Template talk:Schools in Berkshire

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I think the schools should be divided up by LEA and not by ceremonial (or any other type of) county, indeed this template is already called 'WBSchools' - did the WB stand for West Berkshire? -- Joolz 16:22, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes it does. I'm also wondering if indpendant and public schools are the same thing? robertvan1 11:06, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Not in England, where a public school is ipso facto a secondary school, but most independent schools aren't. (Also, a few independent secondary schools are not public schools, chiefly because they aren't members of the HMC). On the first point, see my new thread below, Schools which are not secondary schools. Xn4 17:26, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
On dividing by LEA areas instead of by counties, many notable schools in the UK are independent and therefore don't come under an LEA. I guess the vast majority of schools are to some degree identified with their counties, even if only in the sense of having one as part of their addresses. Also, people do know where their county begins and ends, but not everyone knows the area covered by the local LEA. Xn4 18:50, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Schools without articles

I don't think we should be including schools in this template which don't have articles. I will remove the red-linked schools unless anyone objects. There are lots of other Berkshire schools which don't currently have articles and if we include all of them then the template will get very large. Dahliarose 10:13, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

- It rather depends on the purpose of the template. Is it a list of schools in Berkshire with wikipedia articles, or a list of schools in Berkshire? I'm rather inclined to the second view (though since I added the unarticled Slough schools, I would say that, wouldn't I?). If nothing else, isn't the presence of a red link going to encourage someone with the knowledge to create an article? Perhaps someone could research and advise on what the practice is for other templates.
I should (in all fairness) also point out that there is an article List of schools in the South East of England which would seem to be an attempt to list all schools (including secondaries on Berkshire), regardless of whether they have an article or not. The solution there (which I have failed to follow) seems to be not to link schools with no item. Grblundell 11:06, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
I think this template should provide a list of Berkshire schools with Wikipedia articles. As you say, there is already a List of schools in the South East of England and this is the place to include schools which don't have articles. A lot of the schools there have red links but I think it would be better not to create a link to an article which might never be created. There are rather a lot of schools in Berkshire and I think it unlikely that every school will eventually have an article. This template is a useful point of reference for editors of existing school articles as they can look at other similar schools and see what people have written and what references they have used. I don't see that the inclusion of red links in this template serves any useful purpose. If anything the lack of a reference to someone's school in the template might be more of an incentive to create an article. I've tried to find examples of templates from other counties. Not every county uses such a template. Out of the three I found two have only blue links and one has a mixture of red and blue links. You can see the templates at the bottom of the following pages: Wycombe Abbey School, Beechen Cliff School and Derby Grammar School. I have not done a comprehensive survey and there might well be other templates. To my mind the red links look unsightly and detract from the value of the template. Dahliarose 14:30, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
I'm still not convinced. But as you will see, I've found the obvious way round. Very stubby articles now exist for all state secondary schools in Slough. Hope this helps! Grblundell 19:46, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
Well done! That's much better! Dahliarose 22:08, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Middle Schools

Not all state schools in Berkshire fit into the same model. Windsor runs First-, Middle and Upper (Secondary) schools, with the Middle schools being properly designated Middle-deemed-secondary. I have been bold and annotated the list to this effect. If anyone can think of a neater way of showing this, then please go ahead. Bazza 14:03, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Schools which are not secondary schools

Most of the schools in the Independent paragraph of this template wouldn't call themselves secondary schools, as they have an upper age of thirteen and are, in effect, the primary schools of the independent sector. Some of these prep schools (such as Ludgrove and St George's) strike me as notable enough, though I rather doubt that most non-secondary schools are.

One answer might be to remove the schools in question (Claires Court School, Crosfields School, Dolphin School, Horris Hill School, Lambrook Haileybury, Ludgrove, Sunningdale and St George's School, Windsor Castle). But mightn't it be better to call the template Schools in Berkshire or Education in Berkshire? Xn4 17:26, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

I didn't say anything above about Middle schools, knowing little about them, but they seem to have a rather mixed claim to being secondary schools? Xn4 17:36, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

I think Berkshire schools or Schools in Berkshire would be a better name for this template (Education in Berkshire is too broad). I don't think we need separate headings for independent and public schools. There seems to be a lot of dispute as to which schools actually qualify as "public school", but I think some of the prep schools listed here should really be listed as independent schools rather than public schools. It might be simpler to categorise all private schools as independent schools, but perhaps provide a futher category for preparatory schools. I wonder if we should also be including primary schools in this template. I believe that middle schools are either deemed as 'secondary' or 'primary' schools. Middle schools and prep schools educate children up to the age of 13 or 14 so there is some correspondence with secondary education in comprehensive schools. Dahliarose 19:47, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
This discussion affects all similar templates, such as Norfolk Schools and Education in Nottinghamshire. (I like the second format there, which can include further education, but that's another matter for discussion.) Dahliarose has it about right. It isn't essential to separate independent and public schools, and the question of what is a public school may be best sidestepped, but if there's a good purpose in distinguishing between different kinds of maintained schools (which I think there is, as it helps navigation), then I don't see why the same approach isn't needed for independent schools. I guess the great divide is between primary (prep) and secondary (nearly all often called 'public' by someone, though generally not by the schools themselves, nowadays). Are any kindergarten/pre-prep schools notable? There will always be some schools which aren't quite one thing or the other, but that's how life is. Perhaps a split between Preparatory and Independent (senior) would work? Xn4 03:50, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
The middle school listings as "Middle-deemed-secondary" are the official designations determined by the Department for Education or whatever it's called now. Other middle schools in England may be the same or designated Middle-deemed-primary. Bazza 11:58, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
I've looked for UK schools templates and added all the ones I found to United Kingdom education navigational boxes... it turns out that among Derbyshire Schools, Schools in Essex, Schools in Somerset, etc., Berkshire's is the only template for secondary schools only. Does anyone mind if I move it to Schools in Berkshire, per Dahliarose? Xn4 15:57, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
Correction to the above, there's also Buckinghamshire Secondary Schools, which I see Dahliarose added to the category today. Xn4 16:42, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
Yes do go ahead. Would it be possible at the same time to change the format to that of Template:Leicestershire Schools? Virtually all the county templates use this bold format for the school types. It's much easier to read than the format we have here. It's been suggested at WikiProject Schools that we use the terminology Independent (senior) and Independent (preparatory) (as per the Times Educational Supplement). Shall we change to that system? Could you possibly add primary schools at the same time? Dahliarose 21:02, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
On second thoughts it might be best to hold for the moment. We might be getting a new shiny collapsible template which will be standardised for all the counties. Dahliarose 23:27, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
On what you say about Independent (senior) and Independent (preparatory), that sounds all right to me. On the 'new shiny collapsible template', a standard one strikes me as a good idea, so long as it isn't too rigid and allows for local differences where necessary. Is there a discussion somewhere about the shape (and form of title) this template would take? Regards, Xn4 13:22, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

You can find the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Schools. All contributions would be welcome. Dahliarose 13:32, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Secondary modern schools

I've been going through the schools on the template adding on the Template:Infobox GB school and filling in blanks... It turns out Langleywood School is a Secondary Modern [1] according to the DHCS data. St. Joseph's Catholic High School (Slough) also falls into this [2]. I've not encountered any others yet but if I do I'll list them here. Should these be moved to a new section of the template for Secondary Moderns? CR7 21:06, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Oh! There are more! Wexham School [3]; Westgate School [4]; Slough & Eton Church of England School [5] and Baylis Court School [6]. All the data proving that the schools are secondary moderns is recent so it's unlikely to be wrong and it's straight from the government's mouth. Because there are six of them I've put them in their own section. Does anybody think this is unsatisfactory? CR7 21:36, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
Not at all, it's very sensible. Xn4 20:24, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Independent schools

In a similar effort to CR7's, have divided them up as discussed on this page above.

This strikes me now as a very good template, and I have put it forward at Talk:WikiProject Schools as a possible model for other counties. Xn4 22:37, 6 August 2007 (UTC)