Talk:Saosin

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This page was voted on for deletion at Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Saosin. The consensus was to keep it. dbenbenn | talk 17:50, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)


Saosin pronounciation. The band was named by Anthony Green, he Americanized the chinese word Xiao Xin, which is pronounced Shaow Sheen, he pronounced it Say Oh Shin, since he left the band the pronounciation Say Oh Sin has become more popular. I say its perfectly ok to pronounce it either way, or does anyone think otherwise? Should it give both pronounciations? Reiver 03:59, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Why not just put the above information in the article? It's relevent and interesting... Halo 12:03, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Pronunciation of Saosin

The correct pronunciation is say-ocean. See for youself:

What does their name mean, and how is it pronouced?

Thanks to nailed shut, here is a quote from former singer Anthony: "It’s pronounced SAY-OCEAN. And it’s a Chinese proverb from the 15th and 16th centuries. It means “small heart”. Fathers used to marry off their youngest son's for money and used to tell them that they weren’t marrying for love, that their wife doesn’t matter. She could die at anytime so don’t get attached. They had to love with caution and raise their sons to be cold and unfeeling as well. I found it in the 8th grade and loved it, I used to name all my old bands that and write songs about it.

See the rest here[1], on the offical Saosin forums.

It is important to note however, that the Chinese word from which 'saosin' was derived, 'xiao xin' is not pronounced as 'SAY-OCEAN'. Also, the Chinese words 'xiao xin' do not have any particular proverbial connotations in daily conversation where it simply means the need to take be careful. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.241.174.61 (talk) 16:33, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Origin of name

I believe the Chinese characters for the name are "小心" if anyone wants to check it out (the characters mean small and heart).

Also, someone keeps changing the article saying that the name is pronounced shao-shing. This is not true as saosin is pronounced in the cantonese dialect not mandarin.

actually, saosin is nothing like "小心" in cantonese, which is siu sum. also, "saosin" is not a proverb. it just means be careful. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Themoliugecko (talk • contribs) 07:50, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Sound Raptors" and upcoming album

As stated by Beau, "Sound Raptors" isn't the name of the new album and "Shh" isn't the name of the new song off the album. Cerule 19:47, 3 July 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Deletion of article - Cove Reber

Okay I wouldn't normally state straight out opinions on Wikipedia stuff, but whoever deleted Cove's article should go die. To delete it because he isn't "notable" enough is unbelievable... He is the frontman for a signed band that has a huge following. Some fans, such as myself, are quite big fans of Cove and want to know more on him. Where else can we go but Wikipedia to find an encyclopedic article on him?

Deleting wikipedia articles is like burning books in a library. Don't do it unless there is damage being done by keeping it or the article is just a bunch of wrong information, you morons.--Jpagel 16:03, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Citations needed

Anyone have sources for the discography? namely

  1. Acoustic Demo demo (Came with early copies of Translating the Name)
  2. Instrumental Demo (2004) - No Vocals
  3. Capitol Records Demo (2005)--User:Jpagel 20:39, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
I may be mistaken, and, generally, I am, but I believe that a limited number of copies of [i]Translating the Name[/i] included the acoustic accompaniment disc when the band was on its first Warped Tour. I'm not sure about the instrumental demo; it sounds like something the band used for Cove (I have it on my PC). As for the Capitol Records disc, it leaked onto the Internet when the band sent it to Capitol before they were signed. I don't really know how to prove those things, but I know the last one is true for sure, since I downloaded the Capitol demo the day it leaked. Wlmaltby3 04:20, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

There are actually multiple instrumental demos, i have some from 2003, and before anthony green was in the band. There isn't any real way to track those demos, the band just records a lot. Beau Burchell is a quite well known producer (he's done bands like Name Taken, From First to last , the Bled) and has a quite good home studio. If i'm not mistaken Saosin's e.p.s come from his own studio.

I don't know how to cite properly and don't want to mess it up trying but the fifth point in trivia says it needs citation, those quotes can be found in the interview here: http://absolutepunk.net/showthread.php?t=164684 . Those quotes are about halfway down the page.

[edit] Promotional Fans

Is that really an important thing to put on the main article?--Jpagel 15:15, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

No. It has no significance to the page. It should be deleted.

[edit] I Added album info box

[edit] Albums

Album Cover Title Release Date Label
Translating the Name EP 2003 Death Do Us Part
[[Image:NonFreeImageRemoved.svg -->|100px]] Saosin EP 2005 Capitol
[[Image:NonFreeImageRemoved.svg -->|100px]] Saosin September 26, 2006 Capitol
[[Image:NonFreeImageRemoved.svg -->|100px]] Saosin (Limited Editon DVD) September 26, 2006 Capitol

Anybody ever notice the album art has a pattern?

Translating The Name: White

Self Titled EP: Black

Self Titled Full Album: White

S/T Limited Edition: Black Coincedence or not?

Anyways, rock on. Saosin is a great band, with either Anthony or Cove on vocals.

Yeah, It might be that the EPs and promos are black, and the full albums are white. If this goes back to the Chinese culture (where they got the name Saosin from) it's probably a reference to Yin and Yang. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.57.228.34 (talk) 17:56, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Parental Explicit? Confused...

I don't understand how their new 2006 self-titled release has anything with explicit content. Could it be that the label included it to generate higher sales? Anyone see anything in the lyrics that anyone could find inappropriate to allow a toddler to listen to? --NinjaJew 12:49, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

They do that only on the DVD/CD copy (I purchased it) because on the DVD there is some language (Shit, Fuck... the usuals). The regular copy has no such label.

[edit] Genre

For the record, Saocore was an obvious joke to whoever took it seriously as the genre. Ambrosia- 19:28, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Saosin 00 Cover.jpg

Image:Saosin 00 Cover.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 22:21, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

are they a Punk Rock band? cause their music sound rawish to me.

[edit] Merger proposed (band members)

The following discussion is archived. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

The result was merge Beau Burchell and Chris Sorenson into Saosin. --B. Wolterding 17:02, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

I propose to merge the content of Chris Sorenson and Beau Burchell into here, since these people do not meet the notability criteria for musicians.

The band Saosin may pass the criteria in WP:MUSIC; but that does not imply that each band member should be covered in an own article. A separate article for a band member would require that he meets the criteria in WP:MUSIC or WP:BIO individually, independent of Saosin; for example, if he has released several albums as a solo artist, or similar. That does not seem to be the case here.

While this applies in principle to all band members, I would like to sort things out for Chris Sorenson and Beau Burchell first, because these articles have been marked with notability concerns for a long time (since October 06). In order to avoid deletion of these articles, I propose to merge their content here (although much of it is in fact already contained here), and place a redirect.

Please add your comments below; discussion will be open for at least 5 days. Proposed as part of the Notability wikiproject. --B. Wolterding 11:57, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

  • Merge no content in either article that isn't already in this one, the individual members don't meet WP:BAND.Garrie 22:44, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.


[edit] Band logo in infobox

I have recently had many of the band logos I have uploaded removed from pages by IllaZilla, without consensus and with flawed logic, at least from my point of view. On this basis I believe they should not be removed until a consensus is agreed upon. Asenine (talk)(contribs) 17:02, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

IllaZilla definitely should have discussed this first before removing all these images from several bands' articles. The images are, however, non-free and are subject to the fair-use criteria. I'm not one to interpret that though, so the logos should stay until a consensus is reached. Timmeh! 23:02, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
1) Yes the discussion is ongoing, and you are invited to participate in it at Template talk:Infobox Musical artist#Logos, however I think you will find the consensus is pretty clear: Logos don't belong in the name field of the infobox. The name should be in plain text. This is consistent with the purpose of the infobox and with WP:ACCESS, as users with slow connections or images disabled will be unable to read the name. If the logo is notable, then it should be in the body of the article next to a discussion of its significance: Who created it? What does it symbolize? In what context is it used? This is too much discussion to cram into the infobox, and since logos are copyrighted and may only be used once per article, the appropriate place for them is in the article body. Without any discussion then the image is clearly only serving a decorative purpose and thus fails Wikipedia's criteria for non-free images and fair use.
2) I notice you've tried to meet the issue halfway by placing both the name in plain text and the logo underneath. This is less objectionable, but still not acceptable. The infobox does not have a field for logos, and for a reason: it has a field for a free image of the artist. This, combined with the artist's name in plain text, provides identification of the artist, and in the best possible way: Free. A logo does not accomplish this, and since you already have the photo and the name the logo is again serving a strictly decorative purpose, thus failing fair use.
3) To address the specific images you seem to be stuck on, namely Taking Back Sunday, Saosin, +44, and My Chemical Romance: none of these are in fact logos, they are just the stylization of the band's name pulled of their most recent album. You seem to have some confusion as to what a logo actually is: it's an ideogram, symbol, emblem, icon, sign, and/or typeface used consistently over time and across various media to identify something, in this case a band. None of the images you are using have been used consistently enough to be called a proper logo. Take your My Chemical Romance image: It's the stylization of the band's name from the cover of The Black Parade, and thus also appears on the merchandise (shirts, stickers, etc.) associated with that album. But it's not the same as the stylization used on I Brought You My Bullets, You Brought Me Your Love, Three Cheers for Sweet Revenge, or the merchandise associated with those albums. When the band releases a new album, chances are the name will be stylized differently. Thus this particular stylization is not used consistently enough to be called a logo. What makes it more of an "official" logo than this? I'd say nothing except the fact that it's more recent, which doesn't carry much weight. Not every band has a logo. Black Flag, Dead Kennedys, KISS, and Rocket from the Crypt are examples of bands that had logos: symbols and/or lettering that was used consistently across most of their careers and almost all of their albums and merchandise. The bands whose "logos" you are defending don't in fact have logos at all.
To conclude, since we are debating about copyrighted images that fall under fair use criteria, the onus is on you to provide some rationale for including them, not on me to rationalize removing them. And unless you can come up with a valid rationale (ie. something better than "logos look cool") they're going to stay out. --IllaZilla (talk) 03:44, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
And on what basis do you assume that you have the final say? You're not the definitive voice of reason. I now can understand where you are coming from and will stick only to logos that are frequently recurring - but I find it highly insensitive and unprofessional for you to simply assume that by having a long 'conclusion' you have ended the argument, like you suggest in your remark "they're going to stay out". Asenine (talk)(contribs) 17:05, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
I simply meant "to conclude my comments" since it was a very long comment. And by "they're going to stay out" I meant that because consensus on this issue is very heavily weighted towards not having logos in the infobox, concerned editors (other than just myself) are going to continue taking active steps to make sure they are not used in that way. No offense was intended by either remark. --IllaZilla (talk) 20:27, 23 January 2008 (UTC) Asenine (talk)(contribs) 22:03, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] References

There are a couple references in this article that I believe are kind of "iffy". For one, the link to sing365.com is not reliable, since that is a user-editted website. However, I realize that the bio came from a different source, but I can't find it. Does anyone have the original source of the bio? The second source I'm not sure about. It's reliable enough for screamo, but there is no mention of "emocore" anywhere in the actualy review. It just says "Genre: emocore", like a media database. I think emocore should be removed, and the source should be used to cite only screamo. Thoughts? -- FatalError 06:01, 23 May 2008 (UTC)