Talk:Scat singing

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I moved the Dick Higgins' material here from the article called Skat, which I just converted into an article on the card game. I took one word out of the Dick Higgins quote when I moved it. The word was metatacized which I do not recognize and neither does Webster's Unabridged or the Oxford Englsih Dictionary. I replaced it with [transformed] which is what the sense suggested to me. Either Higgins meant metastasized in which case the word is very poorly chosen, but I suppose should be put back in the quote, or metatacized is a technical musical term that at least one person with a fairly large vocabulary did not recognize, and should be glossed with [transformed] or some better word if it is put back in. See Talk:Skat for what I did to that article. Ortolan88 04:12 Dec 30, 2002 (UTC)


Contents

[edit] Earliest form of Scat?

Is Konnacol, an Indian vocal perfomance, the earliest form of scat? Media Research 10:02, 11 October 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Terrific source of information on Scat

Many thanks for the expanded information about the history of Scat, the origin and early performers. As a student, I found your site one of the best on the subject.

Frances Spranger

[edit] Title

I am reverting the change of article title from "Scat singing" to "Jazz scat", as the former is a very much more common term for the subject. I'll agree to moving the title if there is concensus to do so; if you think the page should be retitled, please discuss the reasons, thanks. -- Infrogmation 04:45, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The B-52's

The B52 did scat singing in some of their songs, should we mention them in this article? --SuperDude 02:17, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

If they are particularly famous or notable for their scat singing. Certainly hundreds of artists have done scat singing, those mentioned are generally those who were unusual for doing it early, in some influential or extrodinary way, or were famous specifically for scat singing. -- Infrogmation 04:50, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] King of Scat?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't Louis Prima's name be mentioned in here? I've heard him referenced before as the King of Scat.

[edit] Informative?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't an article on scat singing include a cliche example? "Schoobee shoobaba doo baba fluble wop do do ee o?" or the like? The article seems to beat around the bush.

I quite agree with you. Also, there appears to be nothing on scat singing post-Louis Armstrong, despite the significant contributions by Ella Fitzgerald, Mel Torme, Sarah Vaughan, Betty Carter et al. I find it difficult to write about these singers acheivements without falling foul of the old NPOV/not sourced law! Gareth E Kegg 03:52, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ella Fitzgerald

On revising the History section, I found the following in the code:

<!-- It was [[Ella Fitzgerald]] who popularized scat singing as a legitimate vocal jazz art form, her [[1947]] recording of the [[Gershwin]]'s [[Lady be Good!]] is usually credited with this. comment: credited by who? Who concidered it not "legitimate" before, and why the change? -->

I've weakened the claim and reattached the information to the section; also fixing it up some (like correcting the Gershwin and song links).

--Andymussell 02:16, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

I added some stuff on Adelaide Hall, Duke Ellington, Jim Morrison and Sarah Vaughan.SmokeyTheFatCat 21:28, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Women scat singing

I removed the claim in the description of Adelaide Hall in 1927 "This is the first instance of a woman singing scat." Source please? That certainly doesn't sound right to me-- I'd have to review my Lizzy Miles, Bessie Smith, Clara Smith etc records and discographies.... Boop boop a doop, -- Infrogmation 00:23, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

I have the reference from the sleeve notes to a Duke Ellington album by Nat Hentoff. Not available on the web as far as I know. I believe the reference to be true but I won't put it back in if it bothers you SmokeyTheFatCat 15:34, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

It "bothers" me only in that is seems wrong. I certainly believe you that the sleeve notes say that, but unfortunately some dubious assertions have wound up appearing on liner notes. I recall an acoustically recorded version of "When My Sugar Walks Down the Street" from '24 or early '25 with a scat duet chorus (I'd have to refind the 78; the female singer may have been Aileen Stanley). I don't know who the first female to record scat (and of course the first to record doesn't necessarily mean the first to do it). I wouldn't be surprised if earlier examples still could be found. However Hall in '27 is certainly not the first female example, no more than Armstrong in '26 suddenly invented scat while recording "Heebie Jeebies" (to mention another incorrect assertion that has found its way into liner notes). Cheers, -- Infrogmation 16:19, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] what would a person who scats be called?

would they be a scatter, a scatist, or something else? does anyone know?

A scat singer. -- Infrogmation 15:11, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
Scatter has been used frequently by myself and the scattin' cats I've been around. : ) -- Zeebe 04 April 2007

[edit] Classic examples/recordings of scats.

Mmmmm... it seems to me, that we could have a different subheading towards the bottom of this entry that would include examples of substantial and significant examples of scat (this o'course could go a lot longer than bios list ... mmm... Mayhaps it gets a whole new entry.

I'll start - informally - by throwing out:

-Mark Murphy on 'Stolen Moments'

-Al Jarreau on 'Spain'

-Ella Fitzgerald on 'How High the Moon'

-Bobby McFerrin on Chick Corea's DVD 'Rendezvous in New York' [10-DVD set with various Chick combos) (or a title something like that)

just for starters. I'll have to get back to the main entry page later. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Zeebe (talk • contribs) 15:11, 4 April 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Is Bjarne Riis really a scat singer?

I know Bjarne Riis is a cyclist, but this is the first time I heard that he is a scat singer. Is there an article to verify that he actually is one?

Lrguy 12:12, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jazz

I am putting scat singing in the category, Jazz & Jazz genres. Even though it is used in all sorts of musical genres it is usually seen as jazz singing & it was founded by early Ragtime & Jazz players so yeah that's all you need to know.

[edit] Jackie Chan (Artist)?!

Jackie Chan is in the list of "Notable Scat Singers". Not only do I see nothing on Jackie Chan singing, let alone scat, but nothing to suggest him being notable. Either this is linking to the "wrong" Jackie Chan, or it is just completely wrong in general. If it is the wrong Jackie Chan, I suggest removing the interwiki link or linking to Jackie Chan (Artist) to avoid confusion later. --Spodi 05:10, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Yo

Yo

I'm surprised that the Swingle Singers are not mentioned on this page. They have, in my opinion, elevated scat singing to its highest level since ella fitzgerald's work. Of particular interest would be the album Bach's Greatest Hits, released in 1963. The group is still active today, albeit with a completely different membership, but still doing remarkable music.

Karen12398 04:15, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Slim Gaillard and the Gaillard Trio

Quote from Slim Gaillard wikipedia article: "Gaillard first rose to prominence in the late 1930s as part of Slim & Slam, a jazz novelty act he formed with bassist Slam Stewart. Their hits included "Flat Foot Floogie (with a Floy Floy)", "Cement Mixer (Puti Puti)" and the hipster anthem, "The Groove Juice Special (Opera in Vout)". The duo performs in the 1941 movie Hellzapoppin'... he was a master improviser whose stream of consciousness vocals ranged far afield from the original lyrics along with wild interpolations of nonsense syllables like MacVoutie O-reeney. One such performance is celebrated in the 1957 novel On the Road by Jack Kerouac."Cuvtixo (talk) 20:36, 5 April 2008 (UTC) Gaillard claimed his singing was part of his own made up language, which he called "Vout." I think its very clear that he was "scat" singing, but I'm not sure if he disqualified himself from the scat tradition by calling his technique something else entirely (Vout). Or perhaps because of specific signature multisyllable phrases like "o-roony," that he is not really a scat singer? If I had some published sources comparing Gaillard to other scat singers, I would include him in this article, but until then... Cuvtixo (talk) 20:36, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Technical difficulty

I am a scat singer and trombone player and the section about vocalizing being harder than playing an instrument is completely off. I'm not sure how to edit the article properly, but I'm tempted to just remove this whole heading.

As far as I can tell, the biggest reasons that there are more decent jazz sax players than scat singers are: 1) Saxophone is by far the easiest melodic instrument to sound decent on. 2) It takes a long time to get good at jazz improvisation, and it's harder to get away with sounding crappy for a while as a singer. 3) Big bands play charts that have horn solos written into them. So if you play in a big band and you have any talent for improvisation at all, you'll get practice at it. (And if you play an instrument suitable for jazz you'll play in many big bands.)

There's no established niche for scat singing. You have to make one. Which requires expertise that is difficult to come by. But technically it is far and away easier to do than improvisation on most(/all?) instruments.

Datedman (talk) 17:17, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree, the technical difficulty section is completely off. The only reason why there are more instrumental soloists than scat singers isn't because of any supposed "technical difficulty" or the first two reasons listed above. The reason is the mindset. If we stay with the example of comparing a saxophonist to a vocalist, the saxophonist has the mindset that after he plays the melody, that he will solo afterwards and end after all the other solos by restating the melody. Most vocalists don't have this mindset, and often fall trap to the "diva" mindset, where they're only purpose on the bandstand is to sing the melody, look pretty/dance on stage, and thats it. Most of them just don't get around to practicing soloing/scat singing.