User talk:SatuSuro

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Eucalyptus oil

Hi SatuSuro. Thanks for contacting me before tweaking. No worries with tweaking. I'd be really interested to see how you tweak it up. Yeh, it's surprising just how much eucalyptus oil is produced outside of Australia. Apparrently Australian production dropped off after WW2. Anyway...cheers. Mossy.....John Moss (talk) 03:58, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

No worries, I'm chase up some more citations. Do you think we should put the euc kinos & exudates on another page, and do a link to them? They are not really oils as such, but definitely worth a heading of their own...? or am I a pedant ..lol. John Moss (talk) 04:14, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

"Exudate art"? ...are you talking jewelery or paint?John Moss (talk) 04:28, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

lol...I was getting really curious. Ok ...a euc exudate art would be fun to research. I'll chase some refs on it.John Moss (talk) 04:36, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi SatuSuro. Thank you for the editing help. I was reflecting on the scale of importance of the euc art, and was wondering if mid level importance may be more appropriate. My logic is that while eucalyptus oil maybe of low importance in the West, it's used heavily in developing countries as a germicide where synthetic germicides are not available. In those situations eucalyptus oil maybe of high importance to perhaps 100s of millions of people. Also, it's multi-usefulness for pharmaceutical uses in most tiger balms and antibacterial lozengers. For comparison citronella oil is a similar usage level essential oil with important health functions as well. Just a thought. What do you think?John Moss (talk) 10:17, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Vickerizing and Golkar

Ya, guilty as charged: here in Jawa with a Vickers. The other stuff I brought is a good deal more esoteric, though I'll add some of it to WP where it works. True that Vickers is a Bali expert, but he's written a decent overview of the last 100 years. I don't see a problem with Vickers. I have my moments with him (I could cite a couple of horrid claims), but overall he's fine, particularly for WP. (And half of the historical pieces are nothing but long paraphrases of Ricklefs. Talk about issues!) Heck, the Indo WP pages are littered with the Lonely Planet guidebook! I may be in the ivory tower, but I gotta go with V. over the LP, unless I'm heading off for some R&R.

Anyway, the larger point is that I helped to revitalize the Golkar piece (which was a mess) and added only a couple of Vickers' comments about premanism. That's essential material: to omit the thuggery, ballot-box stuffing, bribery, and paternalism would be to completely misconstrue Golkar. In addition to the who/what/when/wheres of Golkar, WP must discuss its corruption and violence.

Again, perhaps I reveal my ivory-towered perspective here, but I've never read a work of scholarship which contradicts Vickers' assertions about Golkar's anti-democratic behavior. Hefner, Anderson, Stoler, Pemberton, Barker, Mrazek, Tsing, Rutherford... all the big guns corroborate. Vickers doesn't have a kind word for Golkar in the entire book: I don't think he'd mind one bit to see himself quoted as I've done. (Indeed, it would be easy to add a lot more nasty bits on Golkar from Vickers.)

Again, the bigger picture here is the large improvement of the Golkar page. One can quibble with the outcome, quotes, etc... But it's a marked change for the better. And such edits often spur others to join in the fun, with citations and additions of their own. There's still a lot of work to be done on old Golkar. Smilo Don (talk) 07:17, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Brudda, I'm not sure what you're questioning. OK---fair point: don't lean too hard on a synthetic and quick overview, a la Vickers. Ok, baik, bitul. In principle I agree. But when trying to get a WP art. off of life support, a source like Vickers helps a good deal. But I don't think you really want me to believe that you think critiques of Golkar's anti-democratic behavior are misplaced, do you? We could say that Golkar is a big thingy with a big history, and one shouldn't be careless about that... again, we'd agree there. But are you really doubting that premanism/KKN/etc. has a place in a WP article about Golkar?? Perhaps I'm not fully grokking your position. Smilo Don (talk) 08:36, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

SBY presidency

Maybe you could record your thoughts on the talk page for SBY. I'm not going to roll out a history of SBY's presidency (I've only tracked him carefully when here, which leaves big gaps). I'm just thinking it makes more sense conceptually for WP. I'm really not invested in SBY or SBY on WP one way or the other.Smilo Don (talk) 08:40, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Now offline not responding for a while perhaps have fun SatuSuro 08:47, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Peace and love (and no, I'm not a Deadhead)

Hey mon, no need to spray insults and saliva my way. I'm interested in listening, respectfully, to someone who apparently has spent a lot mroe time in Indon. than I have. Such exchange can bear fruit. But tossing threats and insults my way (repeatedly) is just a bore. It makes you sound old, defensive, and bitter. You could choose to be learned and gracious. You're always free to add other cites or perspectives. But perhaps its easier to just add invectives?

I'd be really glad if, for example, you helped to flesh out Golkar. You could show, I suppose, the democratic leanings/acheivements of Golkar, if you can find any. Maybe with your long memory, you could really enrich Golkar. I'd never heard of Golkar until I first came here in the early 1990s, so I'd be more than happy if people with a much better grasp of Golkar could enrich WP.

You may scoff at my junior grasp of bahasa, Indonesian history, etc., but you have exposed serious intellectual deficits of your own. You seem to ignore (or dismiss) huge areas of Indonesian studies from the last 20 years. Or do names like Pemberton, Hadiz, Stoler, Anderson, and Heryanto mean nothing to you? The field is transforming in rapid and exciting ways: you might even learn a thing or two. In the meantime, let's keep it nice, okay?

(forgot to sign)

what?

Erm, what did I do wrong? I only remember adding reqphoto's to places in Tasmania...Zigzig20s (talk) 12:19, 11 June 2008 (UTC)