Talk:Scrubs (TV series)/Archive 1

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Scrubs doesn't seem to think of itself as a sitcom

Have you ever watched that episode where they make a horrible parody of a typical laugh track sitcom, and hint not-too-subtly that Scrubs itself isn't a sitcom at all?

Piotr

It's a sitcom. It just chooses to parody the more popular sitcom format. Crimson Shadow 18:22, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Spoiler warning removed

I removed a spoiler warning at the cast section, since now that the cast have their own articles, it seems a bit odd to have a warning for something which isn't there.Crimson Shadow 20:07, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Females kissed by Zach Braff on the show

I added a section in the trivia about Zach Braff using his influence on the show to kiss female cast members and guest stars. Feel free to add, elaborate, or edit as appropriate, those were all the actresses could remember - but I know there were more.

I don't think he kissed Kelli Williams. Didn't she play dr. Cox' girlfriend?

Mullerbaby 20:03, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

He hasn't kissed Laverne. Sanbuster 09:01, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Nicknames?

Is it just me, or does the nicknames section in the character biographies contain names which could not be classed as nicknames. For example J.Ds' nicknames are: "Newbie, Bambi, Q-Tip, Scooter, Alfalfa, Peepee Lafritz, The Boat, Kid, J-Dizzle, Whizz Kid, Vanilla Bear, Dorothy (nickname given to him when he played the lead role in his high school's production of The Wiz), numerous female names (such as "Clarabel" and "Marjorie"), numerous dog names (such as "Lassie" and "ToTo"), wants to be called Tiger, and does not like to be called Johnny. If he ever goes to prison, he wishes to be called Gizmo." The ones in bold were only used in a single episode, ususally only once. No-one actually calls him "The Boat", it is a name he says would be a good nickname and is not used by the other characters.Crimson Shadow 18:42, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I was thinking this myself. It should either be narrowed down to commonly used nicknames, or re-titled "Also refferd to" or something.--The Wizard of Magicland 23:46, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

I just edited most of the more useless ones, but I believe some have slipped through the net. Crimson Shadow 00:39, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure Janitor called him Scooter in more than one episode. 80.165.166.228 09:42, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, I'm fairly sure too that at least the janitor has called him that a few times. Mathmo 08:51, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
The Janitor calls him Scooter in two episodes in season 2 I believe. --Suspchaos 09:33, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Trivia Section

Most of the content in this section is either fluff or it is true and has no footnotes. Two good examples: -Dr. Cox's habit of referring to J.D. by girls' names was put in the show after the writers noticed John McGinley doing it to Zach Braff. -Tom Cavanagh was especially hired to play J.D.'s brother because of his physical resemblance to Zach Braff.

I think this section should either be deleted or footnotes need to be found to support these claims. -- Wikipedical 00:50, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

All the trivia is found from the imdb.com entry for Scrubs. They are true. Noah 06:02, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
IMDB doesn't make it true. While I understand claims might be right, we still need real sources to back up the claims, or else it is worthless. -- Wikipedical 01:20, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

I think both the ones you mentioned are on one of the DVD commentaries... I know I've heard both someone else. (I wasn't the one who put them in) Priester 02:06, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Should the trivia section be deleted? Comment. -- Wikipedical 20:50, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

No. Some of them could probably stand to be trimmed (or some removed), but I personally like trivia sections. If any of the episodes ever get their own individual articles, the trivia comments should (obviously) get shuffled off to those pages. Until then, let them stay where they are. EVula 20:52, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
Heh, at least one of the episodes does have its own article (My Way Home (Scrubs episode)). Shift all relevant trivia around, I say. EVula 21:08, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

All of the information here can be found in the special features sections of the season 1 and 2 DVD's —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.54.175.254 (talk • contribs)

-Can someone upload screenshots of the X-ray hung backwards and forwards to post in the trivia section? 24.12.146.151 02:44, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

X-ray is backwards

The X-ray in the credits is indeed backwards, even in the 4th season. Here is a link to a screenshot of the credits sequence from the most recent episode, "My Lucky Charm" from season 4. Notice that the X-ray is backwards. Compare that with a chest X-ray hung properly. —Brim 05:20, Jan 26, 2005 (UTC)

  • Sorry I was basing my change on an old FAQ that was written at the start of the second season. Personally I couldn't tell the difference if it was round the right way or not ;-) . Evil Monkey → Talk 05:23, Jan 26, 2005 (UTC)
No problem. I actually had to go back and watch this latest episode to make sure (TiVo helps). Several episodes haven't shown the X-ray on the credits. Even the IMDB entry for "Scrubs" mentions the same thing you did — that it was changed in season 2, and several other websites say the same thing. Interestingly, this website shows a Scrubs t-shirt with the X-ray the right way. —Brim 06:02, Jan 26, 2005 (UTC)
Just watched the Scrubs DVD and on one of the commentaries, Bill Lawrence states that the X-Ray is backwards on purpose to show just how 'unready' the new doctors were. Evil Monkey∴Hello 01:40, Jun 8, 2005 (UTC)

Percival 'Perry' Cox?

The article says John C.'s character's first name was Percival. I think Percival is merely a pun on his actual name Perry. It was mentioned only twice throughout the show. Once in the recent episode 4.22 by Elliot ("Oh, that's right, Percival, it's a high school hair story."), the other time when Cox and Jordan were arguing about their baby's name and Jordan said "You're right, Percival, 'Quinn' is a foofy name." in episode 2.20. IMDB also lists it as "Perry Cox". Any sources stating the contrary? --Jondor 00:05, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Hmmm interesting point. Though of course Bob Kelso real name is Robert. I don't really know. I have seen speculation that Perry Cox maybe a play on Matthew Perry and Courtney Cox but I doubt it. Of course this hasn't answered your questioned. :-) Evil Monkey∴Hello 01:24, Apr 24, 2005 (UTC)
As far as I know, Dr. Cox is based on one of Bill Lawrence's high school teachers by the name of, well, Mr. Cox. But I heard that other speculation, too. Maybe he just added a little Matthew Perry to it when he thought of the first name. Jondor 09:58, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I don't really know either way, but his first name being Percival makes some sense. Elliot's comment doesn't show much, but Jordon's comment points out that even though "Quinn" isn't a good name, his (Percival) isn't so hot either. Plus, "Perry" is one of those names that 9 times out of 10 is short for something. We could always put his name as "Perry Cox" and mention that his full name may be Percival per those two lines. Just my two cents. Lachatdelarue (talk) 03:00, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I think both comments are sarcastic pointers to Cox's overbearing machismo. In Elliot's case because he cringes when she makes him witness some girl talk between her and a patient. In Jordan's case because Cox keeps insisting on "a heterosexual name, like Jack" for the baby, as if 'Quinn' was too feminine. It's true, Perry does sound short for something. But Percival? Is that name really in use these days? What else could Perry be short for?
I suggest to move 'Percival' to the list of his nicknames. Jondor 09:58, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I went ahead and changed it to 'Perry Cox' and listed 'Percival' as a nickname. Lachatdelarue (talk) 13:00, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Okay, great. I was just making sure nobody disagreed, otherwise I would have made the edit myself. Jondor 16:17, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
To me, the comment made my Jordan (and mentioned above), is proof enough. It would not make much sense if his name was not in fact Percival. -- Iol 17:41, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)
How about, instead of having Percival listed as a nickname, we have a sentence like "Perry's first name may actually be Percival, but little hard evidence exists to support this." ? Lachatdelarue (talk) 22:17, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

When Dr. Cox and Jordan first meet on-screen in "My Bad", she calls him "Perry", with J.D. beeing surprised to hear that name and Cox stating "you didn't hear that!" Would he say that if Perry was his real name...? -- Imladros 00:37, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes. I have friends who actually find nicknames to be more embarassing than actual names, so Cox may also feel this way. I think Percival is his real name since I call a friend Perry and his name is Percival. --Suspchaos 09:36, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
Why is everyone arguing? it says on his lab coat Dr. Perry Cox!!!!60.230.38.94 00:25, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
And WHY is it so hard for you people to realize that 'Perry' is short for 'Percival?' It's not that difficult at all. 65.189.210.173 10:02, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Nina/Neena

Didn't the cold-hearted attorny spell her name in this unusual way?

According to the http://www.nbc.com/scrubs it is spelt Neena. I've fixed the spelling in the article. Evil Monkey∴Hello 00:36, May 9, 2005 (UTC)

I will...

read everything before writing anything.
I will read everything before writing anything.
I will read everything before writing anything.
I will read everything before writing anything.

Thanks. I would, however, suggest moving the trivia *above* the eplist, so no one else makes the same mistake. Is there a style that precludes that?
--Baylink 00:37, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

No not really. I just noticed that what had been added was half covered in the trivia section. Actually it would make sense to have the trivia above the episode list. Evil Monkey∴Hello 00:49, May 22, 2005 (UTC)

Theme song

"several times they've used the entire song in an episode..."

Not that I've seen; I have the music video for the full length song, extracted from the website with a hammer and tongs; it's over 3 minutes long. I'm pretty sure I'd have noticed that in an ep -- I make a point of noticing when a show uses it's theme as internal music.
--Baylink 23:22, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Hearing no complaints; I'm taking that out.
--Baylink 01:40, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
I think they're referring to the beginning of the second season where an extended version of the song played in the intro. I agree with the removal, especially because the extended version is mentioned in the article - PhoenixAvatar2 05:49, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
Yea. For the first couple of episodes, they had a long winded version. Which wasn't that great, because of the length. But I have an inkling that one 3rd season episode did it, as well as one 1st season episode. Not sure. I'd have to check.
~Vae 03:04, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Unisex names

Who are the two non-unisex-named women JD has slept with? The only one I know of is Neena. Just to clarify, he never slept with either Molly or Kylie. Here's the full list as I remember it, in chronological order: Alex, Elliot, Jordan, Elliot again, Jamie, Danni, Elliot yet again, Neena. Decrypt3 15:35, Jun 17, 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree, there was but one. And to clarify a little more: Neither did he turn gift shop girl Lisa into gift shop woman. The author probably thought of the women J.D. dated. Jondor 21:46, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I fixed that little bit of trivia. Lachatdelarue (talk) 22:07, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I don't think that JD even had sex with Alex -- she wanted to take it slow and just before they were going to have sex he found the drugs in her purse. Before her there had been Jordan, then Elliot, Elliot again, Jamie, Danni, Elliot again, Neena. Evil Monkey∴Hello 10:40, Jun 18, 2005 (UTC)
Yeah, you're right. Whoops. Still, it's pretty funny that that would have kept the whole unisex-names thing going. Decrypt3 16:35, Jun 18, 2005 (UTC)
If you're twisting at straws, the last episode of season two has him naming a girl from college he did.
~Vae 03:08, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
Well, there's Kim Briggs from the last few episodes of the fifth season. Of course we know she's pregnant, which would lead you to believe that JD slept with her, but perhaps this was because of someone else. Cms479 18:22, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
Even if JD did get lucky with Kim, I'm pretty positive it is not his kid - the contract of the actress playing Kim has her gone before mid-season Phimu222 12:04, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Technically, Dannii isn't really a unisex name . . . does that count? --86.112.248.246 21:09, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Kim can be a man's name too, see Gears of War if you don't believe me!--Bigvis 20:36, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

"Fake doctor flick"?

Google doesn't know what a "fake doctor flick" is, so how is anyone else supposed to know? If it's a well-known phrase, it hasn't reached me yet.

How about a fictional film about physicians?
This is just a guess, but I think it may refer to TV doctors flicking a syringe before using it on a person. Any other ideas? --El Pollo Diablo Talk 00:12, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
That's it. It's mentioned in the special features in Scrubs Season 1.--Saboteur 10:46, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
It's a legitimate action though, it helps remove the air bubbles from the syringe. [1] Chad Hennings 20:30, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

I love this show, It's great. Marco79 14:07, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Ted's hair loss

In Ted's section, it says: "He lost his hair in the 8th Grade." I know that this was stated late in the fourth season somewhere, and Todd gave him a tough-break five. But sometime in the first season (I think in "My Balancing Act" but I'm not sure) Ted says to Dr. Kelso, "let's just say, when I started [working here], I had hair." What should we do about this contradiction?

Toss it up to a casualty of a gag? I say remove the mention of hair-loss entirely, the alternative is a long, drawn out explanation of the contradiction. - PhoenixAvatar2 05:52, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
I see no major contradiction. He could have started loosing his hair in 8th grade, but not that much. So when he started working he still had a decent amount of hair. Then it fell out much faster to leave him how he is today.... Mathmo 08:38, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
It's just a joke to emphasize how long and painful his employment at Sacred Heart has been. There's no need to over analyze things in a show so patently surreal.

Location

The article says that California is the most likely setting, but being in the Central Time Zone disqualifies it; California is in the Pacific Time Zone. Texas, however, is in the Central Time Zone; so it's probably San Antonio (as Orlando is in Eastern Time), unless there's something else I don't know about. Yeltensic42.618 17:51, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

I think like The Simpsons, there are very strong indications its a particular location but certain pieces of evidence disprove it simply to keep people continually guessing. As the article states it is the most likely setting. Yes the time zone might be different but more evidence proves it being California than any other location. Lummie 03:28, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
Since I posted that, they've had an episode that said they're on the Pacific, so now it must be California and not Texas. All we're left with is a slight geographical error, with the episode involving Greenland telling us that Mountain Time is the furthest west it could be. Oh well. Yeltensic42.618 don't panic 15:57, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Seeing this added -- Docter Cox's favorite sport is the NHL, which suggests that this takes place in a northern state, most likely Michigan, since his favorite team is the Detroit Red Wings. -- Seriously? First off, I don't recall the show ever saying that hockey is his favorite sport (he said that he wasn't happy with the lockout last year). Secondly, there's hockey teams all across the United States, and it's popular in plenty of southern states. Finally, just because he's a Red Wings fan doesn't mean that the show is located in Michigan. I know plenty of people who are fans of teams outside of their region (i.e. Yankees fans living outside of New York, Steelers fans outside of Pittsburgh). I'm deleting this information simply because it makes no sense to the location discussion. --Zybergoat 04:56, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Cox's family is from Pittsburgh. From Cox's page. But while Cox is from Pittsburgh, that doesn't mean he works there. The most likely location is someplace in California. Chad Hennings 21:39, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

DVD

Anyone object to a Scrubs DVDs article as per The Simpsons DVDs? Or maybe just a DVD section of the article, as Scrubs has far fewer DVD releases than The Simpsons and other such shows.. - Wezzo 20:34, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Possibly but I think as you said there really isn't enough releases to warrant an mention or info to make it warranted. I think however the section could do with a bit more info. Lummie 03:30, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

The article states that Tasteykakes are not available in California. While they are still a rare site, they have been available for about a decade. They are usually found in Philadelphia themed restaurants.

When they show the front of the hospital their is a palm tree reflection in the window. So I doubt it takes place in a cold climate.

"TV Series" vs. "TV Show"

Why does this article use 'TV Show' to differentiate it from other Scrubs articles, while other shows (ie. M*A*S*H and Las Vegas) 'TV Series'. It doesn't matter that much, but it would make sense to use one or the other as a standard to help people find them easily. I couldn't think of any other shows to look up that might have disambiguations, so I don't know which is used more often.

I believe "(TV series)" is the convention. House (TV series), Nowhere Man (TV series), ALF (TV series) for example. — Shadowhillway 13:06, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Article size too big

There is a message coming up about whenever the page is edited saying This page is 35 kilobytes long. This may be longer than is preferable; see article size. I was thinking that it might be worth breaking the Characters section into a seperate page as its getting a little too big. A bit like what was done with the Characters from Arrested Development. Lummie 03:34, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree with this view-point as there is sufficent material for each character and the article is getting unmanagable. It would be far better to list the characters with links to their biographies. (StudentSteve 01:24, 1 February 2006 (UTC))

I'm going to again nominate this page to be separated. There's already a page for episodes; there should be a separate page created for Characters. Have a brief cast list on this page, but redirect to a new characters page.

I have created separate articles for each major character as there is enough content for each one to justify their own articles. The main article is still too big - what do you think we should do? Move all the minor and guest characters to their own article Characters of Scrubs or List of minor characters of Scrubs? Maybe reduce the trivia section - this is huge and it may not all be necessary in an encyclopedia article. johnSLADE (talk) 19:36, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
List of minor characters of Scrubs would be the appropriate name for an article. I'm 100% for the content getting shuffled off to that page, then a link added to the Scrubs template. EVula 19:55, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
Ok, page of minor characters created. the main article is now around 30 KB. johnSLADE (talk) 18:04, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
It's back up to 42KB. Perhaps the JD/Elliot Relationship section could be either moved to its own article or included in both the JD and Elliot articles. Trivia should be cut down, and Location could either be moved to its own article or cut out altogether. Chad Hennings 08:00, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Wizard

I do not think that JD saying "I want to go home" is a reference to Clerks. I think it's more like when Dorothy kept saying "There's no place like home" in The Wizard of Oz. There were way too many references to the Wizard: JD's red shoes, the yellow line/road, the lion, tiger, bear things, Cox calling JD "Dorothy", and the witch melting in the room.

While I don't have a script or copy of the episode onhand, I'm pretty sure that JD's line is "I'm not supposed to be here!" which is very similar to Dante's line in Clerks of "I'm not even supposed to be here today." Granted, it may not be an homage, but the similarity is pretty close. --Zybergoat 11:16, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Todd's sexuality

The entry about Todd says that he's had several women back to his place - which episode(s) was that? In later series his fixation with banana hammocks, his flat when JD visits, his childhood flashback listening to "Annie" and his comments about the Janitor in the new jumpsuit all suggest only one thing.

If you watch the DVD commentary for Season One, Bill Lawrence says in one of the episodes (I don't remember which one) that they have CONSIDERED making The Todd into a homosexual, but it's not clear. And, if they did make him into a homosexual, Bill Lawrence says that there's the possibility that Todd could come back and just appreciate the "hot" regardless of gender (see My Lucky Charm, Season Four). I don't think we can leap to conclusions without there being solid evidence either way about The Todd's sexuality. -- Andrew Jesse Brown

Thanks for that; I have not seen the DvD commentary. I agree that they have kept the Todd's sexuality ambiguous (though strongly hinted he is at least bisexual), but I was wondering which women he's actually succeeded with. One I saw on a recent repeat was Neena, the lawyer JD hooked up with and had to rope in Jordan to help break up with. At the end of the episode, she has ordered JD to the back seat of the car but, following Jordan's intervention, orders the Todd there instead.


Ted's Band

I thought it might be worth mentioning the official website of "The Worthless Peons" in real life (The band is known as "The Blanks") http://www.theblankswebsite.com/ . I don't make edits very often, so if this is worth adding feel free to make the edit yourself. -- Rjx

Mini cooper

they have a blue mini convertible

Ted's Competence

Recently, in episode ("My Five Stages (2)"), Ted did not know what a tort was.

Later, in the segment appearing to be about acceptance (JD and Cox accepting death, etc...), was it not the janitor who accepted defeat against Kelso (Ted ran out happy about all his Sunday afternoons off)?

What is the evidence that Ted is competent? -Anon

Mike Schwartz

He's one of the writers and also cameos as the delivery man or something like that. He was the drummer of the air band in 5x09 My Half-Acre. Maybe he's worth a mention. VodkaJazz 12:41, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

I dont know if you added this after you posted your message, but this is in the trivia-section:
  • Several Scrubs crew members have appeared in minor speaking roles, for example writers Gabrielle Allan and Mike Schwartz. Schwartz has a recurring role as a delivery man.

Mullerbaby 14:41, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Todd's last name

It was stated in a DVD commentary (in season 1, I believe) that Todd doesn't officially have a last name on the show. I've watched every episode and I've never heard it mentioned. I think the name "Quinlan" was made up by fans. As such, I'm taking it back out of the section on Todd. Decrypt3 22:52, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Er, wait...I haven't seen 5-15 yet. Scratch that for now. Decrypt3 22:56, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
In Episode 5.15 Dr. Wen posts "a premilinary ranking" of the surgeons "technical skills" on which the name Todd Quinlan is #2. Turk later comments that it's easy to forget Todd is a skilled surgeon, to a background of Todd doing yet another stupid thing I can't recall at the moment. Given several additional references to Todd as a classic "scalpel jock", ie, a gifted surgeon who knows nothing whatsoever about internal medicine, it again makes sense that #2 on the list would be our favorite pseudo-bisexual cast member and make his last name Quinlan.

Camera

no way in hell is this show single-camera setup, as included in the summary box. single camera shows are like seinfeld...traditional sitcom stuff. this isnt. unfortunately, i dont know much about the infobox to fix that. (slash im lazy) 82.83.3.97 14:32, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

You've got your terms mixed-up, I think. Traditional sitcoms are filmed on an open stage, i.e. Seinfeld, Home Improvement, That 70's Show, etc. Because they use multiple cameras all facing the same direction, they're called multi-camera. Single-camera shows don't mean that they use just one camera, just that they usually don't have multiple cameras focused on the same thing. They also are filmed in a setting, not on an open stage. Single-camera sitcoms include Scrubs, My Name is Earl, The Office, and Malcolm in the Middle. If it's still unclear, check out Single_camera_setup#Single_camera_television_comedies --Zybergoat 11:14, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

"Duncan?"

Glancing over the section about Turk, I noticed the section saying that he likes telling people that his middle name is Duncan because his father liked donuts. According to the episode (3.20, "My Fault"), JD says this, and Turk tells him to stop telling people that. I've gone and corrected it. --Zybergoat 05:50, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Season 4 DVD

I've added season 4's release date in the DVD section. Source: http://www.play.com/play247.asp?page=title&r=R2&title=931097&p=57&g=72&pa=sr . Feel free to edit it or rephrase it. BTW, should the source be added somewhere in the article? Mullerbaby 20:06, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for doing that. No I think with DVD releases if they are available to buy or pre-order then anyone can look it up. I think if the DVD has been rumoured or is supposed to come out on a certain date so if it had been announced but wasn't for pre-order than a source would be good. If you really want to you could put an link to it as it wouldn't hurt the article. --Lummie 03:04, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Janitor's Real Name

I saw that PhoenixAvatar2 added a note to the Janitor section saying that Bill Lawrence will only reveal the Janitor's name after the series has ended. Is there a source for this? I'm a pretty big fan of the show and I've never heard this. --Zybergoat 19:34, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Well in one of the episodes, JD watches The Fugitive and sees Neil Flynn acting as the police officer, then goes and challenges him about it. I took this to mean that, basically, the Janitor is Neil Flynn. Satan's Rubber Duck 14:31, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
I think this is one of those weird intermixings of reality and not-reality that we can't really reconcile. My take is that in Scrubs-world, the guy who appeared in The Fugitive is not Neil Flynn, but the Janitor. In real life it's Neil Flynn. To put it another way, in the alternate universe of Scrubs, the Janitor played the transit cop in The Fugitive. I don't think it's supposed to mean the Janitor is Neil Flynn, or that his name is Neil Flynn. --Decrypt3 22:54, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

The Blanks article

I just created the The Blanks article. This talk page is probably where it would generate the most interest, so if any of you knowledgeable people wanted to add to the article, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks! --Doug (talk) 09:38, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Location clues

I removed a bunch of clues from the Location section because they weren't relevant. Here's why:

  • Carla is from Chicago: has no bearing on where she is now.
  • Sending Carla's mom to Florida: so they're not in Florida. We're looking for clues to where they are, not where they aren't. There's no indication at all that they are in Florida, so this isn't really a counterpoint to anything.
  • Go out and see Texas: same as previous one.
  • Turk a Knicks fan: You don't have to live in a city to be a fan of their sports team.
  • Miller Park: is probably just a generic-sounding park name. Knowing the Scrubs writers, it's probably named after someone who works for the show. Also, there are no palm trees in Wisconsin, and there are palm trees around Sacred Heart.

-Decrypt3 03:03, 24 April 2006 (UTC)


Doesn't Turk at one point get a new cell phone number that is "916-Call-Turk" ?

916 is Sacramento CA and the surrounding area.

i figure its much like various other TV shows. the location of the hospital is completely redundant, so its is very likely there’ll be contradictions. its like the Simpsons. Kiran90 01:03, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Trivia in "My Hero"

In the trivia section, is states that one of the names in the new rotations is Moore, M., supposedly in reference to Zach Braff's currenty girlfriend Mandy Moore. I'm confused, though, since supposedly they met in the middle of 2004, and that episode aired in 2002. Has Braff been interested her since that time, or is the name in reference to something else? --JYC

  • I was wondering the same thing. I haven't gotten a chance to go back to that episode and confirm that the name Moore, M is on the board, but I would probably write it off to coincidence. --Zybergoat 21:06, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
My assumption is that the trivia is poorly worded: the board is plainly visible in My Hero (as an example), but these in-joke names appear on it throughout multiple episodes over the series. -- Viewdrix 21:13, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
If it appeared in 2002, maybe Moore M. is a reference to Michael Moore, since Bowling for Columbine came out in 2002. Crimson Shadow 13:12, 20 May 2006 (UTC)


Number 47?

The trivia section mentions that in episode 25, season 4, J.D.'s new room number is 47, and how this may connect to Pomona College. Is there any evidence that this connection is anything more than a coincidence? Couldn't we probably find something interesting about any room number they happened to choose? 209.150.227.67 17:53, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Series 6?

Forgive me if I'm being stupid, but I can't find any information on the possible existence of a 6th series of Scrubs. Can anyone shed any light? 86.131.14.27 20:06, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

At this point, I don't think anything's confirmed. Mullerbaby 16:46, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
Supposedly (as according to cast an crew) they have been picked up for a 6th season, and will a be a mid-season replacement coming along after the first of the year. It was said that ABC was rabid and willing to pick yup scrubs' Contract if NBC defaulted. I can't quote a specific source but most recent interviews with cast memebers confirm this.--71.193.188.142 06:34, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Removing images

I just wanted to see whether removing the dvd images and the extra image seemed a bit extreme. Many wikipedia pages use images of dvd covers, multiple ones for tv shows. Anyone mind if I re-add them? Lummie 03:49, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Sure, go ahead. --Liface 04:47, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
WP:FUC #3: "Do not use multiple images or media clips if one will serve the purpose adequately.". As for the DVD covers, there is no text or critical analysis of the actualy DVDs so we can't just put in the images for decoration. "The material must contribute significantly to the article (e.g. identify the subject of an article [which they aren't], or specifically illustrate relevant points [which they don't]". If you have any queries, feel free to ask at Wikipedia talk:Fair use. ed g2s • talk 09:34, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
  • But I think that is splitting hairs. Much of that and other statements are broad and saying its not fair use is debatable. The other significant fact is as I mentioned that numerous other pages use DVD covers for the TV shows. Are they all wrong? Lummie 11:53, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Trivia growing too large?

There's a lot of trivia, which is good for a show, however it's getting unmanagable. Can we make a Trivia of Scrubs or Scrubs Trivia page or at least move the specific episode trivia off? Kinglink 16:42, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree there is a lot of trivia. Much of it is pop-culture references, so I've split it in twian; Trivia and Pop-Culture. I've also removed the following:

"Sarah Chalke always wears different colored bras during shirtless scenes. Although it's been mentioned in articles and on the web that she's never worn the same color twice, it's actually not true. Both red and cyan have been repeated more than once." Seemed contradictory to me.

"The characters are often seen drinking Vitamin Water during lunch breaks in the cafeteria." And? Turk once had a burger. Should we mention that as well?

I may have made a mistake, so feel free to correct any glaring errors. Just don't do a full revert. Crimson Shadow 17:06, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Looks a bit better, but still a bit beefy. I'm leaning towards recommending a trivia page, especially with it coming back for another season. maybe cut out naming every appearance of people (such as the singer Colin Hay, and Sam Lloyd, it's good they are meantioned, bad they are large paragraphs and feel less then perfect) As well as do we REALLY need a list of every two people on the show who worked together (hint, Christa Miller was on a very popular show for more than half it's run, I have a good feeling we could link EVERY person to every other person on the show if we really tried)--Kinglink 06:47, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Disambiguation

Should there be a disambiguation page for the word "Scrubs"? I have a feeling there are at least as many people looking for the show as for the clothing item, but a quick search for 'scrubs' goes immediately to the clothing item. --Gpollock 02:37, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. Dustin 22:42, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Individual episode pages

It might make sense to create individual episode pages for all of the episodes (right now they go up to mid- Season 3). First off, it's just a bit odd to have some individual episode pages lacking - especially for a series that's relatively popular. Second, having more pages encourages people to add more content. People seem to be willing to add a lot more content where they see a lack (such as a small episode page, as opposed to an incredibly long series page). Third, it would help significantly with the problem of the obese Trivia section - most of the trivia could be moved to the relevant episode page. Any thoughts? --Gpollock 07:09, 5 June 2006 (UTC)


Having not much to do over the next few weeks, I don't mind attempting to put together episode pages from Series 3 onwards, I'll make a start tomorrow even. Luckily I do have every episode from Season 3 onwards to hand, so I'll see how much I can do. The_B 23:56, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

'Season 5' section

The section describing the airing history of season 5 was removed. The criticism was that Season 5 is over, so it doesn't really matter. I read over the section deleted, and decided that, though the section seemed a bit too much like it was written for people watching the fifth season, it was useful. We have the information, and it was a weird year for the way Scrubs aired, so why not discuss it? I did try and rewrite it a bit to make it seem more like a (somewhat) organised history of Season 5 and less like a discussion. --Gpollock 18:34, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

If we have this, then why not a section on all the previous sections. Either we have a section just on Season 6, as it is the ongoing potion of Scrubs, or histories on all the previous seasons as well.

  • I more than agree that we should include information on the broadcast history of all previous seasons. The only reason I didn't add it is that I personally don't know the broadcast history of Scrubs, before Season 5. However, even if we don't (yet) have a full description of the entire broadcast history, I just don't see any reason to remove information that we do have. This is especially true with the fifth season, which was broadcast in such an odd fashion. But please, if anyone knows more details about Scrubs' broadcast history, please add it! ----Gpollock 21:00, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

"Head down the 405" -- themesong quote

From the location-section:

  • The opening theme song makes references to the 405, which could be an offshoot of Interstate 5 in Southern California or the greater Seattle region in Washington state.

While that may be said in Lazlo Bane's "I'm no Superman", that part of the song isn't in the opening, there's only the "I can't do this all on my own / No I know / I'm no Superman"-part, so I'd argue if that point is actually important to where the shows location is. I mean, then you could also say that J.D. had a wife, because the song contains the line "The wife is working hard". Mullerbaby 13:09, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Considering the song came before the show (Zach himself reccomended it didn't he?) I'd agree. The_B 23:52, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
Yup, Zach Braff recomended the song. There doesn't appear to be any dis-agreeing, so I'm removing it. Mullerbaby 00:01, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Citation for Season 5 on E4

There isn't any citation, and i think one is neccessary.--Lewis the Ger 19:54, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Can we please have a citation here?--Lewis the Ger 11:03, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

It's done. --Gpollock 18:41, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks--Lewis the Ger 09:23, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Aren't they starting series 4 on July? I know the source says 5, but the ad showed clips from 4, and AFAIK, 3 is the latest they've shown. Also the Channel 4 Scrubs site has info on Series 4, but no mention of 5.

CW Syndication?

I added CW2 - Denver to the list of syndicators of the show -- they will air it when the station converts to the CW in September. I was wondering if this goes for any or all of the other CW affiliates switching this autumn. Anybody know if others are picking it up? The only way I know about CW2 Denver carrying it is because I've been seeing commercials for it during the nine 'o clock newscast. --Char645 08:33, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Memorable quotes for episodes

As far as episode summaries go, would it be too far out of line to add some memorable quotes? Not too many to clutter the page, but perhaps some that wouldn't ruin the plot line but would either give a giggle or show something about the person's character? --Suspchaos 09:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

I think they would be more appropriate for Wikiquote.

P.S - there already is - Scrubs --Iorek85 09:59, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Percival 'Perry' Cox

I think the comment in episode 2.20 does prove Cox's true first name to be Percival. Bob Kelso's true first name (Robert) is not questioned, even though it is rarely mentioned in the show. Also, the accuracy of IMDB on this can be questioned, as the 2.20 page lists 'Ted Buckland' as that character's true name (his real name being Theodore.) I would agree with Lachatdelarue's suggestion. Percival should not be listed as a nickname, but the opening lines of the article should mention the speculation about Pervical/Perry as his name. EJB341

Dear...GOD, people, what on earth do you think 'Perry' is short for? 'Frederick?' 65.189.210.173 10:05, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

these are all colloquial shortenings of names, not nicknames. james = jim, richard = dick. i dont think its an issue to be highly debated... Kiran90 01:07, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Article now up to 44kb

The article is now up to 44KB. I propose that the following new articles be created:

JD/Elliot Relationship (or possibly inserted into the character pages, similar to the House character biographies)
Trivia
Pop Culture
Location (theories on where the hospital is located)
Scrubs around the world (Syndication in other countries)

Chad Hennings 07:04, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

I think that most of those are good ideas, apart from Trivia and Pop Culture; those bits should be mercilessly cut down to a decent size. Crimson Shadow 16:11, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

the JD/Elliot article was origionally a seperate article, but it was deleted and so I had to merge it into this article. The JD article is already very long, so maybe it should just be on Elliot's page with a link from JD's page or you could just delete it entirely. I agree that the trivia section should maybe be cut down. EJB341, August 25, 22:11.

Perhaps the important question is if the JD/Elliot thing is necessary at all or even in the remotest slightest sliver of thin essentiality. It should be in the character bios "Jd had sex with Elliot this episode, then that, then they broke up". Its a part of the story but not an overwhelming part that it deserves its own section or page.Darkwarriorblake 00:13, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

I think it's better to try and clean up the article rather than create new articles. I've been working on cleaning up the Trivia today, and I found a lot of stuff that should go on individual episode pages, a lot of things that seem like wild supposition, etc. I think articles like Syndication of Scrubs or Trivia for Scrubs have a bad record on AfD. EJB341's JD/Elliot Relationship article is a good example. The only one I can potentially see having its own article is Location of Sacred Heart Hospital, because that's the only one that seems like a topic in of itself. But yeah, my nomination is to edit, rather than separate. --Gpollock 00:49, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

The show Friends created the phrase 'Ross and Rachel' to describe an off again-on again relationship and yet its article, bloated as it is, doesn't have a Ross/Rachel section, a Monica/Chandler section. Scrub the JD/Elliot section, its not needed.Darkwarriorblake 12:59, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

More thoughts: (ha, I really talk too much) The more I look at other TV series articles, the more I think we should focus on improving the content, and not editing it. As for the length issue, a quick review of other popular TV series articles will quickly show that 39kb (the current article size) is hardly unreasonable:

And PS, the 55kb Arrested Development article is a FA. So, naturally, if something on the main Scrubs page should not be there, please get rid of it, but if something is appropriate to the main Scrubs page, feel no hesitation in adding it, would be my advice.--Gpollock 05:29, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

You're right. I'll delete the JD/Elliot section if it's pointless and taking up space. EJB341 19:44, 4 September 2006 (UTC), September 4th, 2006. 20:45.


Orphaned episode trivia

Well, maybe orphaned is the wrong word. 'Homeless,' perhaps? I took these pieces of trivia off of the main Scrubs page, because they belong on the pages of the specific episodes they refer to. Problem is, the pages for the specific episodes they refer to do not exist yet. Normally, I would just leave them on the main page, but, since the main page is so long, and since new episode pages have been coming hard and fast recently, I'm just going to post them on this page temporarily until their episode pages are created. Feel free to move them over if you notice the relevant episode page has been created. (Note: These are not worded exactly as they were on the Trivia page. Most have been expanded, edited, or reworded.)

And again, if you can find a home for these poor orphans on appropriate episode pages, please do move them over. Thanks so much! --Gpollock 06:37, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

It's done. I made the episode pages, and the bits of orphaned trivia are now at home on their appropriate episode pages. --Gpollock 04:02, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

'Fall' vs. 'Autumn'

The usage of the word 'fall' versus the word 'autumn' seems like a constant battle on this page. So please, let's settle it. The fact that I (and others) want to use 'fall' instead of 'autumn' is not (can we bold that?) not based on an American bias, or a belief that Wikipedia is somehow American. It's based on official Wikipedia guidelines. WP:MOS#National varieties of English clearly states:

"Articles that focus on a topic specific to a particular English-speaking country should generally conform to the usage and spelling of that country."

So, according to this, since Scrubs is an American show created for an American network, and apparently set somewhere in America, we should use American spelling. Ah, but because of the international broadcasts of the show, shouldn't the article on the show reflect a more internationally accepted term. I would agree with that, except that one of the examples given in the MOS goes as follows:

"Article on Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings: British English usage and spelling."

Despite the fact that this book has among the strongest international appeals of any book ever, because it's by a British author, originally published in Britain, and set in a world not unlike Britain (except for the magic and elves and whatnot), we use British English. Also, as for using British usage when discussing R2 DVD releases, the same MOS page quoted above states,

"Articles should use the same dialect throughout."

So, American dialect throughout. There are so many more important things to worry about in this article, can we just end this debate and go with Wikipedia's official guidelines? Pretty please with sugar on top? --Gpollock 23:17, 29 August 2006 (UTC)


I'm not in the war but regardless of it being an American show, english didn't exactly develop there and other english speaking countries watch it. Everyone knows what Autumn is, its freaking nature, but Fall only makes sense to Americans.Darkwarriorblake 23:26, 29 August 2006 (UTC)


Ehhh, maybe war was a bit over-dramatic... maybe 'occasionally editing back and forth' would be more appropriate. Anyway, It's not an issue to debate on an individual Wikipedia page. I'm Canadian, and sometimes I find myself having to double check if I put an '-ou-' where there should be an '-o-' or an '-re' where there should be an '-er', but it's Wikipedia policy, and so, until it changes, I follow it. But, of course, being Wikipedia, the policies are always under debate, so if you think the policy is wrong, Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style is the place to do it, but not on a particular page.--Gpollock 23:32, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

G. Pollock is correct; "Fall" is the correct term to use because the show is produced in and for the United States (primarily). The Wikipedia guidelines are quite clearly stated, and I think we can all agree that this is Wikipedia, so it's obvious which rules to conform to. (Wikipedia's.) CGameProgrammer 18:48, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
Regardless of where it is made, THEY, as in the producers, owners, whatever, market it to many other countries including many English speaking countries, they release full DVD seasons in the UK as much as they do in the US and since there is not a Wikipedia-US, Wikipedia-AUS, Wikipedia-UK, etc, etc, it makes more sense to use Autumn over Fall. Autumn is universal, Fall is not. Darkwarriorblake 19:00, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
Just passing through, but I agree with Gpollock (though I do think this is a silly disagreement). It is a show made in and set in America so it might fall under the "tie to a specific region" clause from the manual of style. Was the show first shown only in the States and then later aired internationally? That would also be good support. Failing that, we should use the last rule from the manual of style: "...the dialect of the first significant contributor (not a stub) should be used." The problem there might be deciding who the first significant contributor was (I looked back in the history but the article seemed to grow pretty slowly, a few sentences at a time). digfarenough (talk) 22:57, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
Don't Americans use autumn, too. I'm not sure of it, but isn't autumn the "official" term for the season over there? Wiki is an encyclopaedia, so shouldn't it avoid colloquialisms? Iorek85 23:00, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, I was just thinking about that. After a bit more thought, I now think it's more reasonable to use "autumn" as it is indeed used in American speech (less so than "fall", I expect, but still used) and its use should help end this debate. I'll go ahead and side with Darkwarriorblake and Iorek85 in preferring the term that is more universal. I should have realized this before, it is explicit in the manual of style: "Where varieties of English differ over a certain word or phrase, try to find an alternative that is common to both." and, with that, I think the question is clearly answered: autumn is common to both dialects in question. digfarenough (talk) 01:15, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
This discussion only emphasizes the trouble with committee driven work: no one seems unable to understand either word, and yet people are wasting incredible amounts of time arguing over which to use. It makes little or no difference to anyone with a reasonable english vocabulary. No contests over the purity of british english or the dominance of american english in american content are necessary. These two synonyms are scarcely unique to any english dialect.
Why should we use fall when in Australia, Canada, Britain, New Zealand and other countries use Autumn? Just because it suits you doesn't mean that it suits everyone! FYI autumn is the original AND correct term, fall was 'invented' by people who live in the USA, by the way Gpollock says that there are more important things to worry about rather than the spelling! But then why did he exactly start this part of the Scrubs talk page? Let the pople want to use fall use fall and let those who want to use autumn use autumn, why should Australians, Canadian , British and New Zealanders change our spelling just to suit . By the way i try to 'change' all the 'mistakes' by adding -our or chnaging to fall and autumn be cause it is really the correct spelling!Australian Jezza 01:55, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
I wonder if Mexicans, Puerto Ricans and Spaniards argue about dialects like this on the Spanish Wiki. In the entertainment industry in the US, it's a Fall Season, not an autumn season. People generally know what Autumn is, however, the term is never used to refer to television seasons in the US. It's a US show filmed and produced in the US and performed by US actors. As such, it should be addressed as it is in the US, just like the Dr. Who articles should be written with British English dialects. Language isn't the same everywhere it is spoken, and saying one particular dialect is wrong is in itself wrong. Differences in dialect aren't colloquialisms, and wikipedia guidelines state that articles rooted in one specific place should use the dialect of that place. The fact that it's syndicated elsewhere is meaningless by these guidelines. It shouldn't change how it currently is, where "fall" is used. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.229.226.66 (talk) 04:21, 28 January 2007 (UTC).
The point is, Autumn is American as well. Americans know what Autumn means, everyone else knows what autumn means, but only Americans (and some others) knows what fall means. This is isn't a contest between English and American, it's Universal v Local. Color vs Colour, you'd be right, but not here. Iorek85 05:06, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
In the USA, when referring to TV schedules, fall is always used, never autumn. --Milo H Minderbinder 15:53, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
I can see the reasoning behind wanting to change it to autumn, however, I don't think it should be. If we were referring to just the season of nature, than I think it would be better to change it to autumn. However, it's not just the season of nature, it's a television season, which doesn't necessarily follow the season of nature. Other US television articles (like Arrested Development, for example) that show the distinction between the two television seasons use "fall," not autumn. Autumn is rarely used and never to refer to television seasons in the entertainment industry (which may not even follow the nature seasons all that much). While you may say it isn't a contest between British English and American English, it really is, because one is used in this context in one dialect, and one is used in this context in the other. I think if you are going to distinguish between the seasons, the precedence should follow what is set by other American shows that use it, and as such, it should be referred to as the fall television season. However, with all this ado about something so trivial, I think we should just reword it so this argument doesn't come up. Hawk405359 20:16, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

J.D. and Elliot

I made a new article entitled J.D. and Elliot which is basically a direct rip of the J.D. and Elliot topic which used to be on the main page but was then deleted. If anyone can think of a better way to link it other than the link which is currently in the 'cast' section, feel free to edit in a new 'see also' type thing somewhere else.

Thanks for saving that section. But it was previously a seperate article that got deleted, forcing me to merge it with the Scrubs TV series page. Maybe we should expand that article into something more useful. Among the articles for Friends, there is a 'List of significant others on friends' article that contains a full list of all relationships, including detailed sections on Ross/Rachelm, Joey/Rachel and Monica/Chandler. Maybe if we re-named the JD and Elliot article to something like that (List of relationships on Scrubs, for example) the article would have more point. We could add sections on Turk/Carla and Cox/Jordan, along with info lists on the other relationships (For JD; Jordan, Alex, Lisa etc. For Elliot; Sean, Paul, Dan etc. For Cox; Kristen & Julie.EJB341 10:40, 5 September 2006 (UTC), 5th September, 11:40.

Why not just put the info in the character bios? They're pretty empty and pointless right now anyway.Darkwarriorblake 15:11, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

I wouldn't put it in the character bios, just because it links the two characters, and it's pointless to put it into the two separately. I do like the 'list of significant others' though. --Andyroo316 02:08, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Ever seen the Angel article? All the buffy characters have a 'relationship section' with lists of lusts/loves and a brief description of what hapenned.Darkwarriorblake 18:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Marked for copyedit

Minimal to-do list:

  • wikify dates with dbl-brackets
  • replace informal words with formal words
  • show title, Scrubs, always in italics
  • quotes for episode names
  • de-wiki-link episode names that don't have articles
  • remove unnecessary bold style (as-in: yes)
  • check spelling

I'll do what I can, but please see Wikipedia:How to copy-edit. --Charles Gaudette 10:05, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

I applaud your efforts. This page definitely needs some work, and thank you so much for helping get the page up to snuff. One thing: I'm not sure if I agree with your suggestion to dewikilink episode names that don't yet have articles, because there's no question that there will be articles on them in the future – my guess would be the very near future. If you de-wikilink them now, someone will just have to re-wikilink them whenever those pages are created. I would say we should stay consistent to the page's format (which includes wikilinks for titles of episodes), even if it creates a few temporary redlinks. --Gpollock 00:27, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Right. If you are sure there are going to be episode articles, then surely leave them in as red-links. --Charles Gaudette

From what i can see spelling is not an issue, but now i notice there is other problems that we need to correct. --0555 16:17, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

The page in its current state looks fine to me, removing the copy edit template. --BJ 18:54, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Sacred Heart Hospital article

I noticed that today, Fat pig73 created an article on Sacred Heart Hospital. Right now, it's pretty sparse, and I worry that, in its present form, it might not survive an AfD. So, we need some content. Lo and behold, on our main Scrubs page - which is getting a bit too long - we have the section on the location of Sacred Heart. I'm going to be bold and move most of this information over to the Sacred Heart Hospital article. Any thoughts? --Gpollock 00:26, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Good idea. On one a Scrubs board on the net, me and some other fans have compiled a list of every character who has ever worked at Sacred Heart. We've now got 142 names and their jobs at Sacred Heart, although their may be more. Do you think we should add those to the Sacred Heart Hospital article as info on it or would that just be pointless and take up too much space? In any case, I defenitely think some pictures of SH should be added to the article and possibly sections on places in the hospital and their roles (the ICU, the cafeteria etc.) EJB341


DVD Boxsets

I know that, in the UK at least, boxsets of seasons 1-2 and 1-4 have also been released. (I have the season 1-2 set and season 3. I have just discovered season 4 and the 1-4 release . . . so wish I'd waited to buy!) Is this relevant to the page?

"Comedy Central will share its reruns in 2007 with sister station Nick@Nite."

Can someone tell me what this is all about? Maybe provide a source, and also tell how Comedy Central is anything even remotely resembling Nick at Night's sister station? VelvetKevorkian 10:16, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Good catch. It's been removed. --Gpollock 17:36, 20 October 2006 (UTC)


They're both owned by Viacom Lue3378 08:23, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

So is about half the planet, I'd not call them "sister stations" based on that alone, personally.--Fyre2387 (talk • contribs) 19:57, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

question from Germany

hey guys I´m from Germany and here we can´t already get the latest scrubs DVD boxsets, so now my question is, if theres either German subtitle, German audio or even both on them in the UK. I just wondered ´bout this, because I was told so. thanks by now yours nina (sorry for my english being not that good... I´ve just been learning it for three years!)

84.149.31.124 20:07, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Well my Scrubs DVDs have both German subtitles and German audio. I have the Region 4 (Australian) version but the UK version will be the same. Don't worry about your English, my German is much worse, but I've actually been using the German subtitles and audio to improve my German! Tschüs! Teiresias84 06:52, 28 October 2006 (UTC)


thanks!!!

this helped me a LOT! I´m doing the same with my english dvds... 84.149.64.127 19:48, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

How do you speak german using danish with a swiss accent?

The line "Elliot's German is changed to Danish or German with a Swiss accent (Season 4/Episode 17) in the German version of the show" makes no sense. --MarsRover 02:33, 23 November 2006 (UTC)


well, it is right! In germany they wanted all the jokes to stay, and so they translated the scenes where elliot/sarah speaks german into: a) danish (when there is erich in the...2nd season, they say he´s danish, and they say elliot speaks danish and when there is the scene with TCW and the german song, in germany there says J.D. something like: a song named somewhat like "danish people lie" would have been better) and b) when elliot plays the german romeo and julia in the english version, in the german one she speaks german, but with swiss accent and this is almost some kind of a real different language and most german people would neither understand it, nor speak it!!!

I´m sorry for my english, but I´m german and... well I don´t seem to be too good at english, do I?! hope I helped you nina --84.149.26.101 01:08, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Lack of HDTV

I think it is notable that Scrubs is one of the few prime-time programs not broadcast (filmed) in HDTV.[4] And it is the only one amongst the Thursday night lineup.[5] A Google search[6] has brought up an article and several forum discussions about it being long overdue. I wanted to post it here before any action was taken on the main page. --vossman 17:34, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

NPOV

The following line is clearly POV and should be removed. "Not since the days of M*A*S*H have writers been able to combine clever, witty humour and heart wrenching tragedy."

I removed that line (and the following sentence since it then lacked context). Thanks for pointing that out. --TM 00:12, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

'Around the world' section

This section was removed (twice) by User:R. Koot, calling it unencyclopedic. I added it back after the first time, saying there was a defence of the section on the talk page. I thought there was, but there isn't (my bad). So here's a pretty simple defence: it's a very very common section in TV show pages. I checked some popular TV show pages. Heroes (TV series), Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip, Friends, Weeds (TV series), and others all have them. There's even a whole seperate article called Broadcasting of The Simpsons. R.Koot argued in his edit summary "why would anyone care about this in 10 years time?" I just don't think this is a terribly relevant argument. In 10 years, who's going to care about The Hampster Dance? Gigli? t.A.T.u.? Yet all these have articles. Decent sized ones too.

Now, one thing I did notice: many of the TV show articles that have lists of international broadcasters have a big table listing all the broadcasters. I can see doing that, but eliminating the section entirely seems inappropriate.

But, for now, let's at least keep the section here, for safekeeping.

(PS: Did you know the Hampster dance Song was featured in the 2005 movie Are We There Yet? Neither did I!) --Gpollock 05:28, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

If this section is properly trimmed it wouldn't be much larger than a list of countries the TV show is broadcast which seems relavant. Things to trim (a) combine the paragraph and the list and (b) remove the "glowing quote" included for United States bullit. --MarsRover 07:03, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Another big problem with including information that is only relevant right here and now is that it become outdated and incorrect quickly: Scrubs was not aired in The Netherlands, on Veronica until recently. (It has been aired until January, shortly reappeared in June and should be reappearing regularly on January 5th.) Information that becomes incorrect over such a short timespan is exactly the kind of stuff you do not want in an encyclopaedia (and Wikipedia is no exception as we have had non-editable CD/DVD versions and are preparing stable and print versions.) —Ruud 13:20, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Two things. First, re Mars' comment: I agree some trimming might be possible, but you mention the leading paragraph. That's a recent addition, by me. It was an attempt to shorten the long list of countries by combining some of the countries to show the major international broadcasters. But, if the consensus is that it works better as a list, thats fine too. Second, re Ruud's comment... I just cant agree with your agrument. Are you saying Wikipedia shouldn't cover things that are changing... like living people? Or, even more siginifcantly, current events? Because those change by the second. In fact, Wikipedia is gaining a reputation as the only encyclopedia that has the ability to provide up-to-the minute encylopedic information of events as they happen. (One striking example would be 7 July 2005 London bombings, where Wikipedia was commended as one of the best sources of current information.) That something is constantly changing does not mean Wikipedia shouldn't cover it... if anything, it means the opposite. --Gpollock 07:15, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
No you totally missed my point, the around the world section only list information that is relevant and correct during December 2006 and not up to and including December 2006. This quite a different situation than that of a biography of a living person, or even the special situation that arises during the coverage of major current events (the changes made to those articles are corrections based on new information, while in this article older, but correct information, is removed in the process.) The be encyclopaedic a sentence such as
should look like (dates and events are fictional):
  • In The Netherlands, Scrubs was first aired by Veronica on February 12, 2005. Due to low ratings the show was moved from the 20.00 to 18.00 slot in April. The last episode of the first season aired on June 15. The second season was aired from August until January 2006. The first 4 episodes of the third season where aired during June, before it was replaced by Grey's Anatomy. Scrubs is scheduled to reappear on January 5, 2007, where double episodes will be aired during the midnight slot.
In several years time and a few reruns later I do not only think this information is nearly impossible to get accurate and complete, but I also sincerely doubt that such information is useful to anyone, and therefore question if it should be included. —Ruud 15:12, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
Whether or not that is the case, I think we're kind of getting away from the main point... International broadcasters sections (all with similar content to the one on this page) are very common to WP TV pages (definitely not universal, but very common). This in itself is a defence of the section on this page. Nwo, your complaint seems to be with the very idea of any TV article having an international broadcasters section, and so it might belong on a discussion on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Television. If the WP television community as a whole agrees with you that lists of international broadcasters do not belong on WP pages, I would be all in favor of removing the section. --Gpollock 00:00, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm indeed opposed to such lists in other articles as well and think would a a good idea to open a wider discussion on this subject. —Ruud 13:41, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
Until such a discussion is completed, I'm going to put the debated section back into the article. This doesn't have to be permanent - it's just that it's currently an acceptable section to have in an article, and it just doesn't look very nice hidden away on the talk page. (I'll also try, sometime in the next few days, to reformat the section to make it a little less unwieldly.) --Gpollock 09:19, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
First off, my dislike of having the broadcast history section. It's not relevant in this case. Some series, like Simpsons and Friends, have/had an incredible lifespan, so a broadcast history section is relevant. Other series, such as Arrested Development, which were in perpetual states of limbo and thus have something interesting to say in those sections, have a relevant need for it (and Arrested Development's broadcast history section is 4 small paragraphs, with only one providing anything in a real list format. Furthermore, it's a featured article, which should be telling about how it's written and formatted). Scrubs has lasted 7 seasons, which, while long in tv terms, isn't alone enough to warrant this. Sure, other pages have it, a whole lot don't. Lost, which is one of the most popular shows in the world, doesn't have one. Seinfeld doesn't have one. Neither do Family Guy, Futurama and South Park. It's existence on other articles isn't reason enough for this section to exist, and even some articles which have reason to have them don't.
That said, while I dislike this section on all pages It should be like it is in most every television article that has this section. There is no reason why it be in the top half of the article (definitely not in the third subhead), and no reason why it should be higher than some of the other sections it takes precedence over in it's current state. Other articles have it in a graphic at the bottom, which is far more desirable than a list in the top half of the article. It looks absolutely horrid in it's current place and unnecessarily takes precedence over elements which actually matter to the television show that it shouldn't. For the one proponent for this feels such a compelling need for it to be in here, could you at least put the section where it really belongs, right above references? Hawk405359 00:03, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Carla Espinosa, Nurse or Head Nurse?

Isnt Carla the Head Nurse of Sacred Heart? I thought it was Laverne, but after searching around I have seen Carla labeled as the head nurse. Since there was a lot of reference to Carla being "just a nurse" i thought labeling her as Head Nurse would be more appropiate. There is a difference between the Head nurse and the other nursing staff right? Flyboyz2000k 05:00, 8 January 2007 (UTC) 10:56 Sunday January 07, 2007, Flyboyz2000k.

I don't think there's anything to distinguish Carla, job-wise, from the rest of the nursing staff, apart from her long tenure. In S4 she rejected a promotion to administrative supervisor and we haven't heard anything about other promotions since. If you can come up with references stating that Carla is a head nurse of some kind, go ahead and put it in, but I think she's not. --Decrypt3 18:58, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
I seem to remember one episode when Carla was talking to Kelso about how she didn't like to talk to Laverne about some things because she is Laverne's superior. I can't recall what episode excatly happened in or if it gave any information to her actual title, but maybe someone else does... Either way, I'll keep my eye open for that episode. Db26 00:12, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
That was in My Screw-Up. There also seems to be some other episodes where she gives orders to other nurses, like when she teaches them about communicating with patients in My Ocardial Infarction. But I'm not sure if we can say for sure that she is Head Nurse. EJB341 22:47, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
Dr Kelso took over as "head nurse" previous in Episode 7 of Season 6, while Carla was away on maternity leave. Technostalgia 21:16, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Yep, that should clear it up, she's head nurse. --Milo H Minderbinder 21:35, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Blue Man Group

Didn't one of the episodes feature the Blue Man Group? (Has it been aired yet?) [7] haz (talk) e 14:39, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

They appeared briefly in 601. --Milo H Minderbinder 15:25, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Turkelton?

I believe that I have heard a few times on the show that Turkelton is the actual surname of Christopher Turk, although I don't really remember in which episodes. I think it was Dr. Kelso calling him "Dr. Christopher Turkelton". Can anyone else back this up? Or was it just Kelso's way of nagging him somehow? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.103.135.30 (talk) 22:54, 11 January 2007 (UTC).

It's Kelso's nickname for him.--NMajdan•talk 01:22, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
I think it was first used in the season finale with the wedding...when Kelso was drunk. --Milo H Minderbinder 14:43, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

The Picture of Dorian Gray

Where was it said that Some of the character's names are drawn from The Picture of Dorian Gray? Two examples are given, but that alone hardly seems like reason enought for it it be definite that this is the origin of the character's names, especially given somewhat common names like Kelso and Dorian. Maybe a citation is needed? Db26 00:12, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

What happened to "List_Of_Scrubs_Relationships"

I tried to access the article today and found it was removed. The link on the main page is also removed. Does anyone know why? Jim Liu 02:00, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

The article has been deleted.--NMajdan•talk 02:07, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
that many keeps and it still was deleted?!? and those comments about savaging prose, exactly how do you do that once its deleted? I just hope all the delete happy people who bombed a well written article actually contribute to wikipedia too MarsRover 03:54, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Was any of it merged into the character pages? --Milo H Minderbinder 16:41, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Not sure. Feel free to comment about the deletion at Wikipedia:Deletion review.--NMajdan•talk 16:48, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
I've saved all the writing from it on my computer, in case we want to create the article again or merge it into character sections. EJB341 22:42, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Jordan

Jordan had been listed as one of the main characters, with a mention of her becoming a regular cast member in Season 5. What's the source for this? As far as I know, Christa Miller/Jordan is still part of the show's "weapons chest" (supporting characters) along with Ted, Doug, Laverne, Todd etc. Jordan didn't feature in all the S5 episodes and didn't have a particularly large role in many of the ones she was in. And I think Bill Lawrence has said on many occasions that Christa Miller didn't want to commit herself too much, so she wouldn't become a regular. EJB341 21:32, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Now I don't post anything on wiki often, but i believe that a few months ago there was a comprehensive list of all Scrubs episodes and names with the seasons, I found it very helpful and useful, someone should put it back on here


The comprehensive list of Scrubs episodes is still here, List of Scrubs episodes. There is a link to it on the main Scrubs page. The burnanator 03:30, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Dramedy or Sitcom?

I've only just noticed that Scrubs is classified as a Dramedy. I believe that it should be a sitcom even if it is a non-traditional one. In interviews of Bill Lawrence and other producers on the special features of DVDs, they all describe Scrubs as being a sitcom. The burnanator 03:28, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't think I've ever heard it described as a dramedy. Usually that term is used for shows like Desperate Housewives or the Sorkin stuff. And not that it's the best test, but google searching for Scrubs with sitcom gets ten times the results of Scrubs with dramedy. --Milo H Minderbinder 13:30, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Trivia...

Under Trivia: "Bill Lawrence has stated on a few occasions that one of the characters other than one on the starring cast list (J.D., Elliot, Turk, Carla, Dr Cox, Dr Kelso, Janitor and Jordan) will be killed off in a future episode. The only clue he has spoken of so far is that the character was there from the start. Note - this may include Kim Briggs, who although only seen in the fifth and sixth seasons, was there 'from the start' (as stated by Turk in her introductory episode) although subconsciously ignored by J.D. since she was married."

Under "My Long Goodbye (6x15)": "Nurse Roberts is in a coma and they don't know when she will wake up. Elliot comes to visit and remembers the times when she was down and Nurse Roberts cheered her up. Carla comes in and tells Elliot not to say goodbye because people have come back from worse. Jordan is giving birth and only gives Dr. Cox 2 hours notice - he immediately starts freaking out."

Under "My Words of Wisdom (6x16)": "The fate of Nurse Roberts is revealed. J.D. treats a deaf patient and learns that Turk knows sign language. They are shocked when the parents refuse a surgical implant that would allow their son to hear."


Together, that would make one assume that the character to be killed off would be Nurse Roberts. Maybe that should be noted in the Trivia Section, seeing as how it's available from currently-existing resources. 65.96.103.25 05:38, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Jill Tracy

The singer in the picture is NOT jill tracy. jill recurs frequent times after the episode in question, and eventually dies in season 5. Kiran90 07:30, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

wait... jill tracy is the actresses name? what a co-incidence.... sorry!! Kiran90 07:32, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

The name of the patient "Jill Tracy" is a hoamge to the actress Jill Tracy. Masterwiki 21:55, 14 April 2007 (UTC)


No Episodes in Season 4

Are there really 26 episodes in Season 4. The list of episodes only shows 25 adn I cant find any listing for 26.

he's right, there's only 25Kiran90 05:08, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Location

In the episode where turk gets a new cell phone number, the number is 916-555-Turk. The 916 area code is the Sacramento area of California. Brjndr 16:18, 27 March 2007 (UTC) Brjndr

This has already been noted at Sacred Heart Hospital where all the clues of the hospital's location are listed. --TM 16:57, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Picture Problem

I'm not sure if anyone realized, but a lot of pictures on the epidsode articles are messed up! I will do all I can to get them back but i can't do it all on my own! I'm no superman.

i almost laughed. --LastmanSAC 01:04, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Cameo

Not sure if I've done it right, but I've added the fact that Colin Hay appeared in 2-1 while playing Overkill. I love that song... Work hard, Play hard, Drink harder 14:04, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

its not necessary to include that here, as he is already listed in the minor characters page, and on the my overkill page--Jac16888 14:17, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Cast

I disagree with specifying only the most recent status of the characters in the Cast list. Certainly J.D., Todd, & Turk were not attendings when the show started. Ventifax 22:57, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

But that could confuse people who have only seen the recent series. Work hard, Play hard, Drink harder 14:16, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Season 7

Is it true that Scrubs will end after the seventh season? I don't believe this claim is true. (MNB)

they were the claims made by zach braff initially, but he recently stated that he would continue if "all the pieces fell into the right place"...that is, if he was given his pay-rise ;) Kiran90 06:48, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

what did i tell you. $350,000 per episode for Zach Braff in season 7..... thats insane. I've referenced the comment. Kiran90 08:03, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

well "insane"? I dont know... didnt everybody in Friends get like $1,000,000 per episode the last season(s)? --chandler 14:29, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Its unclear weather TVland will be airing new episodes (Season 7) or reruns as it states in the rest of the USA networks row of the worldwide airing table. I couldn't find any extra info in the cited source (13) 20:37, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

2nd hospital

should information regarding the hospital elliot worked in during her endocrinology fellowship be included? Kiran90 14:49, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

No not really unless it was filmed inside Sacred Heart (like J.D Appartment) I mean it was only a few epiodes.--Timmy 5000 X 21:03, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

help please

in season 2 episode 13 - My Philosophy Elliot says something about co-ed locker rooms and how she doesent want it

I remember a previous episode where that happen line by line with the same 3 people

anyone know what I am talking aboutLeftkidney 08:01, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Trivia Section

i think that the "contains original research of unattributed claims" warning for the trivia section can now be removed, anyone agree? --Jac16888 17:09, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

also, disagree, with the integrate tag, as all remaining trivia is relevant to the whole show, not one episode or character--Jac16888 22:00, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Response: I highly disagree with removing the Original Research tag. Of 13 total items, all of 4 are cited. That leaves 9 of them without any proof whatsoever. Additionally, the trivia section here is a bit long. I put the "integrate" tag there not because I feel the trivia is irrelevant, but instead because it takes up quite a bit of space. Oh, and for the record, I'm an avid fan of the show. I know that most of the uncited stuff in the Trivia section is, in fact, true... I'm just going by the rules. ColbeagleTheEagle 20:47, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
Fair enough with the Original Research tag, but i don't agree with the intergrate tag, because i feel none of the remaining trivia is integrateable to any specific episodes or characters, besides, there was almost twice as much trivia about a week ago --Jac16888 10:17, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
I agree with you. I do remember the article having massive amounts of trivia. I'm going to remove the "Trauma Center" one (as it's not really relevant to the show and can be seen as an ad for the game in some respects) as well as the tag. Thank you for discussing this with me; it was much appreciated. ColbeagleTheEagle 21:38, 13 April 2007 (UTC)


Thanks for agreeing to remove the integrate tag. (now i just got to work on the orginal research one) --Jac16888 20:06, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Another comment: You don't cite Wikipedia as a reference on articles, especially trivia sections. Whoever did that should see WP:CITE--$UIT 04:13, 26 April 2007 (UTC)


oops, didn't know that. have added proper links now --Jac16888 10:33, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

have sourced all the trivia now, so i have removed the original research tag --Jac16888 12:18, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

After looking at the points in the trivia section, i think that some can be put under 2 new headings: guest appearances and cameo's. The first heading would be the text about Spin City and Clone High with a link to the list of List_of_minor_characters_of_Scrubs#Major_guest_cast. The cameo heading would include the points about Bill Lawrence's best friend, crew members, that the Muppets thingy and My Charlie Brown Christmas. -- azior 09:42, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Transfer of narration in "His/Her/Their Story" episodes

The trivia item about the narration being transferred to other characters contains an error. It states that only "Their Story" did not transfer narration from JD to the other characters by physical contact. Actually, the very first "His Story" also did not use this segue. Instead, JD's internal monologue states that he simply has nothing to talk about today, and the narration is instantly converted to that of Dr. Cox. This item should be fixed in the trivia section, but I can't at the moment think of a decent way of rephrasing it. 204.97.183.31 13:32, 23 April 2007 (UTC)


Think i've sorted this, seems to read ok, but can someone double check it? --Jac16888 11:43, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Fiction noticeboard

A new noticeboard, Wikipedia:Fiction noticeboard, has been created. - Peregrine Fisher 18:21, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

This noticeboard has been deleted per Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Fiction noticeboard. Please disregard the above post. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 11:26, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

81.155.195.104 22:27, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Turk/Turkleton

Turks last name is Turkleton, why does it say Turk as his last name on the page? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.38.10.200 (talk) 17:30, 10 May 2007 (UTC).

no, turks full name is chris turk, but dr kelso mistakenly believes that he's call turk turkleton--Jac16888 18:41, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Kelso was drunk at the time and had been calling him Turkleton for quite a while

In series 6, Bob Kelso decides to change his "nickname" for Turk from Turkleton to Turkleberry

International Original Broadcast Information

Someone should put where the show airs on first around the world. I clearly states where it airs first in the United States (NBC). But not in other countries where it airs on multiple networks. ––Minker 00:22, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

while it would be appropriate, it would be extremely difficult to find out which channel aired it first in each country. its easier to simply have NBC marked as the channel it was first broadcast on--Jac16888 10:55, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

make sense?

does anyone with media knowledge know if this sentence actually makes sense, because the article for "vignettes" doesn't seem to fit.

It uses first-person narration, verbose characters, segues between subplots, fast pace, and surreal vignettes (presented as the thoughts and reveries of the main characters)--Jac16888 10:58, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Organisation

This article seems pretty disorganised. Specifically, I think the sections "Location", "Name" and "Cameo appearances" should be merged into the synopsis somehow. The "Cast" and "Crew" sections would probably benefit from being streamlined – those large lists are difficult to read, and aren't very useful. Adam McMaster 11:26, 26 May 2007 (UTC)e

i agree that the crew section needs to be streamlined, however, the article works better with seperate sections for each one, merging them all into the synopsis would actually confuse the article--Jac16888 16:21, 26 May 2007 (UTC)