 01:25, 2 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Instead of just slapping an NPOV header on this, why not work at making it better? RickK 02:36, 2 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I slimmed down the paragraph about the gun incident. I'm going to pull the NPOV statement, and it can be put back in if someone finds a problem with it. --ESP 23:02, 2 Mar 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Conflict

I believe there's a conflict in the date sean penn received the "best actor" award. under his picture written he received it in 2004 but if you enter that link under the pic: Best Actor, you can see he won it in 2003. what's the right year? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.178.125.174 (talk • contribs) 20:54, 28 August 2005

Penn was named the Best Actor for 2003. But he received this Award at the Oscar ceremony in 2004. (JosephASpadaro 06:47, 12 May 2007 (UTC))

[edit] False Quotes

In the Quotes section, someone put in ""Last year I went to Iraq. Before Team America showed up, it was a happy place. They had flowery meadows and rainbow skies, and rivers made of chocolate, where the children danced and laughed and played with gumdrop smiles. " -- Sean Penn after visting Iraq". This is not a real quote but is a line from the movie Team America so it should be deleted or noted.Unklelemmy 00:18, 7 September 2005 (UTC)unklelemmy

[edit] Paparazzi material

Do those shots of him boating really contribute to the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.158.96.47 (talk • contribs) 18:06, 8 September 2005

I agree. Both the pictures and to a lesser degree the wording do not add anything to the article. They appear more as an attack on him then information.--Unklelemmy 21:58, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

The information appears to be true (see link below,) but that seems more like Wikinews material, if anything. On the other hand, tons of articles on celebrities are filled with this sort of personal life nonsense. I saw some footage on TV of him wading around - he wasn't wearing the flak jacket the whole time. With the number of shootings, it seems perfectly reasonable attire. http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=59983 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.158.96.47 (talk • contribs) 04:42, 9 September 2005

[edit] Paparazzi material, my take on it.

This is my first time posting here, and I am going to charge ahead like a bull in a china shop to include the following: http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/articles/PA_NEWA12843661125997597A0?source=PA%20Feed&ct=5 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.129.60.48 (talk • contribs) 19:14, 9 September 2005

[edit] Where's the beef?

I see that it's claimed that he rescued 40 people, but I haven't seen a link to any reliable source that confirms that. Here's another view of his rescue effort that points out (among other things) that he loaded his boat down with an entourage that included his personal photographer. Of course, if you're going to rescue people, it's always important to have someone around to photograph the event I guess: http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,16494464%5E1702,00.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.96.168.119 (talk • contribs) 19:16, 12 September 2005

I'm also sceptical of the pro-Sean claims. Andjam 02:43, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
Many of the edits to the page that were deleted due to NPOV "vandalism" were simply factual corrections to what was essentially already an unbalanced entry. In the future, please refrain from deleting additions to articles that present a more balanced picture, as opposed to wildly unsubstantiated claims of Superman like rescues. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.251.97.180 (talk • contribs) 06:46, 4 November 2005
Not being a lazy coward isn't the same as being Superman. The claims are substantiated no matter what right wing scumballs say. -- Jibal 09:53, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

I'd hardly call a Rupert Murdoch owned paper a solid source. Every anti-Penn story in the Katrina aftermath originated from one of Murdoch's papers. Do the research. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Googuse (talk • contribs) 05:11, 29 October 2005

"Although Penn was praised for his rescue efforts, he was also criticized for bringing along a cameraman and Rolling Stone magazine reporter Matt Taibbi to document the event". This has been shown several times in the months since Katrina to be untrue -- mere sneering from the conservative media and bloggers. (They also claimed his boat had sunk.) FWIW, take a look at "Citizen Penn" by John Lahr in The New Yorker, 3 April 2006, p. 48-59. Good article, not special pleading for Penn, and I've never known Lahr (an excellent and experienced reporter) to have been taken for a ride. The best source I'm personally aware of for the number of people in whose rescues Penn was involved is James Carville. (A Democrat, of course, which will automatically disqualify him to many as a source, I'm sure.) By the way: Why don't all you people register, and then sign your posts? --Michael K. Smith 16:45, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

All I saw of Penn during Katrina doing a publicity stunt and his boat sinking.

[edit] Of Italian descent

It was interesting to come to this page and learn he's partly of Italian descent. I recall back in the 1980s, Madonna said that if she squinted her eyes he bore a slight resemblance to her father (Silvio Ciccone). I now see why. -- Andrew Parodi 13:27, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

This shouldn't be a huge part of the article like it is. If you look at it, He is less than or just about a quarter Italian. His mother is half Italian, half Irish, his father was Lithuanian, Russian and Spanish. That would make Penn only a quarter or less Italian. Thank God. -Izzo

[edit] What is this Sean Penn article, anyway?

Is he an actor, or a politician? --67.189.188.122 16:20, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

I think he sees himself as both. He might find it difficult to run for office though, considering all the terrible things he has done to others in his private life.

He may see himself as both, but if he's a "politician", so is George Clooney, Alec Baldwin, Barbara Streisand, and every other actor/actress who likes to complain about Bush. If he gets elected to office, he's a politician. Until then, no. Zchris87v 06:02, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
I'd say he is more of a political activist then a politician. With his trips to many countries who are on stressed levels of diplomacy with the US and his knack for interjecting himself into many political situations clearly shows he is heavily involved in politics. As such I believe his politics are a very important part of his biography. Elhector 23:05, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
He is what he is, and whatever that is, it's better than what his detractors are. -- Jibal 09:56, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

He is, initially a Hollywood actor. --::semper fidelis:: 19:50, 19 May 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fleurbutterfly (talk • contribs)

[edit] Removal from career section

"One of his competitors for that Oscar was Bill Murray who was so clearly devastated that he did not win for his performance in Lost in Translation that the presenter also asked the audience to clap for Murray."

This just isn't relevant to his career. Maybe put it under a trivia section??

[edit] Height?

Do we really need verifiable sources for little things such as a person's height? -WarthogDemon 04:52, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Absolutely, all information should be as accurate as possible and verified with a reference, someone could put in that he's 6'. If a reliable source isn't found soon I'd be inclined to remove the height information. --Bansal 16:20, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
Okay. I just wasn't sure as height can change (like with young actors) so it could possibly be hard to track (as far as I know.) Thanks for clarifying. -WarthogDemon 18:24, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Notable Films

Any reason why his role in Mystic River, for which he won an Academy Award for Best Actor, isn't considered "notable"? -- GregChant 03:52, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Katrina

There was also much derision locally (New Orleans) about Penn's much ballyhooed rescue attempt. 1st it is well noted that he and his publicity entourage, film crew and photographers, overloaded the small boat that he was in. The observers cleaimed that the "rescues" were actually walk to the high ground in ankle deep water from across the street type. Meanwhile the governor of Louisiana did not allow over 200 experienced boat handlers access to rescue those who were actually stranded in high water. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.207.229.34 (talk) 16:28, 11 February 2007 (UTC).

What is well known is that these are lies by cowardly blowhards. -- Jibal 09:58, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ancestry

About Sean's father, Leo, his parents were Spanish. They were of Russian and Lithuanian descent, but none the less they were born and raised in Spain. In turn, Leo was fluent in Spanish. My family is Mexican of German descent, but we consider ourselves Mexican, even if we still carry our German surname, Hirsch. I just think that we should concentrate more on his Spanish roots on his father's side if anything.

You know, the professional asshole is vandalism, but... I'll leave it there. 72.66.78.170 02:37, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Political Social Issues

On April 19, 2007, Penn appeared on The Colbert Report and had a metaphor off vs. Stephen Colbert that was judged by Robert Pinsky. This stemmed from some of Penn's criticisms of President Bush.ripper 13:34, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Grandparents

I was reading the Sean Penn article, and it doesn't seem to make sense, at least the early life section. It says that his grandparents were Elizabeth Melincoff and Maurice Daniel Penn. It later states the Penn was originally Piñon. I checked out the source, and it's not what I would call "reliable". It list his parents and grandparents names, sure, but it's just really all over the place. I'll look into it a little bit more before deleting it. Cariis1989 00:53, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Controversial comment

In an interview at the peace rally, he gave a controversial comment saying, "If the United States has nuclear weapons, then why can't Iran have nuclear weapons?". Penn was heavily criticized by conservatives after he made the comment

I have one question: to whom is this comment controversial? It's clear that who wrote this has any idea that the English edition of wikipedia is read by a LOT of non-Americans. To them, it's hardly controversial what Penn said.201.19.222.35 01:36, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Seriously? Iran can have nuclear weapons - this is non-controversial to most of the world? Kevinp2 18:47, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
I'd have to agree with Kevinp2. Iran in general is controversial to most of the world because of there denial of the holocaust, call to push israel into the ocean, and also because of the nuclear weapon issue. Also, a lot of people all over the world are completely against the use and possession of any nuclear weapons by any country. If there is a good source for that quote I'd say it's more than appropriate to place it in the article. Elhector 23:06, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
Penn didn't say that Iran can have nuclear weapons. The rhetorical question is, if one nation which has used nuclear weapons, is the world's biggest weapons exporter, invades numerous countries and wages numerous overt and covert wars, kills hundreds of thousands, and is considered a dangerous rogue nation by much of the world can have nuclear weapons, then why can't Iran. It's rather thick to interpret that as saying it's ok for Iran to have nuclear weapons. Also, no one said it was inappropriate to place the quote in the article -- it's the editorial characterization of the quote as being controversial that was questioned. Readers don't need to be told what is or is not controversial. If the statement resulted in controversy, then cite it. -- Jibal 10:05, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
Even if it was a "rehetorical" question I'd still say it's controversial. If he was asking based on a belief that "if one nation which has used nuclear weapons, is the world's biggest weapons exporter, invades numerous countries and wages numerous overt and covert wars, kills hundreds of thousands, and is considered a dangerous rogue nation by much of the world can have nuclear weapons, then why can't Iran." then it's clearly still controversial as the reasoning behind asking the rehetorical question is controversial. That being said, we would need to find some sort of reliable source saying it caused a controversy, or that it was controversial enough to be noteworthy. So I leave it back to the original editor that suggested the quote be included in the article to find the source for it. If no source can be found outside of just saying Sean Penn said this then it should probably be left out. Celebrities with agendas say all kinds of insane things like this all the time. Unless it's proven to be noteworthy I'd say leave it out for now. Wikipedia doesn't need to become a log of every idiotic thing celebreties mutter. Elhector 17:59, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
Sigh. It is so much work dealing with thick people. That it's a rhetorical question doesn't have anything to do with it being controversial, it has to do with kevinp2's typically misrepresentative interpretation of what Penn said. As for what you would say about whether it's controversial -- it's irrelevant (and so fortunately I don't have to address your misfired attempt at reasoning); Wikipedia isn't a repository for editors' opinions. And you continue to confuse the issues of whether the statement needs a citation -- yes, of course -- with the characterization of it as controversial -- which also needs to be cited as the opinion of some notable party, not a Wikipedia editor. -- Jibal 09:54, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
Wow… Ok, if you go back and read what I wrote, I’m pretty much agreeing with you. You stated that the quote doesn’t belong unless a source can be found “with the characterization of it as controversial -- which also needs to be cited as the opinion of some notable party, not a Wikipedia editor.” If you read my comment I stated “we would need to find some sort of reliable source saying it caused a controversy, or that it was controversial enough to be noteworthy” in order for the quote to be included in the article. My statement and your statement are pretty much in line with each other. I am fully aware my personal opinion of whether or not it’s controvesial statement really means nothing as far as what should be included in the article. That’s pretty much infered in the tone of my comment. I’m not really sure why you feel the need to attack myself and user:Kevinp2 in your comment, it’s unconstructive. You call me “thick” even though I’m of the same opinion as you for including the quote. You then move on to attack Kevinp2 by classifying his interpertations as misrepresentitive. The entire point of my comment was to state that this should not be included because there should be no “interpreting” of what someone meant in a biographical Wikipedia article. The sources for the quote should tell the story, which seems like a far stretch on this one thus my suggestion to leave the quote out of the article. I guess I just don’t understand how you can call my reasoning “misfired” and call me “thick” when I’m on the same page as you. I’m trying to look at this thing from a purely encyclopedic standpoint, you seem to be allowing your personal opinions and feelings to get a hold of you in this forum. Elhector 17:57, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
You didn't understand a word I said ... which is consistent with my characterization. Oh well, it's moot. -- Jibal (talk) 06:36, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

I found one mention of this statement on a right wing blog that claims Penn made the statement in 2005 -- not January 24, 2007 as claimed in the WP article. A piece in the SF Chronicle from Aug 23, 2005 quotes Penn: For better and worse, U.S. is a role model ... Not only is "America does it" a blind justification for harassment, fingerprinting and nuclear technology in Iran, it is also rooted in the culture of the country as a kind of aspiration.... As the sentiment there is nearly the opposite of the quote, it seems very unlikely that Penn made the statement attributed to him in the WP article, so I'm removing it. It can be restored if someone finds a reliable citation. -- Jibal 10:33, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Piñon

How can Sean Penn's descendants be from Russia and Lithuania and have a Spanish surname? Is it just me or does that seem to make no sense? And I agree with Cariss1989 who posted before me, the source is not reliable. 71.214.8.124 19:00, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Incorrect quote

Under personal life it quotes him as saying " we have a bad marriage ..." This is incorrect, therefore I'm deleting the quote. kc12286 (talk) 01:45, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Glenn Beck

Dude, that's awesome! I love Glenn Beck! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.26.68.146 (talk) 17:00, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

While I would wholeheartedly agree that Sean Penn is a third-rate actor posing as a jounalist as Beck said, let's keep the "Donald Duck College of Iraq" remarks out of the article. I mean, just because Sean Penn is lowering himself to the levels of the drive-by media doesn't mean that we Glenn Beck listeners must as well. Don't mistake this as a defense of Penn (personally I think that pond scum has more worth than he does), but as a defense of Wikipedia. Flag-Waving American Patriot (talk) 22:23, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

I like Glenn Beck too, but this seems rather childish. Fortunately, aside from the near-universal scorn that he already has on the interweb, there isn't much they can do to retaliate. 130.111.16.108 (talk) 15:39, 22 January 2008 (UTC)