Talk:Schapelle Corby/archive

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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Someone's gone through and vandalised the article by inserting random gibberish. Think I've got rid of most of it. - M.C. Brown Shoes

what about the astrology links? what gives? --Morbid-o 12:32, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Neutrality of language?

The use of boldface for $1,000,000 reward is rather sensational.

Captainmax 06:56, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Agree. Bollar 01:53, Apr 19, 2005 (UTC)

"Some commentators have pointed out that a bomb could be hidden in a piece of luggage as easily as a package of marijuana."

That's getting fairly off topic. Aioth 12:09, Apr 19, 2005 (UTC)

Ohh, come on..Neutrality of the language? If we start like that, nothing is really neutral, is it? The article is well written, and I can tell you that it is much more neutral that it could/should(?) be. -- 129.67.105.56 (talk · contribs) 11:50, Apr 21, 2005 (UTC) ^diff

Indeed, that's why the NPOV notice was removed. Check the history of the page and you'll see some deleted statements which made value judgements based on scant evidence. Captainmax 01:23, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Does anyone object to the nuetrality tag being removed now? Robertbrockway 06:12, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I do want to remove the POV tag as soon as we can. Do we have far to go to reach a concensus which would allow this? Robertbrockway 05:29, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Encyclopedia?

Would this be more appropriate in Wikinews?

Aioth 12:01, Apr 19, 2005 (UTC)

I would say no, since it's unlikely that the case will die away quickly, and has significance in Australia that reaches beyond present circumstances. Slac speak up! 13:19, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

There's no doubt this has galvanized Australia. My relatives in Qld. send me something on her everyday. I think this is the appropriate place. Bollar 13:46, Apr 19, 2005 (UTC)

How about in propaganda -- 202.173.144.102 (talk · contribs) 12:16, Apr 19, 2005 (UTC) ^diff

Claims section

I would just like to say that everything I read in the Wikipedia regarding Schapelle Corby made me sick! They are supposed to NOT be biased yet they STRONGLY IMPLY she is guilty giving some pathetic politically correct bullshit argument as to why we should support a brutal and fascist legal system! This is the last time I will use Wikipedia!

This reads like the case for the defence! Where's the prosecution? Where are the details of the accusation?

See the opening paragraph. I don't really know what more we can relate. The case for the prosecution is simply that somebody didn't plant it on her. The case for the defense is that somebody did. Do we really have to say "The prosecution believes, however, that nobody planted the evidence".? Slac speak up! 01:39, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Yes, actually, you do. You have to avoid sounding like you are actually making the case for the defence. You have to try to produce something that an Indonesian would feel fairly represented the case. Grace Note 00:10, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

One of the major reasons this has become a cause célèbre in Australia is that that (the stuff currently on our front page) is the prosecution case; that's all they've got. And on the other hand, the stuff that "reads like the case for the defence" actually barely begins to cover the defence case. Securiger 20:42, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Personally, I believe there are many reasons it has become a cause célèbre here. Have you read transcripts of the prosecution's case? Does anyone have them? Are you suggesting that the prosecutor stood up and said there were drugs in her bag, end of story. Did they not interrogate her? Did they not present statements? Grace Note 00:10, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

But even better than that, this in "Public Reaction": "Belief in Corby's innocence is reportedly widespread in the Australian population." Have you asked them all? Has anyone? Give quotes if you mean that newspapers have said so. Grace Note 01:29, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I agree with this. It's the people "outraged" at her being in gaol that are the ones expressing their opinions. The rest of us who know she is guilty don't have much to say, because we've seen the course of justice run true. I wouldn't bother wasting money on a phone poll to express what I know the judges are going to deliver.

I concede that this is difficult. It's matter of "soft coverage" rather than opinion page pieces. The intention of that assertion is to state that the coverage is mildly pro-Corby. Given all we have to rely on is the coverage, it's extremely difficult to do otherwise. Slac speak up! 01:39, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Just quote the coverage, Lacrimosus. Don't make it look as though you are doing the opining. If people are saying so, then quote them saying so. I'm sure you could find something in the Courier-Mail saying Schapelle is innocent. Grace Note 02:00, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Sure. I wrote the sentence you cite in one of the early edits. To be honest I believe plenty of wikipedia pages loosely cover media coverage with a sentence like this but I'm happy for it to be changed. I started the article and I do believe Schapelle Corby is innocent. Having said that I have tried to be NPOV.

Grace, do you have other specific concerns relating to neutrality, or was it just the sentence you cite? Robertbrockway 05:56, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I have outlined them on User talk:Lacrimosus. I'll be willing to help fix them when I have time. I don't doubt that most Aussies feel Schapelle is innocent. However, it'd be better to show that for a fact, rather than give it as an opinion. Grace Note 07:16, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Grace Note, one problem is that newspapers don't do "guilty or innocent" type polls, which are probably illegal and certainly risk contempt of court. A number of polls have been done which indicate general sympathy with her plight; the only polls I am aware of that specifically asked about guilt or innocence were by bloggers, and hence unlikely to be scientifically reliable. But I would certainly support Lacrimosus, in that my anecdotal experience is also that the great majority feel not merely that Corby is innocent, but that the charges are absurd (the AFP has confirmed that smuggling cannabis from Australia to Bali is loss making deal, probably to the tune of AUD 28,000 to 36,000 in this case). However, if at all possible it really would be good if the public opinion aspect could be somehow covered in this article, because it's quite important; there's significant muttering about this case damaging the delicate nature of Indo-Australian relations, or finally killing off the struggling Balinese tourist industry. Securiger 20:42, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Securiger, your anecdotal evidence is original research. If you cannot find a source for saying it, you may not say it. I recognise that sourcing it is difficult but adhering to this rule is the only way of keeping our personal feelings about things out of our articles. Grace Note 23:22, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I think calling this original research is a bit of a stretch, Gracenote. I could frankly care less about the case, but if you read any of the media coverage, I think you'll see that this summary is justified. There's been a lot of the concern Securiger notes, as well as quite a few letters to the editor and the like along the lines of "if she's found guilty, we should cut diplomatic ties with Indonesia", and very little coverage of any sort implying that she's guilty, or taking the Indonesian side at all. Ambi 23:39, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Then it would present no problem at all to cite it, would it? I don't doubt there is sympathy for Corby. I'm living in Brisbane and I'm well aware what the coverage has been like. But your and my impression is something Wikipedia doesn't include, any more than you'd include your impression of anything else. Are you suggesting that letters to the editor are a suitable source of analysis of events for Wikipedia? Apart from anything else, a letter to the editor does not represent the views of the general populace. It represents a/ the views of whoever wrote it and b/ as far as this is considered acceptable by the editor of whichever newspaper it appeared in. I say, quote the Courier-Mail saying this stuff, don't just let's suggest our mates down the pub are saying it. Grace Note 23:57, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

This seems like a really pointless thing to spend time researching and citing. What's next -- a cite that the sun is up? Why not confine this sort of careful citation practice where it really matters, e.g. about the facts of the case. --Dhartung | Talk 21:41, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Well, if I see your personal opinion about the sun in that article, I'll be sure to question you there. Cite it or leave it out. Grace Note 22:31, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Downer's remarks

Read the article carefully. Downer actually suggests that it is positive that she has had her sentence reduced from death. He does not say it can be reduced. The ABC interprets him that way. For Downer's stance on the trial, which far from being particularly positive, is diplomatic, see [1]. It should be clear from that that while the gov't don't want Schapelle to be killed, and you can probably conclude they don't want her to have life for the crime, they are happy to allow Indonesia to make its own decision. What he says they are doing is trying to make sure she has as fair a trial as possible. Grace Note 02:47, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The Defence Case

It is my understanding that Ford has no previous convictions. This I recall from previous reports. I just had a look and couldn't find any documents confirming this either way. I have removed the claim he is a "many times convicted criminal" pending a supporting report (either way). Robertbrockway 06:09 Apr 24 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, yes, confused him with Vigenser. Ford is yet to be convicted of anything. My apologies. Grace Note 07:24, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The Picture

I've put the image back in. I think the image is an accurate representation of Corby's current situation but I wish to propose a compromise (to avoid the article being left without an image again).

Grace Note makes a comment in User talk:Lacrimosus that the image should be replaced by a headshot. Such a head shot was uploaded by myself at the same time as the current image. I think it is an inferior image but would accept it as a compromose. The head shot can be found at Image:SchapelleCorbyInCellCloseUp.jpg. A third image can be found at Image:SchapelleCorbyAtAirport.jpg. I would not object to one of the alternative images being used at the top of the article with Image:SchapelleCorbyInCell.jpg being lower down. Robertbrockway 04:31 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Hi, Robert. I think the picture is a bit much to head the article with, that's all. I'd have absolutely no problem with using one of the other images up the top and the jail cell one lower down. Grace Note 04:57, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

No problem :) I was just going to suggest the same thing (as per your earlier suggestion on User talk:Lacrimosus. No hard feelings :) Robertbrockway 04:59 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Ok, I misunderstood. Image:SchapelleCorbyAtAirport.jpg has been removed too. We only have 3 images. The one to not appear (Image:SchapelleCorbyInCellCloseUp.jpg) so far is a head shot but it is behind bars. It is not a good image IMHO. Thus we'd be left with no image at the top (which I do not like). Surely Image:SchapelleCorbyAtAirport.jpg isn't that bad, as it does appear on a number of web sites. Robertbrockway 05:05 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Just replying to Grace's comments on User talk:Robertbrockway. I will try to extract a facial/upper body image from Image:SchapelleCorbyAtAirport.jpg but not sure how it will turn out. This won't be tonight though :)

Regarding contacting the family again. I'd rather not. They have a lot on their plate and I don't want to bother them. Robertbrockway 05:14 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the understanding you've shown, Robert, and the effort you've put into it. I really appreciate that. Grace Note 05:21, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

No problem and you too. We're all after the same thing in the end (NPOV high quality encyclopedia, etc) even if we may disagree at times ;) Robertbrockway 05:25 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I'm happy with the current placement of Image:SchapelleCorbyInCell.jpg. Robertbrockway 05:33 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

With due respect and regard to all the informed comment as above, it is not out of character nor off topic to show images of Schapelle in an extreme emotional state in the context of an encyclopaedic entry about her. We would not otherwise know of Ms Corby in a global sense without her misfortune. A subject's reaction to circumstance builds the reader's understanding of story; such is not much more evident than in Corby's case. It's news now; pretty soon it will be history. That's what encyclopaediae do best. -- 211.30.134.147 (talk · contribs) 11:21, Apr 27, 2005 (UTC) ^diff

Beauty therapist

What is a beauty therapist? Taco Deposit | Talk-o to Taco 17:25, Apr 28, 2005 (UTC)

HTH. Grace Note 23:00, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The chances of her not being sentenced to death are very low.

Please cite a source for this in the article or offer some further proof other than the statement itself. It's a potentially POV statement. Moncrief 02:46, May 7, 2005 (UTC)

The Official Schapelle Corby Support Website

I'd like to avoid the on-again off-again editing of a link to this site. Ie, I'd like consensus.

My proposal: We leave the site in but clearly state it is partisan/biased (exact wording to be established). We could even add a site with the opposing view if we could find one. Thoughts? Robertbrockway 09:10, May 8, 2005 (UTC)

No. It's not even informative. It's purely campaigning and, worse, ephemeral. I don't think we should publicise it at all. Grace Note 09:18, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

This is an obviously appropriate link (regardless of your opinion re her guilt/innocence), and should be included. I don't agree with the use of the words "partisan" or "biased" — how about "Official Support Website" like it says? I'm open to including critical links, too. — Davenbelle 09:26, May 8, 2005 (UTC)

This is not a POV issue. The official, Corby family authorised site can be expected to be nothing other than biased toward Schapelle Corby. It belongs as is. If non-official sites are listed, opposing views may be appropriate for balance (if there WAS such a thing as a "shootSchapelleCorby.com" site). However, the family's own site is core information about the subject and can not logically be subject to balance. Grace shows intrinsic bias against Corby and should cease vandalising this article by removing pertinent information. -- 211.30.134.147 (talk · contribs) 12:18, May 8, 2005 (UTC) ^diff

I don't have any "bias against Corby". I'm for an objective article that sticks within the NPOV policy. The family's site has no information on the subject beyond what's here and should not be linked to. Worse than its utter lack of substance is that it is ephemeral. It's about "Schapelle is innocent", which will cease to be an issue if she is a/ released or b/ shot. This article is not called "Schapelle Corby is innocent", I'd like to remind those editors who believe it should be and promote advocacy for Corby. Grace Note 12:59, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

The article per se obviously needs to refrain from advocating Corby's innocence, but simply including the link is not advocacy. I'd be all for trimming-down the rather verbose linked text. FYI, I'm far from convinced of her innocence. Grace Note, please refrain from removing the link while this discussion is occurring. — Davenbelle 13:15, May 8, 2005 (UTC)

All: I've posted a request at Wikipedia:Requests for comment. — Davenbelle 13:38, May 8, 2005 (UTC)

Adding this issue to Requests for Comment is a good idea IMHO. I think the site should be included as a link because it is the official site of one party to the issue which has brough Corby fame (and thus prompted the creation of the article). I hold this position regardless of my personal belief on the innocence of Corby. As a matter of fact I think the site is pretty bad and probably doesn't help the pro-Corby position much at all. Regardless of this I want consensus above all else. I will neither add nor remove the link at any future time. Robertbrockway 23:24, May 8, 2005 (UTC)

"Pretty bad" is right. It simply isn't informative at all. We should not be linking to the site of "one party to the issue" when the issue is a court case! It's outrageous. The idea of a link in Wikipedia is to provide the reader with further information. There is no further information at that site. It's simply advocacy, which Wikipedia ought not to promote. Grace Note 00:14, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

The official website of the subject of the article is a logical and obvious choice for inclusion in the external links section. The article should be NPOV of course, but there's no requirement that the content of each and every link be NPOV. Gamaliel 03:02, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

Why? Give reasons. It's not the "official website" of the subject of the article. Did you even look at it? It's the Free Schapelle Corby website, supported by Mr Bakir. What requirements do you suggest links should meet? Should we just include a link to any page about a particular subject? I suggest the standard is that we ought to link only to pages that are informative for the reader. We know that her family thinks she should be released. The article here says so. We don't learn anything new from the website. Grace Note 03:14, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

No, we shouldn't link to "any page about a particular subject" and nowhere do I remotely suggest such a thing. But I do think we should link to any page that is the official website of the subject of the article simply because it is the official website of the subject of the article. In that particular instance, and in that particular instance only, I think issues of the POV of the site and how informative the site is are secondary. I think the reader would expect such an obvious link to be in the article. Gamaliel 03:57, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

Surely we're not the first to encounter this problem. Can anyone provide examples of Wikipedia articles where the "official site" for one or both sides of an issue are or are not included as links at the bottom of the article? Robertbrockway 05:28, May 9, 2005 (UTC)

See: Rachel Corrie#Memorials and ISM statements — Davenbelle 06:46, May 9, 2005 (UTC)

In Defense of Spelling

Defense is American English, while defence is used in all other English-speaking countries. Note the latter redirects to the former. The last edit changed the former to the latter; which is appropriate here? Stephen Compall 19:28, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

I would have thought the Australian spelling was appropriate since the subject of the article is Australian. Note Wikipedia has no preference - Wikipedia:How_to_copy-edit#Correcting_spelling. --AYArktos 22:30, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

That's not true about having no preference. We precendent, and in this case, Australian English should prevail. (Or Indonesian English, if there is such a thing). func(talk) 22:19, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

Article structure

I think a bit of tidying up is needed particularly in the section on conduct of the case - we have two topics: the legal issues and the media reporting both in Austrlaia and Indonesia and we seem to toss backwards and forwards between the two. In particular the paragraph on the preganancy test is out of place. --AYArktos 00:33, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

Missing court proceedings

Why wasn't the court proceedings posted here. I understand that it was an open court and what was said in the court could be posted in public. What I really wanted to know is this "Did she pickup her bogie bag from the carousal and went through custom before she has taken by the police? Or did the custom officers took her bogie bag first and asked her "is this bag yours?". "

Death Penalty

I hate to confess my ignorance, but today is the first time I've heard of this story. What strikes me about our article is a lack of discussion regarding the death penalty. Most western countries do not employ a death penalty for non-violent crime. Does anyone have facts/statistics on Indonesian and/or Australian penalties for drug-related crimes? func(talk) 22:16, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

Australia abolished the death penalty in 1973. In 1986, two Australians were convicted of possessing about 150 grams of heroin each in Malaysia and executed. The Prime Minister of the time called Malaysians 'barbarians', and there was much ill-feeling. see [2] for some more info.

According to Use of death penalty worldwide, Australia abolished the death penalty in 1985. So far as I can tell, 1973 was the year that the federal government passed legislation. The states followed by 1985, I don't know if the federal law preempts the state law. I'm going to change the 1973 to 1985. If I'm wrong, then Use of death penalty worldwide needs to be fixed too. --81.178.104.80 11:17, 27 May 2005 (UTC) Someone has removed the mention of 1973 before I could change it. --81.178.104.80 11:20, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Refer to the Barlow and Chambers execution article. -- Longhair | Talk 13:15, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

Federal Law over-rides State Law, yes.

According to this PDF, NSW was the last state to abolish the death penalty, which was in 1985. Queensland abolished in 1922, Tasmania in 1968, the Commonwealth in 1973, Northern Territory in 1973, Victoria in 1975, South Australia in 1976, ACT in 1983 and Western Australia in 1984. I'm something of the maintainer of Use of death penalty worldwide so I will add it to the page to clarify the situation there. Evil Monkey∴Hello 01:02, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC)

I'm not sure how the Australia legal system works, but this is my understanding of how the USA death penalty works. Even in a state where the death penalty has been abolished, you can still be executed if convicted of a federal crime. I may be completely wrong but a similar situation may have existed in Australia, where you could have been convicted of a state crime in NSW and executed, even though the death penalty had been abolished for federal crimes. Evil Monkey∴Hello 01:12, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC)

If Federal Law over-rides State Law in all cases where they are in conflict [3], then effectively the death penalty was voided from '73. The Death Penalty Abolition Act 1973 It's something of a moot point, though, as the last Australian to be sentenced to death by Australian law was executed in 1967 (Ronald Ryan). The act itself says 'where we would have previously considered death, take it to read life imprisonment instead', although not in those words. Why it took three of the states until '85 to catch up, I don't know. Interestingly, the current PM, John Howard, called for a public debate on the abolition of the death penalty in 2003, during the trial of Amrozi (the leader of the Bali bombings)

HTML comments

Someone seems to be using HTML comments inappropriately in the article. We have the article history to preserve provisionally removed text, the talk page for discussion and the edit summary for notes about changes made. Please do not use  for any of these things. Below are the items I found and removed:

a link to Image:SchapelleCorbyAtAirport.jpg
A Gold Coast business man, Ron Bakir, is personally funding a significant part of Corby's defence. Bakir claims to have no relationship to Corby other than being from the same city
Media interest in the Corby case is intense
On 21 April the trial reconvened (with Corby receiving a sedative before her appearance).
Corby was compelled to take a pregnancy test due to a Bali newspaper's claiming she was sick from being pregnant to another foreigner in the jail. The result of the test showed she was not pregnant.
A verdict is expected towards on May 27. Chief Judge Siriat has told an Australian newspaper that he has not heard anything to prove Corby is innocent. [6]

-- Tim Starling 09:46, May 26, 2005 (UTC)

Guilty

Guilty :'(

   :(  Robertbrockway 03:56 27 May, 2005

I'm interested to hear what people think about the very question asked of her step-brother on live television this afternoon. Ignoring the verdict for a moment, do you think the Australian media hampered her trial, or helped? -- Longhair | Talk 04:05, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

I really doubt that the Australian media helped her. 210.50.202.129 07:49, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Certainly not Channel Nine (Nein!) and their supposed 'journalism' (sensationalistic tripe, more accurately - the result of which is polarisation).--Cyberjunkie 08:24, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

The media didn't really impact on the decision. She was guilty, at the very least, the evidence strongly pointed to her guilt. All the media did was force Australia to follow the capture, trial and sentencing of a young woman knowing they were going to feel bad for her, and now we have a situation where a lot of people are angry and upset over what is a pretty standard case of being caught with drugs and going to prison. Not to mention the massive white-supremist racism that has quickly surfaced from Australians, acting like Aussies should be above the law of some "primitive monkeys" and so on. And yes, Channel. 9 and Mike Monroe have the most to answer for.

As a former Queensland Police Officer I take issue with some of these remarks. The presence of the drugs alone presents a prima facie case but it does not necessary mean guilt under Australian law (due to reasonable doubt). I have serious issues with the chief judge repeatedly saying things like "The defence team were not able to prove innocence". In any reasonable legal system the onus must be on the prosecution as far as I'm concerned (and yes I know about Code de Napoleon).

We're talking about a court case where the customs officers screwed up finger print evidence. I can tell you that if a customs officer or police officer did that in Australia they would be in very serious trouble - it could even see the case thrown out. As far as I'm concerned the prosecution's case was based on scant evidence: far below the level of evidence I needed to successfully charge someone in Australia when I was a police officer. This provides reasonable doubt for me and this is why I am angry that she was found guilty.

The Indonesian people are suffering under a legal system that has not demonstrated fairness. By his own admission the chief judge has presided over more than 500 drugs cases and not once has he found a person not guity. Combining this fact with the poor level of evidence gathering demonstrated leaves me unable to respect the legal system of Indonesia. It just doesn't add up. I believe many innocent people are being convicted by the Indonesian legal system - far more than we would see in the Australian system. This is not ok by me.

It is simplistic to assume that just because people are criticising the Indonesian legal system they are criticising Indonesians. Your comments regarding the view Australians have of Indonesians are misrepresenting genuine concerns many people have with the proceedings of the court case. Robertbrockway 07;29 June 2, 2005.

Reading the Article

So far 2 people have put the verdict in without realising I'd already done so. I wish people would read the article before posting :) If you think the verdict should go somewhere else then remove the other places it is mentioned.

Robertbrockway 04:20 27 May, 2005

Perhaps, then, a separate section should be created?--Cyberjunkie 08:26, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Pictures

I have requested a copyright free photograph of Schapelle for the article from her family through schapellecorby.net. Robertbrockway, 22:48 Mar 27, 2005 (UTC)

I was contacted by Mercedes Corby last night and given permission to use 3 images. All were uploaded to Wikipedia and one is currently in use in the article. Robertbrockway, 03:30 Mar 29, 2005 (UTC)

I have screenshots (from news coverage) of the sentencing, that I will upload and provide for use if anyone thinks them necessary.--Cyberjunkie 08:29, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Go ahead. Sadly, the "used with permission" pictures we have aren't under Wikipedia's guidelines anymore. -- user:zanimum

Zanimum, how do you mean they are not under the guidelines anymore? Is this an issue of copyright? I can go back and see exactly how Mercedes Corby phrased permission to use in the email. Robertbrockway 22:07 27 May, 2005 (UTC)

Ok, after looking at the pictures in question and seeing the "soon to be deleted" tag I reviewed the email from Mercedes Corby. I don't like posting sections of a private email but I will post as little as possible to establish our right to use and distribute the pictures:

I emailed Mercedes Corby and said "I'd like to use a picture in the article. Would you be able to provide a picture of Schapelle that can be legally used in the Wikipedia article (ie, without copyright concerns)? If such a picture is available just email it back to me".

Mercedes Responded (in part): " Attached is a photo taken at Schapelle's cell. This was taken by our camera.. Also if you are able to find the photo on the web of Schapelle, brother James and 2 freinds Katrina and Ally that was taken by Mums camera at the Brisbane airport so that one is fine to use aswell."

Attached to this email from Mercedes were 2 of the 3 images I uploaded to Wikipedia, the 3rd being the mentioned group image which I did locate.

After reviewing the wording of my request and Mercedes' response it is my contention the pictures are licenced under the GFDL. Robertbrockway 22:15 27 May, 2005 (UTC)

They certainly aren't, since you didn't even mention the license in your e-mail. Ausir 13:42, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

I found this public domain image we can use instead of the non-free one. anthony 12:48, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

But what evidence is there that it is public domain? We can't assume that it is just because there's no copyright message. In any case, I think that that picture, being used as it is by her supporters to garner sympathy for the quote "Australian Beauty," means that it's hardly a neutral image. The one of her in her cell by comparison is more neutral. Slac speak up! 21:44, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The evidence that it's in the public domain is that the page I got it from says "This work is in the public domain". I don't see it as any less neutral than that other shot, which doesn't matter anyway, because the other shot can't be used - it's not free. anthony 00:31, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Personally, I find the whole idea that images explicitly licensed for use on Wikipedia must be removed from it on the basis that they can't be used outside of Wikipedia wholly bizzare. I'd like to think that this policy is based on some sort of consensus rather than Jimbo's personal whim, so if someone could direct me to the place where that consensus was established, I'd be grateful.

But I digress. To be blunt: I know the Indymedia page says that, but I find no particular reason to believe it. Gabrielle Reilly or her associates uploaded that photo to Indymedia. In so doing, you can assume, they asserted it was PD. But what right did they have to assert that? Did they have copyright over the photo to begin with, or did someone else possess it? Speaking as someone who's seen copyright-violation images uploaded to an Indymedia site before, I'm suspicious. Asserting something is PD merely because it appeared on Indymedia is no more valid than assuming an image that a random editor uploads here automatically complies with Wikipedia copyright policy. The ultimate source of the picture is plainly not Chicago Indymedia - until that ultimate source is revealed, I think it's invalid for us to make assumptions about copyright. Slac speak up! 00:53, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Well, Wikipedia was supposed to be a free encyclopedia. At this point I don't really care any more. I've provided what I believe to be is a public domain image. If Wikipedians would prefer to use a non-free image, there's nothing I'm going to be able to do to stop you. But at least you should remove the hypocritical statements from all over your website, claiming to be "the" free encyclopedia, when you aren't even "a" free encyclopedia. anthony 15:17, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Media coverage of the verdict

Something that might be added about the wide involvment of the medias in regard to the case is the fact that last friday in Sydney (the 27th), 3 of the five channels (ABC, 7 & 9) on free TV were showing the verdict live. On the others, network 10 were doing update during the adds and SBS was showing a news program from abroad (as is the regular programing at that time).

This is not meant with any subtext whatsoever, just a good example of the impact the case seem to have had in australia. --Marc pasquin 01:42, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Neutrality?

"There are also allegations that the attention and sympathy especially from the Australian public and media may be related to xenophobic sentiment and a unfair mistrust of Asian legal systems. Also, many think there was no motive for Corby to transport marijuana from Brisbane to Bali where the value is far less, and where it is readily available on the street not far from her prison (and even within it), i.e. it would be like smuggling ice to Eskimos."

This seems POV to me. (Of course, in the interests of full disclosure I believe that she is guilty).

I added some referencing to a Sydney Morning Herald article where it was alleged that Australian marijuana (in particular hydroponically grown marijuana) sold quite well in Bali for a few reasons:

Indonesian marijuana is quite poor in quality - rich tourists generally prefer the Australian stuff.
Due to the lack of entrapment laws in Indonesia, tourists can often be caught by Balinese police stings - and so prefer to buy their marijuana off other whites, who are less likely to be members of the Indonesian police.

I can understand the text on the (turns out to be non-lethal) white powder being sent to the embassy being removed. I believe that even though a link hasn't been established between the two events that this incident will have a bearing on the case, and especially its portrayal (spelling?) in Indonesia, but I can see why the lack of a clear connection between the two events has led to its removal.

That said, I cannot understand why the text on "smuggling ice to Eskimos" is allowed to remain whereas the text from the Sydney Morning Herald, a respected (within Australia at least) news source is not. If the view that there would be no point smuggling marijuana to Indonesia is allowed to remain, why not the view that there would be a point, especially if that view is put forward by a major Australian newspaper? The article seems POV and biased in favour of Corby to me.

150.203.2.60 04:52, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, forgot to log in. Such a newb. :-( / :-D

GeorgeBills 04:53, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

OK, sorry about that, ignore me. It's been re-added by someone with a much more well written and properly grammatical form. Thanks whoever that was.

GeorgeBills 04:56, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Previous offer of QCs rejected?

"After the verdict, Downer also revealed that the government had provided financial assistance for Corby's defence and that an offer of two Queen's Counsel had been rejected. In the same interview, he renewed this offer in the event of an appeal and urged the Corby family to accept."

The reference linked to at the end of this paragraph, [7], does note the government's financial assistance for Corby's defence. But it does not state that there was ever any offer of two QCs for the original trial. It only states that the QCs were offered for the appeal. If no one can provide a reference for this other claim, I am going to delete it. --Susurrus 00:38, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I found this which disputes the Australian government ever offered any legal help at all. The article also says 'Foreign Minister Alexander said the offer had also been made in the past but was turned down.' -- Longhair | Talk 01:00, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

That is a trifle vague, but at least it does put forward that claim. I will therefore use that reference as well at the end of the above passage. --Susurrus 02:23, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Excised text

I have removed from the article the following section:

Jokes which spread quickly by way of the Internet have a habit of emerging after an event, and the Schapelle Corby case is no exception. Some of the jokes currently doing the rounds:

I went past Schapelle's beauty clinic in Queensland and there's a sign up saying "Back in 20".
Hear about the new lawnmower, the Victa Corby? Holds 4kg of grass and guaranteed to run for 20 years.
There's a new beauty treatment called the Schapelle. It's a herbal treatment guaranteed to take 20 years off your life.

And its accompanying image:

Image:Monopoly Indonesian.jpg

A Monopoly game board edited to be labelled "Indonesian Edition" with every square reading 'Go To Jail'.

Joke's are inherently POV and entirely inappropriate within an encyclopædic article. Their inclusion serves only to trivialise an already controversial issue. "Sense of humour" should not need to be a consideration in contibuting this article, and it is my request that they be not re-added. However, I am not opposed to those wishing to document "societal reaction" starting an associated article, so long as it refrains from original research.--Cyberjunkie 10:02, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Most of this article is about societal reaction anyway. If you took away that, there wouldn't be much there.

Anyhow, I was just going to add another picture before I realised this section had been removed. Seems a shame to waste it now that it's loaded up, so I'll just put it here.

Image:Schapadlock.jpg

100px

--Isocyanide 18:12, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Spinoff products

Beside Ron bakir registering her name, I read in the magazine "the bulletin" that someone registered "CorbyCase" as a trademark for secure luggage.--Marc pasquin 01:07, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Retrial

There are currently two sections relating to the retrial, one where it hasn't happened yet, and one where the appeal was already rejected. Perhaps these could be merged somehow?

from intro

Have removed the following from the intro. Don't think it's true (?), or verified. If it is, please quote source. Also not sure that it deserves such a prominent position.

"At age 17 she became a drug addict that nearly cost her life. It was then that she decided to turn her life around and became a beauty therapist." AndrewMcQ 20:17, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Images

The proliferation of not actually fair - fair use images in this article is pretty bad, and really entirely unnesessary.--nixie 00:13, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Corby's 20-year sentence reinstated

An Indonesian court has reinstated the original 20-year sentence given to convicted drug smuggler Schapelle Corby.

Yahoo News Australia: [8] 19 January 2006

Categories: Talk archives