Talk:Saoshyant

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[edit] Interpretation

In the Zoroastrian religion, saoshyant refers to one who will "make existence brilliant".

"Since He is (the One) to be chosen by the world therefore the judgment emanating from truth itself (to be passed) on the deeds of good thought of the world, as well as the power, is committed to Mazda Ahura whom (people) assign as a shepherd to the poor." --Yasna 27:13, the Ahuna Vairya prayer

Noting this similiarity of this figure to that of the Jewish messiah and the Christian Jesus Christ, along with the fact that it is from the same geographic area and predated both by a century or more, many speculate that the very idea of a "christ-figure" has it's origins in this belief. This is, as of yet, unsubstantiated by concrete evidence. '

I checked out the above quotation from the Zend Avesta. It didn't agree with what you've put forth. What translation did you use? --65.30.154.179 12:46, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Umm, it predated it by quite a bit longer than a century. The Ýathā Ahū Vairyō (or Ahunwar, or Ahunavar...) is translated (as well as transliterated) so many different ways[1], here is just one other translation:
"As the Ahu is excellent, so is the Ratu (one who rules) from (his) sanctity, a creator of mental goodness, and of life's actions done for Mazda; and the Kingdom (is) for Ahura, which to the poor may offer a nurturer."
However; this passage has nothing to do with the Saoshyant directly, though it could apply to the Saoshyant as it applies to every person! Though 'shepherd' is a correct translation, it is not necessarily the Christ-like epithet. For more on the meaning of the Ahunwar see [Zoroaster.com]'s word-for-word translation and explanation by a Zoroastrian priest (An 'Ervad' is a rank of priest, which is also a scholar of the scriptures).
Out of curiousity I googled the word 'Saoshyant' and came up with the same new-age "make existence brilliant" quote in a number of pages. The real meaning is much less spectacular[2]. Indeed the Saoshyant to be born of a Virgin mother with a halo of light around his head to redeem mankind at the day of judgement couldn't have NOT inspired Christian soteriology. It's just the shoddy references I'm criticizing. There is soooo much crap out there on Zoroastrianism, I don't begrudge anyone or think less of them for getting the wrong information and ideas.
I have so many articles on my Zoroastrian to-do list, but I'll get back to this one hopefully sooner than later. Khiradtalk

[edit] Pronunciation

How is one supposed to pronounce the word "Saoshyant"? I have heard it spelt as "Sow-she-ann" before, but I would rather hear it from a specialist in Zoroaster culture than some layman over the Web.

[edit] Ushídar-Máh and Shah Bahram Varjavand

According to the Bahá'í writings the Báb is identified with Ushídar-Máh and Bahá'u'lláh with Shah Bahram Varjavand. Those pages did not exist, and I have created them today, redirecting them to Saoshyant. Is this redirect correct or not? If not, what should it be? If correct, could these names be added on this page as well? Wiki-uk (talk) 13:01, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Neither is the Saoshyant.
  • Varjavand is a Kayanian king briefly mentioned the apocalyptic Zand-i Vahuman Yasn (compare Peshotan). Also, (and besides the fact that one should avoid honorifics in WP article titles, Kayanians are not called 'Shah's, but 'Kavi's or 'Kay's), that form of the name is the Bahá'í form, and is not typical to indigenous Iranian literature, where his name is not 'Bahram Varjavand' but 'Varjavand', whose stock epithet is "the victorious", i.e. Bahram. Also, Varjavand is a hero figure and not a savior figure, and anyway the prophecies of the Zand-i Vahuman Yasn haven't been fulfilled (they would have taken place in 1575-1576). :-)
  • 'Ushidar[-]mah' (or 'Aushedar[-]mah' or 'Hushedarmah' as briefly mentioned in this article) is the second of the three saviour figures that are born "of the seed of Zoroaster" (the first is Ushidar/Aushedar, the third is the Saoshyant). Besides, no one will ever find an article whose title is written with the Bahá'í-typical diacritical marks.
Second, (and assuming the titles were fixed) they would redirect to Zoroastrian eschatology, or better yet, make the reference in the Báb/Bahá'u'lláh more encyclopedic and describe the implication in place (i.e. don't leave the reader to go off to some other article). So, for example, in the Bahá'u'lláh article, one would say [Bahá'u'lláh claimed to be ...] the immortal Varjavand, a hero figure of [[Zoroastrian eschatology]];... Of course, the self-identification as a pre-defined saviour figure is the standard way to start a new religion, and naturally always heretical to an established religion, so if don't want to find such critique being attached to Bahá'u'lláh/Báb I wouldn't recommend transporting such claims into non-Bahá'í articles. -- Fullstop (talk) 17:57, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
OK, I have changed the redirects to Zoroastrian eschatology Wiki-uk (talk) 12:28, 29 April 2008 (UTC)