Talk:Seamus Heaney/Vote

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

eh it's londonderry.look at a map, look at roadsigns. people may not like it, but they're the facts. mr phair84.64.199.24 16:27, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reverts

Guys, discuss this out like adults and come to a consensus. Have a poll if you like. File an RfC. But stop the reversions or I'm going to protect the article. -- Essjay · Talk 01:47, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Vote for Londonderry. Seeing this dispute with (I hope) an unbiased mind, I realise its potential for raising emotions. However, surely the issue regarding this article is consistency within Wikipedia. It has been agreed that the relevant Wikipedia article should be called County Londonderry, not County Derry, so all cross-references should reflect this. If anyone feels that County Londonderry or other articles are mis-named, this should be debated on their talk pages, not here. I am intrigued that Mr Swine seems to claim that he made his edit under personal "orders of Seamus Heaney" himself. It would be fascinating to see the documentary evidence for this. 86.134.163.2 11:31, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Vote for Londonderry. I entirely agree with the previous User, except that my compromise suggestion seems to have been lost. Happy to reinstate it if people want. Poetlister 14:36, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Vote for Derry/Doire. It is far more common name than the other one. Mr.Heaney is a Catholic, Nationalist. He would have it as Derry. If it is kept as L'Deery, I will change the name of Dingle article to An Daingeann.--Play Brian Moore 15:55, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

I don't care what we call the place so I'm not voting, but Mr. Swine, could you please read WP:POINT? Demiurge 16:12, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Vote for Londonderry: So, Mr. Swine, why don't you also threaten to alter Dublin to Baile Átha Cliath and Michael Collins to Micheál Ó Coileáin? That would show some consistency. And Mr. Swine, don't forget to alter the Londonderry Air to the Derry Air. 204.155.226.9 21:04, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Vote for Londonderry, in line with previous concensus reached, and for consistency with other WP articles as previously noted. Mr Swine / Fenian Swine / Brian Moore / Muc Fíníneach, whoever you are, you do need to read WP:POINT as Demiurge suggested. --204.196.142.41 11:44, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

because Michael Collins was not baptised Micheál Ó Coileáin you genius and the Irish government has not changed Dublin's name as yet but they did change dingle to an Daingeann. You people really are too smart for your own good. Ever heard of PR. There are far more british wikipedians here than Irish which makes this vote useless. Also for anyone who is confused, I am one user Fenian Swine with the nickname Play Brian Moore. That seems fairly clear or does it?--Play Brian Moore 19:50, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

Also - Can ip user votes be counted?

More importantly, can sockpuppet votes be counted? Looks like Mr Tunney is a sockpuppet of Mr Swine - read their edits to this page and the edit history of these users, language, interests etc. It looks like Mr Tunney has been brought out of retirement for this debate. See also the newly created Category:Irish Republican Wikipedians [1] where he then adds himself and Mr Tunney on their respective user pages: [2] [3][4] [5] --204.196.142.41 06:43, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

that dosent answer my question. I think you will find that david or Davetunney had an account before me so he could'nt be my sockpuppet. Anyway i cant seem to find your user page mr.ip user so create one or stop.--Play Brian Moore 19:30, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Vote for Doire/Derry As per above Tunney 21:26, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

Mr Swine: Why do you call Michael Collins Micheál Ó Coileáin on your User page? Either you prefer that name, or at least think that he did (so you should rename the article) or you don't (so you should amend your user page). The Wikipedia article on Dublin says "Baile Átha Cliath (or simply Átha Cliath) and Dubhlinn are the two names of the city, the former being the one currently in official use." If that's wrong, please amend the article. As a matter of interest, who is the Brian Moore you refer to? The English rugby player? The English sports commentator? Or the anti-Catholic novelist? Poetlister 21:51, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

The novelist probably wins because he once said that Ireland was "a nation of masturbators under priestly instruction." Incorrect, of course, but I think it's a toss up between all 3 :)) --204.196.142.41 06:54, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

sorry your wrong again.Dublin's official name is Dublin. Its Irish name is Baile Átha Cliath but that is not its official name according to the Irish government who I think control Dublin. I have every right to call Michael Collins what I like but he was not baptised Micheál Ó Coileáin so it's not his name. Do you you understand that? It seems basic to me! Finally Brian Moore is the English soccer commentator who commentated on the Ireland, England game at the European soccer championships in 1988, a game which Ireland won 1-0 thanks to a Ray Houghton{scottish) goal. On fantasy football league(which is also mentioned on my user page) frank skinner(an English person who I like.SHOCK!HORROR!) and david badiel did a skit of the goal with Ray. As the skit begins Ray Houghton says the line 'Play Brian Moore' and Brian Moore's commentary begins. They released a dvd in 2005 and this skit is on the dvd. If you wish to buy it it costs about 20 punt or Irish pounds, if you will.--Play Brian Moore 19:27, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

So the Wikipedia article on Dublin is wrong? Will anyone correct it? And where can I get any "punt or Irish pounds" now Ireland uses the Euro? Poetlister 21:36, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

where did I say the article on Dublin is wrong. They still accept punt in my local potato shop.<sarcasm> When did they bring in the euro?<sarcatic question> Do they use euro in Derry?<sarcastic question> Also you can get them in the Central Bank of Ireland on College Green in special books. Are you happy enough with Brian Moore explanation? You seem to be running out of intelligent questions: ). You people are all the same.--Play Brian Moore 21:43, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

I quoted the Wikipedia article on Dublin. It says "Baile Átha Cliath (or simply Átha Cliath) and Dubhlinn are the two names of the city, the former being the one currently in official use." Thus according to the article, Dublin is not now the, or even an, official name. Mr Swine, however, says that Dublin is the official name. I leave others to judge whether or not this disagreement with the article amounts to a statement that the article is wrong. And just for the record, David Badiel prefers to call himself David Baddiel. Poetlister 22:23, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Im sorry about my disgracefully illiterate spelling attempt. Its funny i thought the people of county londonderry preferred to call their county Derry but foreign governments have decided against that. Also the opening line of the Dublin page is Dublin (Irish: Baile Átha Cliath1),is the capital and largest city of the Republic of Ireland. Where does it say anything about Dubhlinn being the official name.--Play Brian Moore 22:33, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Read footnote No 1 Brian Fenian Swine, it's there. Baile Átha Cliath (or simply Átha Cliath) is said to be the one currently in official use, not Dubhlinn - cheers. --Meiers Twins 07:52, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Vote for Londonderry We have to use Mumbai, Zimbabwe, Sri Lanka, and so on, as the new names, so let's use Londonderry until such time as the Irish win it back from the British. The article makes it quite clear that Heaney would call it Derry, nevertheless that is a separate point. Perhaps we could refrain from abuse in the discussion while we're at it? I want to see both sides put their accusations of masturbation verifiably beyond use. Brequinda 10:09, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

It refers to the county and not the city, hence Londonderry is the accurate name, at the moment. Not that the county exists in an administrative sense, mind... --Kiand 22:08, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

"County Londonderry" (do not count this as a vote - its foregone, by article name) was the legal name of the county during its existance as an administrative county until 1973 in Northern Ireland, currently the ceremonial county, County Londonderry also exists. I am inclined to agree with Demiurge on this one, wikipedians should not raise matters just to prove a point - the article naming of City of Derry and County Londonderry are foregone conclusions and wikipedians should respect this. It is sufficent to point to the fact that Heaney was born in County Londonderry, as for the city, thats a different matter and has being voted for on Talk:Derry many times. Djegan 22:27, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

I'm not disputing the fact that NI is part of the UK(for now). And that the UK has named the county L-Derry. All I'm saying is that if Mr.Heaney was to write an autobiography he would call his home county Derry, as he did in his nobel prize acceptance speech. For example it says Derry on the Martin McGuinness page and I assumed this is because he is Nationalist and he would call his home county Derry also.

Please do not attempt to present the city and county as one - that is unhelpful and disengenous - because you and I know the difference (i assume your irish, like me), whilst others do not. And by all means quote his acceptance speach verbatim. Djegan 22:51, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Seamus Heaney, December 7th, 1995 when I was the eldest child of an ever-growing family in rural Co. Derry. This was retreaved from here. BTW, I am Irish from Baile na nGábhair as stated on my user page. Also I never attempted to present the city and county as one.--Play Brian Moore 22:58, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Vote for Londonderry The county article is County Londonderry, the city article is Derry, with appropriate redirects to each. Seems to me that the status quo is a balanced compromise. The point is also made in the article that Heaney himself regards it as County Derry, though the wording could do with a bit of tweaking to distinguish between city and county. --Meiers Twins 08:07, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Londonderry. There are a lot more articles referencing the city and the county than this one, so it is not reasonable to open up the Derry/Londonderry naming dispute again without an exceptionally good reason, which this isn't. We have an uneasy truce that the city shall be Derry and the county shall be Londonderry. There is equality of misery (and happiness but, hey, this is Ireland so we'll ignore that) on both sides. It's a compromise. It's not perfect. But it allows us to get along without resorting to the armalite again. --Red King 12:15, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

There is equality of misery (and happiness but, hey, this is Ireland so we'll ignore that) on both sides. Actually it is british people who are argueing against me so this is no Irish Civil war or anything. It is called Derry by Irish people. Anyway does no one agree that if Mr.Heaney calls it Derry then it should be called Derry on his page here?--Play Brian Moore 15:58, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Actually I am Irish and think that your are fighting a loosing and pointless battle and moreover I support the status quo of "City of Derry" and "County Londonderry". You should find better things to do than posturing on naming, if Irish editors supported your claim they would line up to support you. Djegan 17:44, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Wow!! a whole one Irish person(s) supports the wrong name.The only reason peole don't line up to support me is because I have a bad name around this community. Many people find me ignorant and abusive and they would not like to be seen to be supporting me. But I think any normal Irish person knows thtat I'm right but they won't want to upset any british wiki goers. It's Derry. Thtat is what is used by all people in their conversations about Derry. Does anyone have any comment on the fact that Seamus calls it Derry himself?--Play Brian Moore 22:54, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Make that two. And I could call Dublin "Arseville" and it still wouldn't end up being the term used on an article about me. The CITY is Derry, the COUNTY is Londonderry, and thats the way it always has been on here, and thats the way its going to remain. --Kiand 07:34, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Personallly, I think that the City Derry, County Londonderry is a silly compromise cooked up to "please" two conflicting POVs. However, there is a consensus of sorts behind it, so in the interest of keeping conflict out of this place, it's best to go with the flow. Filiocht | The kettle's on 08:28, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

I'm another. But as a way forward, if FW/PBM can find a Heaney text to quote, where he (Heaney) uses the term "County Derry", then nobody sensible is going to revert that. But the surrounding text will stay as County Londonderry becuase that's the only way we avoid a permanent revert war. --Red King 10:22, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Fenian Swine, are you surprised that, in your own words, you "have a bad name around this community" and many people find you "ignorant and abusive"? You have been banging on about this since 8 September. It must be clear to you by now that there is no concensus in support of your suggestion. We don't win all arguments in life, please learn from this, it is time to move on now, please. --204.196.142.41 20:08, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Nah I dont trust ip user's who vadilise user pages and are'nt from Ireland. Heaney used Derry in his Nobel Prize speech as I already showed . Im afraid I cant learn from this. Im too much of a stubborn c*nt. Also Kiand it wont always be the wrong way. Paisley dies, IRA comes back, Ireland unites and county Derry is rightfully renamed. Your a GDA anyway.--Play Brian Moore 22:33, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

I'm not. I live here, I'm from Donegal, which is a hell of a lot more Ulster than most of the people on here who push POV, and indeed, than you. --Kiand 22:35, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

My real name is Kian (or Cian) Duffy, and I'm a student from Maynooth, near Dublin, Ireland. Which part of Donegal is Maynooth in then?--Play Brian Moore 22:48, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

I say from because I've lived here way too long to bother putting an explanation in, thats why. What part of Northern Ireland is Goatstown in then? Or are you one of these people who 'wants it back' despite never having even been close to it? --Kiand 22:51, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Goatstown is'nt in The North. Its in Dublin, you know the capital of the Republic of Ireland .never tried to claim I was from Ulster(9 counties). Sorry Iif I don't like Brits in my country. Honestly I could'nt be more sorry if I tried.--Play Brian Moore 22:55, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

You used a term implying a Dublin or Dublin suburban resident in a perogative sense to attempt to dilute one of my arguments, as if you yourself did not fall under one of those banners. Thats pretty similar to claiming you're not from the area in question. --23:02, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Difference is that you claimed to be from Ulster(9 counties). I never did. All I did was show that you say you are from Leinster on your user page not Ulster.Kapish.--Play Brian Moore 23:08, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

• FS, you've been talking to yourself again on your other talk page. Is Tunney coming to help you with the same stale arguments and abusive edit summaries? Give it up and let's move on. --204.196.142.41 06:49, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

What are you on about. David Tunney is not me .Are you stupid or just ignorant. Check ip address' and you will see he is not me. He lives near me, I know him but that does not make me him. And my arguments are world class. A lot of my good questions have not been answered, they have been overlooked. Anyway what does all this have to do with Irish Fenian, Seamus Heaney?--Play Brian Moore 10:06, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

FS, I am both stupid and ignorant, but much is now clear. You are either the same person or a school buddy of his, both being 15 yrs old, with similar and co-ordinated posts. Apologies for the "West-Brit" stance, but the name County Londonderry will remain with the status quo here on Wikipedia. Your only valid argument is that Heaney himself refers to the County as Derry; that is already reflected in the article. Your other questions have been fully addressed. Time to move on.

Have a nice day in Goatstown, and please stop abusing and insulting the WP community. I wish you well in your endeavours, however short lived they may be. --204.196.142.41 21:17, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

Right so then we are clear that Im not Tunney. BTW Im 16 not 15. Also where did I abuse and insult the WP community.--Play Brian Moore 22:22, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Protected

Obvously "stop the reversions or I'm going to protect the article" wasn't clear enough. Fine; it's now protected. Unless another admin intervenes, it will remain protected for seven days while this poll continues. At the end of that time, I will, as an otherwise uninvolved admin, tally consensus, unlock the article, and set the article to the consensus version. (For my convenience, please put your votes in bold, so there is no confusion. Sockpuppets and IP addresses will be disqualified, with the exception that IP addresses that have previously contributed significantly to the article will be counted unless there is reason to believe they are sockpuppets. Do not, for any reason, change, strike, or otherwise alter any votes on this page. If you do so, your vote will be discounted, and you will be blocked for vandalism.) Anyone, on either side, who reverts from the consensus version will be blocked for vandalism. -- Essjay · Talk 13:53, 28 September 2005 (UTC)