Talk:Scientology and other religions

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Scientology and other religions article.
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Articles for deletion This article was nominated for deletion on 2007-08-28. The result of the discussion was keep.

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[edit] ugh

Uh... this POV-fork of an article is ill-advised, ill-conceived, ill-executed, and just plain ill. What's next - Baseballs and other balls? Fudge Stripes and other cookies? Shrubs and other green things?? (I'm assuming here the title "Scientology and other religion" (singular) is a typo.) I don't think there was any kind of a consensus at Talk:Scientology to split this material off. wikipediatrix 01:10, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Why didn't you comment when it was discussed on Scientology talk page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stan En (talk • contribs) 01:26, August 28, 2007 (UTC)
there are multiple other similar articles, see Judaism and Christianity, Islam and Judaism, Relations between Catholicism and Judaism, Mormonism and Judaism, Islam and other religions, Christianity and Islam, Islam and Jainism, Islam and Sikhism, Hinduism and other religions, Hinduism and Confucianism, Buddhism and Hinduism, Hellenism and Hinduism, Hinduism and Sikhism, Ayyavazhi and Hinduism, Christianity and Buddhism, Jainism and Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism, etc, etc. --Krsont 19:40, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] structure

So far the structure of this article consists of nothing but a series of vignettes in which a certain religion is said to have criticized Scientology. In other words, this is turning into List of religions that have criticized Scientology at time or another and that's not good enough for an article. Further, the Roman Catholic section is pure synthesis, and the Fishman bit at the end makes no logical sense being here. wikipediatrix 15:02, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Steve Bruce

The bit about Scientology forbidding prayer has been dragged here from the Scientology article, where it was already disputed. (See here.) According to User:Stan En, he obtained this info from a non-Scn book by Steve Bruce called "Cathedrals to cults" and the HCOPL he cites frowns on meditation which is obviously not the same thing as prayer. (Even atheists can meditate, you know.) Out it goes. wikipediatrix 15:43, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

read the source first. I cited the paragraph and not just meditation with it.-- Stan talk 18:22, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
That doesn't answer my concerns. My question is specifically where did this "prayer" business come from, and exactly what quotations from this Bruce guy and this HCOPL back it up? wikipediatrix 18:26, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
1) It is not my burdon to explain you this and you shouldn't go to editwar only because you "don't believe". 2) There is a Bulletin wich explicit prohibits praying but I can't name it but I already introduced a lot of primary sources and its only a primary source anyway 3) Steve Bruce states that the monetheistic religions and Scientology are all absolutistic and also analyses Scientology with the conclusion that it is not compatible and that other religious practices are not allowed in Scientology and vice versa(he refers espescially to monetheistic religions and the praying stuff). I know it sounds odd because Scientology promotes the opposite but that is only a PR strategy without any truth.4) You obviously can't assume good faith with me! I don't have the book here but if you insist I will go to my library to copy down the quotations even if its not my burdon but yours. 4) You didn't name one source wich contradicts my sourced contribution. -- Stan talk 19:16, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
If you "can't name it", then why are you sticking it back in the article? No sources, no info. If you want it to be in the article, yes, it IS your burden (note spelling) to provide proper sources for it. You've also just admitted that you don't actually have the Bruce book and yet you're edit-warring over it and you're 100% positive that it says what you say it says. We need much more than his opinion regarding such fundamental matters anyway. wikipediatrix 19:23, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
Stay fair ! I said I can't name the actual Scientology Bulletin wich prohibites praying word for word even if I know it exists! But I already named some primary sources wich support my claim and the source I actually inserted is a reliable secondary source wich I did already name. I didn't stick anything back in the article wich was sourced inappropriatly! -- Stan talk 19:43, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
...and I don't have to own the Bruce book. It is good enough that I read it in the library and I already offered you to go back to bring up exact quotations. -- Stan talk 19:45, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

ok, I was wrong about the term praying. I wanted to state that other religious "praying practices" are not allowed in Scientology and used it exclusivly for monotheistic religions without stating that I meant them. I apologize!-- Stan talk 04:19, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Another frictional account

Dropping off a couple refs for later when the article is cleaned up and organized. AndroidCat 19:05, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] RookZERO's edit summaries

User:RookZERO, it took much yelling at you to get you to even leave edit summaries at all, and now you're continually making extremely misleading edit summaries such as this one and this one. They're total reverts and removal of all tags despite the false summaries. wikipediatrix 02:14, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

This sort of thing wouldn't exist if it were a pure revert: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Scientology_and_other_religions&diff=154298617&oldid=154284137. In fact, the edit summary is quite accurate.(RookZERO 02:48, 29 August 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Student Guide to Acceptable Behavior

First paragraph says: "Members are not allowed to engage in other religious activities, such as non-Scientology meditation or prayer, or ceremonies." and References [1] and [2]. The book [1] isn’t online. but probably uses [2] which is mis-referenced but is HCO Policy Letter 15 December 1965R Issue I revised 25 July 1987, STUDENT'S GUIDE TO ACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOR". The policy spells out an an exception to religious practice. Guideline "#14. Do not engage in any rite, ceremony, or any similar religious treatment or mental therapy while on course without the express permission of the Director of Training." (emphasis added) If a student doubts whether his religious activity is a treatment or mental therapy, he should ask. John Fitzgerald Smith 17:36, 26 October 2007 (UTC)