Talk:Saturn Astra

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[edit] Ecotec

Does this car use a smaller bored/stroked ecotec?

[edit] Merging with Opel Astra

  • MERGE: This should be merged with the Opel Astra article, as they're the same car.

IRT.BMT.IND 04:40, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

  • Comment: Okay, I now realize that the Holden and Vauxhall are different because they had previous generations that were unrelated to the Opel Astra. However, I still stand on my no merge opinion for the reasons in my 16 Feb comment below, including the different (i.e. much more limited) trim levels. --Vossanova o< 16:32, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
  • NO MERGE: Although very similar, the various astras differ slighty by region. A combined article would have to discuss these differences, and might end up being resplit. I suggest against merging. --Denimmonkey 17:51, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
  • NO MERGE: I am also against merging, the Opel Astra is a European car, the upcoming Staurn Astra is not.PorscheRacer711 21:05, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
Well, it is European in the sense that they're importing it from Belgium. But (to those who support a merge), people looking for Saturn Astra are not going to necessarily be concerned with all the Opel history and specs, they're looking for why Saturn's importing it, what the (North) American specs are, etc. The Opel article would be cluttered if all the similar marques were merged in with it. --Vossanova o< 21:36, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
  • NO MERGE - I am against merger due to the fact that mergin these 2 pages from the same model from 2 seperate Divsion would confuse people reading the article. Anyway Opel is European and Saturn is American. I do know that this is a European Model of this car and it should be noted as such in the article here. Sawblade05 08:55, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
  • MERGE - The reason why there is a Vauxhall Astra article is that there was an old Vauxhall Astra before the Opel Astra. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dahlis (talk • contribs) 20 February 2007
I think there's enough consensus here.. I'm removing the merge suggestion tags. --Vossanova o< 14:16, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
  • NO MERGE: Vossanova and others are correct. I am removing the merge suggestion tag again. --Wizmo (talk) 08:44, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
  • MERGE - I think the MERGE is the best solution. This car is imported from Belgium and is the same Opel Astra, and shares all it's history. Keeping a link to Opel Astra in the see also is too little informative. This is a encyclopedia, if it was an entry in the Encyclopedia Britannica it would probably be only a see also reference to Opel Astra. If you think there's enough non-redundant information to keep this as an article by itself, not a stub-like article as it is now, I would accept it as a good reason NOT to merge it, but I think if you start adding information to it you will invariably end up with a duplicate of what is better explained in the Opel Astra article. Keeping separate articles only add to the confusion since people will start to think the Saturn Astra is something different from the Opel Astra which is misinformation since they are the same car. For example, you won't find a Chevrolet Astra article, and we had the Astra in Brazil since 1995, and it is even different from the current Opel Astra, but not enough to merit it's own page. The information is merged inside Opel Astra so that anyone searching for info on Chevrolet Astra will get to know the reality that it is in fact the Opel Astra rebadged by Chevrolet in Brazil. The removal of the merge tag was, IMHO, a wrong decision, since too few people participated in the discussion. Loudenvier (talk) 19:13, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
Also keep in mind that we have other "Astra" articles that deal with the usage of the nameplate (Astra) in other General Motors subsidiaries only when it is NOT the same car. In this case it IS the same car, that's why I support the merge. Loudenvier (talk) 19:16, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
  • MERGE all these same cars (rebadged) should have only one article, differencies can be explained in the article, and there seems to be aka field in infobox anyway telling they are same car--— Typ932T | C  19:29, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
Regarding the Britannica analogy, Wikipedia is not a paper encyclopedia. One can easily jump from the Saturn Astra article to the Opel and other Astra articles. --Vossanova o< 14:47, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
Although wikipedia is not a paper encyclopedia it strive to reach the quality of those. The hyper-link feature is useful to help organize things better: avoiding redundancy is still a major goal. Why have two separate articles about the same car? Since wikipedia is not a paper encyclopedia, the user won't have to skip from the volume with letter S (of Saturn Astra) to the volume with letter O (Opel Astra) as he would in Britannica, he will simply be redirected to Opel Astra via REDIRECT Opel Astra when searching for Saturn Astra and once there he will know everything he wants and needs about the Astra nameplate. But, again, if there is significant unique information regarding the Astra badged as Saturn Astra in the USA then I think a separate article would be welcome, but right now there isn't such a thing and a centralized place for discussing the Astra in the Opel Astra article is the best way to encourage contribution and organize everything around this amazing car (yes! I own one of them, a Chevrolet Astra - which redirects to Opel Astra, of course - here in Brazil :-)Loudenvier (talk) 15:36, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
  • MERGE - They are the same car, simple as that, also the word made in Belgium just sums it all up as this translates as come from the same assembly line as the Opel model. Anything different about them should be explained on the Opel page, also isn't this the same argument as the Dodge Stealth/Mitsubishi 3000GT/GTO argument. Willirennen (talk) 21:15, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
  • MERGE:From what I've heard, save for a few minor changes to comply with US regulations, this is the exact same Opel Astra that one would find in Europe (save for the UK - I'm getting to that). Now I know that there are also "Astras" elsewhere - the Chevrolet Astra (which is split between the Opel Astra; cf. Mexico and Chile; and a refreshed version of a previous-gen Opel Astra which is locally-produced; cf. Argentina and Brazil), the Holden Astra (which was a Suzuki before it became an Opel), and the Vauxhall Astra (where the Astra was the name given to the RHD Opel Kadett), however let me mention something. There is a model in Russia called the Chevrolet Viva, which is built by GM-AvtoVAZ. What does clicking on the "Chevrolet Viva" link redirect to? The Opel Astra! In addition, there is a sedan sold in the Southern Cone area of South America, based on the current-gen Astra platform, that is sold as the Chevrolet Vectra. Yet is there a separate Chevrolet Vectra page? Not that I know of, because there are areas of Latin America where Chevrolet Vectra = current Opel Vectra. Mexico is a GREAT example of this, as is Chile. In addition, Saturn is going to be "Opel USA" - with a few exceptions, like the Outlook, thus we'll probably see similar issues come up when vehicles named Saturn Corsa, Saturn Vectra, Saturn Zafira, et. al., such as right now. Whilst I can agree with separate Holden and Vauxhall articles (because they were separate models before becoming RHD derivatives of the Opel Astra), in this case I'm approaching this as I would approach the Chevrolet Viva in Russia and the Chevrolet Astra in Latin America. They are derivatives of the Opel Astra, a GM product built in Antwerp, Belgium (where the US-bound Astras are from); Gliwice, Poland; Bochum, Germany; Ellesmere Port, England, UK; Brazil; Tolgiatti, Russia; and in CKD form in some areas, and as such it would be appropriate to put it with the parent article. It's a European car through and through. The design is European, the build is European, the mechanicals are European, - I could go on! The North American specs could fit right in, since it's a derivative of a European car. Thus, merge away! --Daniel Blanchette (talk) 02:57, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
  • MERGE:If you don't, you open the way to over 60 different pages developing for the history of the Mini. There is a similar issue on the go at Holden Gemini/Isuzu Gemini. If the cars are not substantially different then they should be merged. Surely there is not sufficient detail in trim levels to warrant a resplit later. --Falcadore (talk) 09:51, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
  • MERGE:Take the example of the Volkswagen Rabbit and Volkswagen Golf. As you can see, they are merged. Practically speaking, they are the exact same car save for a different engine option, North American specifications, and the nameplate on the back.--Analogue Kid (talk) 15:12, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
  • MERGE: Really, unless there is an interesting story behind the Saturn Astra that is quite different from the Opel Astra, we do not need both articles. The same goes with all other vehicles too. OSX (talk • contributions) 21:49, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge. There's nowhere near enough content here to justify a separate article for what is admitted to being simply a rebadged version of an existing car. Redirect to the appropriate anchor point in Opel Astra, and put "Saturn Astra" in bold text, for the benefit of readers. --DeLarge (talk) 13:40, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge: It's the same car with a different name. Duh, merge! SteveBaker (talk) 17:54, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
Is ten months long enough to form consensus? --Falcadore (talk) 05:41, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
Yes, it is! SteveBaker (talk) 17:54, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Merge: All these Astra cars are too similar to each other (and the current Brazilian Chevrolet Vectra too), so they should be in the same article. -- NaBUru38 (talk) 22:25, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Merge - not enough content to warrant split (could be well covered by a pithy paragraph in the main Astra article) PrinceGloria (talk) 23:07, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

OK - I did the "Be Bold" thing. This page is now redirected to Opel Astra - the original content is stored below just in case there is anything that needs to be moved over later. SteveBaker (talk) 01:10, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

The last version of this article will always be stored in the article's history. Bungle (talk • contribs) 11:44, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Red Line Still Speculative

As far as I know, the idea of a 2.0 engine for an Astra Red Line isn't official; it's the consensus of a large amount of auto publications and blogs, but not official; so I request that either an official source be cited, or the sentence be changed to reflect that it is tentative (or just removed entirely). Boter 05:04, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

There is offically no red line version, at least for the 2008 model [1] --Denimmonkey 12:17, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Turbo-X @ 9-2-2007: what is taking these people so long.. its a few days until fall and no news yet? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.110.202.159 (talk) 15:52, 2 September 2007 (UTC)