Talk:Sea Scouts New Zealand

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Scouting Wiki Project Sea Scouts New Zealand is part of the Scouting WikiProject, an effort to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Scouting and Guiding on the Wikipedia. This includes but is not limited to boy and girl organizations, WAGGGS and WOSM organizations as well as those not so affiliated, country and region-specific topics, and anything else related to Scouting. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
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This article was the project's Portal collaboration of the month (February 2008).

[edit] Merge of Hawke Sea Scouts to here

This artcile is on a single group which does not assert any particular notability. It fails the criteria regarding local chapters of organisations on Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies) as well as the guidelines for individual troops of the Wikipedia:WikiProject Scouting. When this kind of article has appeared for other countries , they have generally been merged into an article on Scouting in the appropriate State/Province/County/Area, but there are no such articles for New Zealand. It is therefore best merged into Sea Scouts New Zealand, although it has to be said that this article needs great improvement as just a list of Groups is not appropriate. Please give your views below. --Bduke 02:52, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Support

  • Support merge for the reasons I give above. --Bduke 02:52, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
  • support merge per Bduke. Chris 05:59, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Oppose

  • This article has been recently created to give an overview of Sea Scouts in New Zealand and all those involved with Sea Scouting are being encouraged to contribute. Each Sea Scout group is also being encouraged to establish an article about their group which will link back to this article. You are correct that a list of groups is not sufficient but it is a starting point. By merging Hawke into this article it would reduce the likelyhood of contributions from other groups. This article needs chance to evolve before any merging occurs. HawkeSeaScouts (talk) 05:16, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment. This is part of a separate reply to HawkeSeaScouts on his talk page. The problem is not really with the Scouting WikiProject guideline on Local Scouting Articles. The problem is with this dot point:-
  • Individual chapters of national and international organizations are usually not notable enough to warrant a separate article unless sufficient notability is established through reliable sources. However, chapter information may be included in list articles as long as only verifiable information is included.
in Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies) which the project guidelines reflects and explains in the Scouting context. Maybe the oldest Sea Scout Group in New Zealand might meet that, but a whole lot of articles, as you suggest, will certainly not. Indeed I am surprised that the Hawke Bay article has not been proposed for deletion already. It is pretty clear that it will not survive long. While Wikipedia:WikiProject Scouting/Local Scouting articles (BSA) is about USA, there is a clear consensus to do something similar to articles from other countries. Indeed I thought we had something more general and international than that and I will look further. Many articles on Groups in the UK, Australia, Singapore and other places have been merged. If you look at the list of proposed merges at Wikipedia:WikiProject Scouting/Article watchlist, you will see just below the Hawke Bay entry, two UK Groups articles that have been merged recently. The other problem is getting reliable independent sources. Your link to this site simply does not meet Wikipedia policy. Certainly, the general Sea Scout article is OK, or at least it will be if you add content other than the list of Groups. How is scouting organised below national level in NZ. In Australia it is the States and Territories and we have articles on Scouting in all of them. In UK it is Counties (England) and Scout Areas (Scotland, Wales and NI). Are there Scout structures for places like Otago? These articles for Scouting in NZ need writing. --Bduke (talk) 08:10, 5 December 2007 (UTC)