Talk:Schiltron

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Contents 1 Stub/Merge 2 Etymology 2.1 You're such a square 3 WPMILHIST Assessment

[edit] Stub/Merge

It seems like the page has become extensive enough to allow the removal of the "stub" marking. At the very least, it already contains more information than any other article about schiltrons that I've seen in general encyclopedias. Lay 12:12, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. Also, I've merged in the Shiltron entry. JJL 18:17, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Etymology

I put the word here, because I'm not sure enough to edit the page proper... but given Scottish history, and the fact the word dates back at least to 1.000 AD, would the "shield" part not be more likely to come from the Norse than from the Saxon or English? (granted, the word sounds alike in all languages concerned). --Svartalf 18:47, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] You're such a square

I rewrote this:

" In fact, the traditional use of the schiltron resulted in a crushing defeat for the Scots at Falkirk (1298)."

to this:

"Bruce's new tactic was a response to a crushing defeat for the Scots at Falkirk (1298), when the traditional use of the schiltron failed in the face of English (actually Welsh) archers."^[1]

and this:

"Tactically, schiltrons are the forebears of the Napoleonic age's infantry squares, in which infantry regiments fought at the Battle of Waterloo when attacked by Ney's French cavalry."

to this:

"Tactically, schiltrons are the descendants of the tercios of the 16h Century and forebears of the Napoleonic infantry squares, which both used pikemen to defend against cavalry."

---

Napoleonic squares were intended as static defensive formations; schiltoms were frequently - even usually - used in the attack - Bannockburn/Myton/Culblean etc.

1. ^ Spencer-Churchill, Winston L. A History of the English-Speaking Peoples, Volume 1, The Birth of Britain (New York: Bantam Books, 1974, 12h printing), p.225.

I base this in part on the Spanish square page, & in part on Dupuy, Evolution of Weapons & Warfare. Technically, the tercio can be called a development of the original Babylonian phalanx (commonly credited to Macedon). Trekphiler 01:01, 28 February 2007 (UTC) (BTW, the Spencer-Churchill is technically correct.)

The schiltron can't be a development of the 16th Terrico given that er're discussing it's 13/14th century use!

[edit] WPMILHIST Assessment

Is this term used widely in general discussions of historical tactics? Or is it specifically applied only to the Scottish case? If the latter, this should be made more obvious in the introduction. e.g "Schiltron is a Scottish term for...." LordAmeth 23:33, 14 May 2007 (UTC)