Category talk:School massacres

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This category was nominated for deletion, renaming, or merging with another category on 2006 December 27. The result of the discussion was keep.

Two subcategories of Category:School massacres were nominated for merging on 7 November 2007. The result of the discussion was upmerge to Category:School massacres.

Several subcategories of Category:School massacres were nominated for merging on 22 November 2007. The result of the discussion was upmerge to Category:School massacres.

This category was nominated for deletion, renaming, or merging with another category on 2008 April 28. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

	This article is related to WikiProject Schools, an attempt to write quality articles about schools around the world. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page.
Cat	This page is not an article and has, therefore, not been given a rating on the quality scale.	Schools Portal
NA	This article has been rated as NA-Importance within Schools.

[edit] Need for a "massacres" category?

I'm hoping to start a discussion here on a possible need for a "massacres" category. I have read the deletion debate here and invited comments from those who voted there.

I realise that there is a list of massacres at List of massacres, but what I fail to understand is why the category is deleted because use of the term is controversial, but the list stays - surely inclusion on the list is just as controversial, even if a list does allow explanations. I would find the category far more useful than the list - as an initial criteria, I would say that any article with the word "massacre" in the title (or a redirect to it with the word "massacre" in the title) should qualify for such a category.

And there is precedent for allowing categories with ambiguous wording. Such as this one here (Category:School massacres) and Category:Disasters. The precise definition of a disaster and the criteria can vary, but the category system is still useful as updating a list is untenable for open-ended historical events such as disasters and massacres.

So, provided there is a strict restriction (based on the title and whether an article survives AfD - ie. the normal Wikipedia balances and checks), is there any support for the recreation of Category:Massacres? Carcharoth 11:42, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

In cases like this, there a two key differences between lists and categories:

• Lists can qualify the "massacre-ness" of an event, e.g. given the number of victims and sort which use of the word "massacre" applies. Categories group everything together, from a 7 victim criminal shooting to a 7000 victim war crime.
• Categories are invasive (appearing in the article), lists are not.

I strongly discourage re-creating Category:Massacres, also IMHO the "school masacres" should be re-named and re-classified as "school spree shootings".

Pjacobi 12:01, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

The creation of suitable subcategories would also qualify the massacre-ness of an event. As for the intrusiveness of a category, that is no more intrusiveness than having "massacre" in the title of an article. I am more than happy for controverisial massacres to be omitted (eg. Kent State shootings) and to restrict this to articles with "massacre" in the title. The category blurb should also emphasise very strongly that this is a controversial term and that a fuller list, including genocides and other terms, is found at List of massacres. A good starting point would be categorising the articles (and redirects where helpful) on this automatically generated list here. Carcharoth 12:07, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rename from "massacres" to "spree shootings"

Above is a suggestion to rename this category (and the relevant subcategories) from "School massacres" to "School spree shootings". I agree with this, with the caveat that the Beslan school hostage crisis and the Ma'alot massacre and the Bath School disaster and the Poe Elementary School Attack and the Cologne School Massacre and the Osaka school massacre are not technically spree shootings, as they either did not involve guns (instead using bombs, knives, flamethrowers, or lances), or (Beslan and Ma'alot) are better characterised as hostage/terrorist situations. Also, Santee, California and Bethel, Alaska are temporary placeholders as the relevant school shooting articles haven't been written (see [[1] and [2] for details). If I have time, I'll tidy this up and do suitable renamings if needed. Carcharoth 12:32, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't think this works, because of the counterexamples you mention (killings that aren't shootings). Instead, I propose renaming to Category:Massacres at educational institutions. The purpose of this is to pave the way for putting Category:University shootings (or a similar cat, because currently University shootings is for killings and shootings that don't kill) in a subcategory of the new cat. In the UK, universities aren't considered schools, but they are educational institutions. See Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2008_April_28#Category:School_massacres. Superm401 - Talk 01:23, 28 April 2008 (UTC)