User talk:Sbhushan

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We're so glad you're here! - Thanks for your help oin the Talk:Out of India page.Bakaman Bakatalk 23:42, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Very Very Very Good ! I think the way you want to deal the OIT article is proper. WIN 09:02, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] OIT

Welcome to Wikipedia. I like your ideas and would rather that the OIT was not presented as some crackpot religiously motivated theory. I haven't read the entirety of the OIT talk page yet as I am not getting much time on Wikipedia these days (life is getting hectic). Maybe in a week I'll commment. I was just wondering on which particular authors presented on the current OIT page are basing their claims on religious means as opposed to scholarly. Stephen Knapp and David Frawley are obvious (despite having distinctly non-Hindu names). Who else? Nobleeagle [TALK] [C] 03:58, 8 November 2006 (UTC)


Hold it, hold it. I know you are new to Wikipedia so you may not know this. Wikipedia is essentially always a work in progress, with new material coming in to various articles every day. The tagging of every section on the OIT page and the creation of a cleanup section is bad for anyone that may want to read the article before December 2006. You don't know how many people want to read it. But I see the progress and work you are making and appreciate it, so I have an idea. I am going to restore the older version of the article on the actual Out of India theory page, and will create User:Sbhushan/OIT (I hope you don't mind that, and move the current thing you've got going into that). I hope you understand. By the way, I'll now make any changes I might have for the article on User:Sbhushan/OIT, if anyone else makes changes on Out of India theory, one of us should go and transfer them (if they are good edits) onto your OIT workspace. Nobleeagle [TALK] [C] 03:50, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Indigenious Aryan term of Bryant is associated with theory name by Dab to confuse readers about two theories for India. But Indo-Aryan Migration theory is not termed as a theory in it's article's name. Why ? Because then readers will understand IAM as some truth and IAT / OIT as some hypothesis or theory. Note that in IAT / OIT it's termed as hypothesis or theory , where as IAM is not. "Half truth" ! Same way Dab & Crculver are continuously deleting B.B. Lal 's links to his papers , Saraswati river's ref. in other Veda and Puranas etc. in IAM. Check it out. They just don't want to include it as B.B.Lal's papers are very well written with proofs & logic - as it's against IAT / IAM. WIN 05:03, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Then, why OIT page still finds Intro or History section as per Dab's view ? Then, please change it as per OIT view. OIT view was expressed by Sanskrit scholars when AIT was proposed but it was not `heard' in British Raj. For this point you can get good reference ( I remember Gidwani's book review ). Since you are very good in writing, please incorporate it in OIT.

I am not deleting any IAM supporting point and writing OIT point in IAM. I am against `Half Truth' or Negation or some Interpretation sounding like some fact. By incorporating B.B.Lal's papers in external links or adding that Saraswati river is mentioned in Yajurveda & Atharva Veda same as Rig-Veda & Saraswati river's less might or demise leading points are expressed in late Vedic Brahamans or in Mahabhrat is not without any ref. ( it's mentioned in Saraswati river article itself ). But,since it can give Full Truth understanding to readers, it's deleted in the name of `Bad English'. WIN 04:59, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Dear, see latest changes in OIT article. WIN 10:05, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] AIT/AMT

I saw your question at the AMT article. A migration scenario is today much more accepted than the invasion theory. There are still some minority views that believe in an invasion - which is discussed in the AIT article. (You may also find examples of such views at Stormfront).

The distinction between invasion and migration is not always very clear. This has been shortly discussed here (ch.3), here (ch.1.1) and here. --RF 19:53, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Dab is deleting ref. points in IAM article. We can report WP:OWN for Dab's behaviour as asked by Geo on my talk page. WIN 11:18, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] RfC on Indian Mathematics

I thought you might be interested (at your convenience). Talk:Indian_mathematics#Request_for_comment:Indian_Mathematics Feedback is requested for a problem on the Indian mathematics page. The issue is disagreement between two users on whether entire versions should be reverted or better citations pointed out and procured on demand. Freedom skies| talk  11:10, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Indian mathematics

Greetings, I was involved in the RfC in Indian mathematics. My efforts were directed towards creating a version such as this one, as compared to the this, this and this version. My efforts initially began with removing misrepresentation of quotaions and then I tried providing some of the "citations needed" tags with actual citations. The situation resulted into an RfC, timed during my examinations, to which I could admittedly, not work on adequately. Fowler&fowler has asked me to work with him but since I am sitting my examinations and the article has been edited extensively since the RfC by other editors I no longer can keep up the pace. My exams will continue and after that I will be leaving, taking a few days off WP. I have reviewed my future with the Indian mathematics article, and have come to the conclusion that since I am under time constraints and am under such pressure in real life that adequate responses or editing actions on "Indian mathematics" are just not possible for me right now. I can't contribute to it in the manner that I usually would; it would be unethical to the extreme to ask the other editors, who have wished me well during my examination, to wait. The article is under the watch of many good editors and I see and hope that it's quality benefits from the present situation. Many regards, Freedom skies| talk  02:03, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Warning

You are edit-warring on Indigenous Aryans, and are in danger of violating WP:3RR. Further reverts will result in blocks. You keep inserting nonsensical arguments, in spite of painstaking explanations by several editors on talk. This is disruptive in itself, and if you continue in this vein, you may also be banned. Note that you may also be blocked for gaming the 3RR. If you genuinely cannot follow the debate on talk and feel you are bullied, I suggest you open an WP:RfC on the article for wider input: if you want to pursue the subject, this is your course of action, while further edit-warring will not only lead nowhere, but reinforce the appearence that you are consciously trolling the article. dab (𒁳) 17:45, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

you are blocked for 48 hours. Fyi, see WP:AN/I#Sbhushan. dab (𒁳) 18:22, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Request for an Independent Admin

Your request to be unblocked has been granted for the following reason(s):

I am unblocking you upon your promise that you shall not edit Indigenous Aryans for 48 hours. If you should violate this condition, I will reblock you; If you honour this promise, I will accept it as a show of good faith.

Request handled by: dab (𒁳) 19:52, 28 February 2007 (UTC) |}

Also found and disabled an autoblock related to this. But I see the request has been answered, beyond that. – Luna Santin (talk) 19:57, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: request regarding Unblock

If there are other users involved in the dispute, you could start a request for comment regarding the block; if not, you could post to the admin noticeboard to request a review. I would offer, but I'm off the computer in under ten minutes from now. – Luna Santin (talk) 20:07, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

if you're going to wikilawyer about this now, Sbhushan, I will request a sockcheck on you. If you're going to pursue the RfC route, that is, request comments on your "content dispute", and honour your offer to refrain from edit-warring for two days, it will be possible to assume good faith at least, and we'll try to address your concerns however garbled you put them. dab (𒁳) 21:01, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Regarding User:Dbachmann

Perhaps you should address his abuse of privileges on Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/User_conduct#Use_of_administrator_privileges as per Dbachmann's own suggestion [1] in response to the post [2] .I have made some additions to the ANI post made regarding this matter [3] which you can use in building your case. 70.113.122.198 14:51, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

The option that Dab suggested requires at least 2 different editors on same topic who have shown effort to resolve the issue. So I can not use it in this particular case. But he has shown me the way and if he keeps on trying to publish POV original research, we will get to that stage too. Wikipedia policies apply to everyone evenly.Sbhushan 18:45, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
Because of recent edit-warring and WP:3RR and other problems in this article, I have reported the WP:3RR offences at WP:3RR, in the hope that the edit-warring stops and Dab and you discuss the things together.
I'm not sure if I have to report you again, because you were already once blocked for the same offence some hours ago. If you should be blocked again, please provide evidence (diff's) for your WP:3RR, and you will be reported again. And if you think you have not made WP:3RR or were not warned, you should explain it. --RF 13:28, 2 March 2007 (UTC)


Dab is trying to push supposed Aryan Invasion/Migration date to 2600 BC or even older , by Indigenous Aryans article. And, there by finding solace in Anatolian hypothesis for IA notion. Now he is portraying Anatolian hypotheisis as minor support. I understand his motives.By this one can get rid of finding any Vedic or Sanskrit in IVC. But, he is masking one point that archeology or genology don't support such a totally influencial migration in ancient India.Also, note the point that Caucasus mountain area is totally non-IE and this area is just next to Kurgan hypothesis' core PIE area. This point is a big point in proving that Kurgan hypothesis is defaulting on this very basic point. WIN 07:21, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Greetings. Please read WP:Point before posting another disruptive RfC. --Fire Star 火星 14:41, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply. There was a user about a year ago who was starting an RfC on the same editor that was part of a cycle from a long time edit war that was deemed disruptive and summarily removed several times. I remembered it and thought you were a reincarnation of that process. Since you've explained your reasoning, without prejudice on my part I won't oppose if you re-establish the RfC, especially since it was suggested. Good luck! --Fire Star 火星 15:13, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
Hello again. I went to undelete the previous version of the RfC for you just now (which I should have done right away), and saw that you had already restarted it. Sorry about that. --Fire Star 火星 16:32, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Your Mediation Cabal case

Good Morning (GMT time); I have accepted your Mediation Cabal case - requested by Sbhushan - on behalf of the Mediation Cabal. I am prepared to commence mediation as soon as possible. I would like to start by enquiring if you wish for mediation to be conducted at the Mediation Cabal subpage, or on the article talk page.

If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to Contact Me; I will try to answer all your questions as fully as possible in so far as it does not compromise my neutrality.

Kind regards,

Anthonycfc [T β€’ C]
03:58, Tuesday June 10, 2008 (UTC)


[edit] AIT article

There is a discussion at the AIT article which could interest you. [4] --Rayfield 21:58, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] More to life

See [5]. So try and get involved in more articles and at least some less controversial articles. It helps to get a perspective. Haphar 15:35, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

If you see my history, I have been involved in more than one discussion over article/POV. Does not help much , and usually there are enough players in the system to balance things out. So apart from increasing the hostilities by focusing on just one article, or having a single point agenda or a "mission" leads to spiralling debates and no conclusions. It's your choice what you want to focus on.Haphar 16:07, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Interesting Haphar!!!. You want to discourage a person who is fighting for a right cause. I can guess your intentions the way you endorsed Dab's response.

It's spelled response. And this coming from someone who will not even create an id. Haphar 07:12, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Good day to you too. My reply to your message is here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Sisodia#Good_day_to_you

Responded to you message. Thanks. Sisodia 22:13, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] stop it please

stop blanking my references, Sbhushan. I am going out of my way to reference every tidbit in these articles, to the point of debility, for your benefit: you'll not even have to switch on your brain to follow the line of argument. This is hard enough as it is, without you clamoring for references on talk while at the same time blanking references I put in the articles. I suggest that you stop editing these articles until you have sat down and consulted, pondered and understood all of the references given. It's easy to troll talkpages pointing out yet another pronoun or preposition that doesn't yet have a footnote, but this is not good faith editing (not that I think this bothers you of course, but good faith is a requirement on Wikipedia). dab (𒁳) 14:01, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

see my note on Talk:Out of India theory. Again, I invite you to get a mediator to edit for you, or post on talk on your behalf. dab (𒁳) 15:06, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Request for Mediation

A Request for Mediation to which you are a party was not accepted and has been delisted. You can find more information on the mediation subpage, Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Indigenous Aryans.
For the Mediation Committee, ^demon[omg plz]
This message delivered by MediationBot, an automated bot account operated by the Mediation Committee to perform case management. If you have questions about this bot, please contact the Mediation Committee directly.
This message delivered: 20:15, 19 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] RfAr

If that is the case, then why were the others named in MedCab and RFM? I couldn't understand the logic... And also, article RFC might have helped. - Penwhale | Blast him / Follow his steps 21:02, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

I understand what you're saying. Regardless, it's still a content dispute, so it's still about the article. - Penwhale | Blast him / Follow his steps 21:16, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
You're very welcome to leave comments on my talk page. However, I try to stay as neutral as possible. I may point some little things out to arbitrators, but personally I try not to get involved with "picking a side". - Penwhale | Blast him / Follow his steps 19:09, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] RfAr

Namaste. Concerning your RfAr against Dbachmann, I have some information that will be of great use to you.Please configure your email in your "preferences" page so that I may contact you. Email me by clicking here Thanks. Nagsheh 23:06, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sarsvati river article

Due to continuous edit warring between me & Dab - Rudra, Sarasvati river article is now protected from any edit. Dab is trying to push his POV based version by deleting well ref. whole section & other ref. points. You can drop your views on talk pages. WIN 05:37, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Aryan Migration Page

It seems all of us are experiencing problems with these guys. I have opened a discussion on the talk page about the bias, non-neutrality, and ganging up. There is also another one going on in the Aryan Invasion Page, your comments or help is appreciated. Thanks. Cosmos416 22:10, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Out of India

Sorry but I don't know what is OR about that section. The Behnam 22:40, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Let's just keep that sentence out then. I don't see what is so critical about it that calls for an edit war, but yes, Rudra seems to be admitting OR there. Perhaps reasonable (I don't really know), but still OR. Keep me updated. The Behnam 14:22, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] blocked

You have been blocked for meatpuppetry and sockpuppetry - please see this ANI report. Rama's arrow (just a sexy boy) 02:17, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Unblock request

This blocked user (block log | autoblocks | rangeblocks | unblock | contribs | deleted contribs) has asked to be unblocked, but an administrator has reviewed and declined this request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy). Do not remove this unblock request while you are blocked.

Request reason: "Rama's arrow accused me (and banned me) on Apr 22 of being a sockpuppet and meatpuppet for a banned user Hkelkar. His accusation is baseless and he has made this accusation without any elementary validation of facts. Any admin can validate this in about 5 minutes. First accusation is of Sockpuppet – I started editing on wikipedia on Oct 30; I have only used one id sbhushan for all my edits. This can be easily confirmed by check user. Second accusation of being meat puppet - please take a look at my last 500 contributions and compare them to Hkelkar's last 500 contributions. My contribution is on Aryan migration related articles and Hkelkar has no contributions on those articles. I have no contribution on articles related to Hindutva, Islamic Fundamentalism, Indian caste system etc identified in ANI report as Hkelkar related articles. When I initiated a RfC against DBachman, after trying to resolve dispute by discussion over 4 month period, I received an email with lots of information. The user who sent me email, did not identify himself as Hkelkar. I responded back to the user saying I will not be using any of that information. Subsequent to that I also received various request from same user to do some edits on certain articles. Again I have not done any of the edits requested by that user (easily confirmed by quick look at my contribution over last month). Since I have not done any edits as proxy for Hkelkar, Rama’s accusation is baseless and his indefinite block is unjustified. I am requesting unblock so I can defend myself against this kind of vigilante behavior. I left a note for Rama’s using my IP address yesterday, which he has not responded to."

Decline reason: "Consensus at WP:ANI would appear to support your block, which I think is also highly credible just looking at your contribution pattern. β€” Sandstein 20:08, 24 April 2007 (UTC)"

Please make any further unblock requests by using the {{unblock}} template. However, abuse of the template may result in your talk page being protected.

[edit] RfAR

A request for arbitration has been filed involving you. You may be unblocked to enable participation. Rama's arrow (just a sexy boy) 21:23, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Hkelkar 2

Hello,

An Arbitration case involving you has been opened: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Hkelkar 2. Please add any evidence you may wish the arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Hkelkar 2/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Hkelkar 2/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Newyorkbrad 02:43, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Please also note the arbitrators' comments here regarding scheduling matters. Newyorkbrad 02:43, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Is there anything further that you feel should be clarified?

I regret if my comments on the ArbComm matter were incomplete, and if you feel that any act of omission was intended to be a criticism of you I wish to apologize. I have expanded my comments and to cover my view of what happened in the failed mediation attempt. I would also personally like to say that I have no reason to think that you and I would not be able to discuss content issues in a reasonable manner. I declined the suggestion to be an advocate not because of any concern about working with you, but because of concern that the overall combative climate of the article in question made it unlikely that an advocacy effort would have any real impact there. If you feel that any further clarification of these matters is needed please let me know. Buddhipriya 03:28, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Out of India theory

Sbhushan:If you have a question about specific contribution I made, let us discuss.

In this diff, you attribute to Michael Witzel the following quotation

in northern India, rivers in general have early Sanskrit names from the Vedic period, and names derived from the daughter languages of Sanskrit later on. In Europe river-names were found to reflect the languages spoken before the influx of Indo-European speaking populations. They are thus older than c. 4500-2500 BC (depending on the date of the spread of Indo-European languages in various parts of Europe). This is especially surprising in the area once occupied by the Indus civilization, where one would have expected the survival of earlier names, as has been the case in Europe and the Near East.

citing a "Published volume (1995) of the papers presented during a conference on Archaeological and Linguistic Approaches to Ethnicity in Ancient South Asia, held in Toronto on 4th-6th October 1991".

There is insufficient information in this citation to verify your quote.

But thanks to Google, I was able to find the exact words of your citation ("published volume (1995) of the papers presented during a conference on Archaeological and Linguistic Approaches to Ethnicity in Ancient South Asia, held in Toronto on 4th-6th October 1991") at voiceofdharma.com.

Also, by the looks of it your quotation is not a single passage as you present it, but is in fact cobbled together from bits of 3 separate paragraphs at voiceofdharma.com.

Please reply at Wikipedia talk:Requests for arbitration/Hkelkar 2/Evidence#My views on the case or Talk:Out of India theory#Request for verification of quote.

JFD 20:46, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] re: question regarding a deleted page

Hi there. I'm unsure of MedCom's policy regarding who gets to see deleted pages, but am in any case unable to help you, having been accused of being one of Sir Nick's 'meatpuppets' in the arbitration case you're talking about. It would not be proper for me to take any action here. Sorry, but you'll have to ask someone else. Cheers, Riana ⁂ 16:03, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dhun

Hello, could you please add the Hindi/Devanagari spelling at the Dhun article? Many thanks, Badagnani 09:28, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Out of India

How does dab edit the Out of India?--D-Boy 19:32, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] That Out of India issue

I just saw [6] and took a look at the talk page. While I agreed with you last time, my second look leaves me inclined to agree with dab and others on this one. As exceptions are generally made for very simple conclusions, I think it is silly to oppose saying Gandhara when Swat, the named location, lies in Gandhara. It is like if a source says, "John Doe was born in Detroit, Michigan" and the WP article says "John Doe was born in the US," and because it didn't say "the US" you remove it as OR. That is just silly and a waste of time. I have no idea why you would edit war over such a trivial re-wording. Likewise for your opposition to rephrasing "Urheimat" as "homeland."

Instead of warring over nothing why don't you ask them why they can't just say "Swat" instead of "Gandhara" in that particular section? It seems like that would be more specific anyway, not to mention closer to the source's wording. The Behnam 20:04, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion to resolve ongoing conflict

Could you please contribute to the discussion at [7], to resolve the ongoing dispute regarding Aryan migration theory/OIT related issues.Sbhushan 17:51, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Sbhushan. Thank you for your kind message. I feel that my comments shall serve no useful purpose as I have discounted a particular editor from my mind completely with whom you are having "discussion". I regret. Thanks and regards. --Bhadani (talk) 17:56, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
However, please also note that all wikepedians are human beings and deserve respect and consideration as human beings - we may differ here, but if we meet them in real life, we should treat them as we would like to be treated ourselves. --Bhadani (talk) 01:12, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

I am not able to relate to your second note. Can you point me to a specific thing that I did.Sbhushan 17:46, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Oh. Perhaps there was a communication gap - it was a general comment and I have never seen you doing anything improper. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Cheers! --Bhadani (talk) 18:31, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Hkelkar 2

This arbitration case has closed and the final decision is available at the link above. The parties to the case are strongly encouraged to enter into mediation arrangements regarding any disputes over article content that may still be outstanding. All parties are reminded in the strongest possible terms that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and not a forum for conspiracy, personal attacks, nor the continuation of ethnic disputes by other means. "Parties who continue such behaviour, and parties who consider it their moral duty to call out such behaviour, will be hit on the head with sticks until the situation improves."

Rama's Arrow (talk Β· contribs) is desysopped, but is welcome to apply for reinstatement at RfA at any time. As always, administrators should not use their administrative powers in conflicts or disagreements they are involved in. Administrators who are parties to this case are reminded that they should find an uninvolved admin to determine if blocks or other actions against any other parties to the case are appropriate, and should under no circumstances take such actions themselves. Any party that violates the ban on admin actions imposed in this case will be summarily desysopped once the violation is brought to the attention of the Arbitration Committee.

This notice is given by a clerk on behalf of the Arbitration Committee. Newyorkbrad 15:48, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Talk:Rgveda Dating Controversy

DAB who has used more abuses for others than any other editor. See Talk:Utpala where he abused me without any provocation. See Talk:Rgveda (esp. Give a balanced account of Rgvedic dating), where instead of answering any of the points raised by me about his edits, he labelled fictious charges against me. Is Wikipedia his personal property ? Differences must happen in democracies, but DAB does not tolerate dissension and starts abusing even his elders. My students are heads of departments but I can remain in Wiki only if I try to get accustomed to abuses. --Vinay Jha 22:16, 10 August 2007 (UTC)