User talk:Schneelocke/Classical composers

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Thank you!! - very interesting page. The following can be quickly un-redlinked, many found when I was working on those four articles/stubs - Busoni -> Ferruccio Busoni Béla Bartók Alexander Borodin Aram Khachaturian Henry Cowell Ernst von Dohnanyi Johann Ladislaus Dussek Alexander Glazunov Leos Janacek Dmitri Borisovich Kabalevsky --- Schissel 23:23, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Great, thanks! ^^ I added redirects for those. Also happens to bring down the number of composers that have articles already to exactly 50%. ^_~ -- Schnee 23:38, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Rightho :) - Admittedly though not unexpectedly quite a few are stub or stubbish! Ah, a few more (me obsessed?)
Etienne Méhul John Bull_(composer) Johann Hiller (for a moment I thought that was Liszt's contemporary, friend then rival, Hiller, but died too early. Hrm! Ok, that's Ferdinand Hiller, no article yet apparently.) Mikhail Glinka Edison Denisov (brief!) Niccolò Jommelli (what makes me feel badly obsessed is that I know who Paul Graener is, or at least have seen a work of his- a quartet in a nice volume that also had quartets by Borodin, Egon Wellesz, Dohnanyi, and others, published around the turn of the last century- for instance, though even in an encyclopedia that really is this large there isn't an entry for him. Ow...) Schissel 01:37, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Thanks. I added redirects for Méhul, Hiller, Glinka, Denisov and Jommelli. ^_^ -- Schnee 16:00, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

[edit] /* Discussion - classical composers */ Thanks again!

(Never made a 'comment' before. Hope this is showing under yours and not overwriting. :( I assume the system would not be so perverse as that...) More fine work- I created a redirect from Isang Yun to Yun Isang but then found that only this page connects to Isang Yun anyway - actually instead of changing yours I'd suggest moving theirs since Isang Yun is, imhonesto, the much more standard of the two. I have never seen Yun Isang out of Wikipedia; I have seen Isang Yun, though not often of course (he is not so well-known, though only relatively obscure, especially since there was once a court case in which he was sentenced to death! and that... etc) in cpo's catalog (they recorded his five symphonies and other works too; I have one disc of his chamber works. Even besides Frankel's music cpo is a busy company :) ), in libraries, in... etc. But that could be debated.

Zemlinski -- Zemlinsky. Specifically Alexander von Zemlinsky

Slight changes, excellent resource - thanks much! Schissel 19:18, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Hehe, thanks. ^.^ I created redirects for the people listed above; the only one I'm not sure about is Wagenseil. Are Johann Christoph Wagenseil and Georg Christoph Wagenseil the same person really, or are they merely related? Anyhow, I also moved Yun Isang to Isang Yun and fixed Simon Sechter in my list (the fact that it was listed as Sechter Simon was a mistake on my side). -- Schnee 19:58, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)
And I'm surprised there's no entry for Reicha, one of the most influential, I believe, 19th century theorists- I gather those notions of sonata form, first subject, second subject, ... that have been taught to analyze classical-era, early Romantic-era, ...works more or less crystallized (as written concepts) with his writings.
Ironically, his own music is often fluid and inventive, while the forms whose analysis he doomed students to studying and student composers to copying were just very smoothed-out observations of what was actually done. (A scientific analogy, Celsius averaging many people's temperatures, finding the average came near to 37 on his thermometer, and rounding this to 37. Then over time and as things do tend to go, '37' became the traditional normal temperature, with slight deviations considered by some to be the beginnings of colds and fevers, whereas of course normal temperature is a range.)
I have this odd creeping feeling I have now - volunteered - myself to writing a Reicha stub. Of course I hope there really is an entry for the father of the wind quintet (such is he *g*) and it's just been missed, due to diacriticals and lack of redirects or whathave...
No idea about Wagenseil- are his dates or any other information (brief worklist) given? (Whoops) Schissel 20:31, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Well, the book *is* not complete - I missed Philip Glass myself, for example, and Benjamin Frankel (which I didn't know about before, though) is not in there, either. As for Wagenseil, he lived from November 26, 1633 to October 9, 1708; I'll check to see if those dates match the ones in the article. There's not much information on him outside of that, though (he only has a four-line entry). -- Schnee 20:36, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Ah, OK, it turns out that the two Wagenseils are different people indeed (so I deleted the redirect again). It looks like Johann might be the grandfather or so of Georg. -- Schnee 20:39, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Good news that and thanks again. Also looked - couldn't believe that no one had written something about Josquin DesPres and did find this under Josquin Des Prez (I say this because his is one of the few Renaissance composers whose names I recognize) ... Emmerich Kalman (another area I'm just about ignorant of, operetta). Also Gaspare Spontini, Alexander Scriabin,Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck, Nicolaus Bruhns Dmytro Bortniansky
(?!?. and finding myself wishing that people would just put in redirects for common spellings. Do they really take up that much space... Particularly an issue with Russian names, Myaskovsky/Miaskovski(i) an example I obviously think of (Mjaskovskij or something- I forget.))
(There's a story about von Klenau in one of Schoenberg's essays... it was odd to reread that story after having heard some of his music too.) Ah. Also an Ole Bull I missed. (I wonder if the criteria for inclusion in this dictionary were about as at least somewhat-random as for some others; of course a list of - for example - famous in their time might be lengthier despite the apparent restrictiveness of the condition. (But then, that sort of datum usually appeals to the hardcore classical fanatic ;) ) On a more (coherent?) point I probably have enough information about one or two(?) of the others to provide half of a stub, the other half being biographical material I usually have to go find. ) Schissel 21:43, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)
*nods* I probably could provide substubs along the lines of "XYZ (aa.bb.cccc - dd.ee.ffff) was a French composer" myself, using the book. For now, thanks for the new links - I created the redirects and will update the stats table at the top of the page now. ^^ -- Schnee 22:06, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Added a redirect from Löwe to (Carl) Loewe and created bio-stubs for Reicha and Ries - thinking though, the statistics table is useful (what does Wikipedia have? etc), but will you want ultimately to merge these lists with the link-lists for composers of different centuries or keep it here? (Hrm. This of mine has a tone I don't like - apologies... more a question for thought I suppose.) Schissel 21:54, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Don't worry about that. ^^ As for keeping the list - well, ultimately, there should be appropriate categories, I think, in which every composer is classified (like Category:French composers, Category:Baroque composers and so on). Ultimately, that's more useful than lists; the main purpose of lists that I can see is that you can see what's missing still, but that role can also be filled by Wikipedia:Requested articles (and wikilinks in the articles themselves). So... ultimately, this page is mostly so that we know what's still missing; the book's editors had to pick the "more important" composers, so it's a good starting point for what Wikipedia should definitely have, too. I won't delete it once the page's purpose is fulfilled, though -- Schnee 23:32, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Agreed, and ah yes, thanks for reminding me of that (evilly says he, noting two possible tpyots in the music section of the Requested articles pages...) (importance to musical history seems to me a good divider if no more easily determined than some others of course. Whether Myaskovsky is important because he taught (I've heard it said, as one of those helpful exaggerations, but would have to go see where) a generation of Soviet composers (including, I was surprised to learn, Yevgeny Golubev, who then taught Alfred Schnittke but aside from which I thought only I'd heard of that fellow- definitely not yet a composer important enough to rate an entry) - well, my opinion is on the record ;) but that doesn't make it so!
The list you have contains quite a few composers I (anyway) would readily agree are very important for several reasons (Glazunov as conductor- infamously in once case if I remember (Rachmaninov sym. 1, leading its composer to a nervous breakdown), as member of the Belaiev circle, as contributor to collaborative works (as part of the Belaiev circle, works like a many-composer quartet called les Vendredis, ...) as well as composer, for instance...)
Interesting useful feature, personal page (and other page) subpages, by the by. Schissel 01:24, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Yeah, aren't they? ^^ I have a few more subpages for various stuff; they're linked to from the bottom of my user page. -- Schnee 01:38, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Returned to this to see if there'd been any filling in, by the way. Well, not any... (started Giovanni Battista Sammartini myself) how much, rather. Did find that a few more pages could be redirected (in the case where there are enough other links to justify creating a redirect, that is. Not just mistakes; I learn more and more how the spelling of one name could vary during a lifetime. I believe there's a page related to the Mozart page about it. And Debussy was de Bussy in at least one early concert notice, though that may not have been a mistake!) to blue-link yet more still...

After the example of this page and Antandrus' watch-page, created one of my own, too, though it's not as large as I'd like to make it, yet. Still, it helps direct my efforts, and that's the point. I have an idea or two what I want to start next. (It's not just by the Google measure that one "should" have a page, and a good one, about Ildebrando Pizzetti, I'd say :). Though a Google search does turn up about 14,500 hits.)

Though there are still enough (encyclopaedic) topics missing to warrant the 'missing music encyclopedia topics' pages, coverage is increasing in this area :) Schissel : bowl listen 04:29, July 14, 2005 (UTC)