User talk:Sangak/Archive1

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Please feel free to comment on my edits!

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Contents 1 Welcome to the Wikipedia 2 RDC 3 Thanks 4 Welcome to the MCOTW! 5 Medicine Collaboration of the Week 6 Persian Music 7 This month's winner is RNA interference! 8 Medicine Collaboration of the Month 9 Barnstar and Happy Holidays 10 Informative article 11 Merry Christmas and Happy new year 12 Jalil Mamedguluzadeh 13 Gholizadeh 14 Thanks for the award 15 This month's MCB Collaboration of the Month article is Peripheral membrane protein! 16 Transliteration of Tajik names 17 Re:your note 18 Picture on Persians 19 Re: Salam 20 Anti-Iranianism 21 re: Persia v. Iran 22 Looks good 23 Re: Help 24 RFA 25 Re: RFA 26 About your request 27 WP:Films Welcome 28 Summaries 29 Kiarostami 30 Be strong and not DELSARD 31 Ardeshir Hosseinpour 32 Kiarostami 33 Award 34 Abbas Kiarostami 35 Abbas Kiarostami help 36 Persian Culture Page 37 Abbas help 38 WP:Films Welcome 39 category for Music genres 40 Improving Kiarostami info 41 Persian Wedding 42 Satyajit Ray 43 10 on Ten

[edit] Welcome to the Wikipedia

I noticed you haven't yet been officially welcomed, so... Welcome, Sangak/Archive1!

Here are some useful tips to ease you into the Wikipedia experience:

• First, take a look at the Wikipedia Tutorial, and perhaps dabble a bit in the test area.
• When you have some free time, take a look at the Manual of Style and Policies and Guidelines. They can come in very handy!
• Learn about some of the Wikipedia landmarks by trying our Wikipedia scavenger hunt!
• If you need any help, feel free to post a question at the Help Desk
• Wikipedia has a vibrant community of editors. The village pump is a great place to see the goings on.
• Remember to use a neutral point of view!
• Explore, be bold in editing pages, and, most importantly, have fun!

Also, here are some odds and ends that I find useful from time to time:

• Wikipedia:Five pillars
• Wikipedia:Brilliant prose
• Wikipedia:Be bold in updating pages
• Wikipedia:Bad jokes and other deleted nonsense

Feel free to ask me anything the links and talk pages don't answer. You can most easily reach me by posting on my talk page.

You can sign your name on any page by typing 4 tildes, likes this: ~~~~.

And finally, welcome into the Molecular and Cellular Biology Wikiproject. I'm the current coordinator, so if there's anything the you need, or any questions that you have, please feel free to post them on my talk page.

Best of luck, and have fun! – ClockworkSoul 15:03, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] RDC

Hi Sangak... Nice work on the RDC page... I have looked through it, and made some additions and changes. As the page is right now, it will be very hard to read for a person without a substantial background in physical chemistry. Of course you'll probably never find this page unless you have that... But anyway, I think we should try to make a little more easily accessible, so e.g. a biologist could read it. I'm thinking more illustrations and basic explanations of the terms. And then it is probably a good idea to try to integrate links in other related pages, to attract more editors and readers. Kjaergaard 21:02, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

Thanks for the Barnstar, May Ormuzd bless you ! --Amir85 18:36, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Welcome to the MCOTW!

Hello Sangak,

I noticed you've listed yourself on the participants list for the WP:MCOTW, so I wanted to give you a big welcome. Thanks for your contributions, the thing about apoptosis in MI was very useful. If you need anything or have questions, there are some useful places to start looking in the navigation box to the right. Also, don't hesitate to ask one of the other participants, or ask me on my talk page -although I'm currently not very active. Hope to see you around,

grtz, --Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 20:13, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Hi Sangak,

If you want to learn about citations, look at this change I made to myocardial infarction; it's kinda difficult of different editors use different styles so we try to respect the same referencing style in one article. Thanks for your great work, though, hope you can further improve the article so we can get it featured some day!

--Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 16:26, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I will follow the reference style in my future edits.Sangak 16:36, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Medicine Collaboration of the Week

NCurse _work 13:38, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Persian Music

Thank you for your edits to the Music article. Though the information looks interesting, that article was the wrong article for such detailed information. I encourage you to find other more appropriate articles for it. Hu 15:27, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] This month's winner is RNA interference!

RNA interference

The Molecular and Cellular Biology WikiProject's current Collaboration of the Month article is RNA interference. Please help to improve this article to featured article status.

Last month's collaboration was proteasome.

– ClockworkSoul 14:46, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Medicine Collaboration of the Month

NCurse _work 11:48, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Barnstar and Happy Holidays

Thanks for the barnstar and I was glad to help. Happy holidays! Tombseye 06:44, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Informative article

Thanks for that informative article. Please enable your e-mail from "My preferences", I have some documents that you could use to improve it, I'll e-mail them to you. --Mardavich 17:00, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I just enabled it.Sangak 17:17, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merry Christmas and Happy new year

I hoped you had a good christmas time too, and wish you a happy new year, full of good things. Fabienkhan | talk page 23:28, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

And thanks for the barnstar, I hadn't seen my user page in a while !! Happy editing ! Fabienkhan | talk page 12:05, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jalil Mamedguluzadeh

Hi. First of all, thanks for creating an article about the Jalil Mamedkulizade. He is one of my favorite Azerbaijani writers along with Mirza Alakbar Sabir. The only problem I have with you edits is that according to the naming conventions the name should be written in the native language of the person, in this case it is Azeri. At the same time, you can provide alternative spellings in the brackets, which is what I tried to do. I think Azeri goes first, Persian second. Also, the line about Iranian descent is not clear, Iranian is not an ethnicity, it is nationality. Mamedguluzade was a Russian/Soviet citizen, and ethnic Azerbaijani. The article says that his parents were Azeri immigrants from Iran, if you can put it in better words, please do. Nobody owns articles in Wikipedia, so you are free to edit any article whenever you wish to do so, I just think that we should reach a consensus in this issue. Mamedguluzade was a descendant of the immigrants from Iran, but he was an ethnic Azeri and wrote 99% of his prose in Azerbaijani language. At the same time, his creative activity greatly influenced modern Iranian satirical literature, which is why earned a respect in Iran. I think we can find a compromise that would be acceptable to both sides. Regards, Grandmaster 18:36, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Gholizadeh

Ok, good to hear! Cheers, Khoikhoi 11:16, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for the award

سپاسگزارم. --alidoostzadeh 08:34, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] This month's MCB Collaboration of the Month article is Peripheral membrane protein!

Peripheral membrane protein

The Molecular and Cellular Biology WikiProject's current Collaboration of the Month article is Peripheral membrane protein. Please help to improve this article to featured article status.

Last month's collaboration was RNA interference.

– ClockworkSoul 18:59, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Transliteration of Tajik names

Hi,

I saw that you have added some articles about Tajik poests and scholars. The transliteration methods which are commonly used in Iran and Tajikistan are a little bit different. It's better to use a transliteration method which is more popular in Tajikistan. For example, آ , اِ , and اُ should be transliterated as "i", "o", and "u", respectively (instead of "e", "a" and "o"). Also, های ناملفوظ should be transliterated as "a" (instead of "eh"). Jahangard 23:53, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re:your note

Hi! It seems the discussion is closed. I am a bit late! Sorry. Sangak 14:21, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Dear Sangak. Thanks for reply. You still be able to add your comments to the Talk:Turco-Persian and Talk:Turko-Persian Tradition discussion pages. Regards Surena 15:02, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Picture on Persians

My point is that actually encyclopedias use regular people as examples of a certain group and don't use famous people. It's a negative trend that has been plaguing the articles on wikipedia as it is more of a nationalist platform rather than a view of a people. One doesn't need a national dress so much as a good picture of everyday average Persians from any region so long as they are Persian-speakers and from Iran. Even if they are dressed in "western" clothing, it would not make a difference in this regard. I am thinking of working on this article soon to improve it (I've already worked quite a bit on Iranian peoples, Azeris and Pashtuns) and I think visuals will be important, but not in an immediate sense. Tombseye 18:47, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I see your point. I believe something like the pictures we've used so far with Azeris and Pashtuns though could work though. Of course, if we can't find such pictures at all, then we would have to go with a collage, BUT there are apparently copyright problems when using a collage of pre-existing pictures and if the article is improved to good article OR featured article status then the picture will become an issue. I know this from experience in the past. Tombseye 18:55, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Salam

No problem, - Marmoulak 05:53, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Anti-Iranianism

I understand. My advice is to go over the NPOV and nOR policies carefully, and look at the secondary literature on the topic you think the article should cover. If you can address people's concerns in the next week, you can change minds. If not, and if it takes longer for you (and others) to craft an appropriate article, you can always work on it as a sub-page of your user page and when you think it is ready ask people who voted for deletion to comment and if they like it it can become an article. In the meantime, I assure you that whatever your intentions, many people feel that the current article falls so far below Wikipedia's standards that it cannot be included. Non-Wikipedians who read the article in its current state will lose whatever respect they have for Wikipedia. No one is criticizing the idea of an article on racism against Iranians. People are arguing that the article as it stands falls so far below the minimum threshold for inclusion it should be deleted. Slrubenstein | Talk 15:21, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] re: Persia v. Iran

Hi Sangak,

Thank you for your note on Persia vs. Iran. I read through Iran naming dispute yesterday so I know a little bit about the history, although I wish I fully understood the history. (You may want to check the POV of that article if you have a moment). I am hopeful that we can come to a consensus that will address some of the serious policy concerns about anti-Iranianism while ensuring that the topic is covered on wikipedia. GabrielF 15:36, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Looks good

Keep up the good work!Azerbaijani 21:52, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Help

Well, I noticed that the refs need to be fixed in Abbas Kiarostami. Try using the {{cite web}} template for this, and use Hrant Dink or Ani as an example. The references look nice in the Turkey article as well. As I'm pretty busy right now, I don't have time to read the whole article, but I suppose you could always ask other users for help. At a brief glance, the articles look pretty good, especially the one about Kiarostami. Regards, Khoikhoi 06:50, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Dear friend, Firstly I should thank you about your superb contributions. Unfortunately I'm in Wikibreak and there is no time to check your article. Anyway I'll try to check it, in a glancing look it appears good, but you didn't observe some norms such as "Notes and references" and other little trivia. But average is good and certainly it will be one of a "good articles". --MehranVB ^{talk | cont} 08:13, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] RFA

Hi. I suggest you remove you nomination immediately. I myself have nominated myself too hastily in the past, and it'll force you to wait a while for the next one. Why am I sure yours will fail? Too few edits in user talk and Wikipedia space will cause an avalanche of nay votes. Trust me. Xiner (talk, email) 15:56, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Sure. I just didn't want another Wikipedians discouraged by an avalanche of Oppose votes. Just work on more anti-vandal and XFD's and you'll be there in no time. Cheers. Xiner (talk, email) 18:30, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: RFA

Thanks you for raising those questions with me. In answer to the first, I have actually looked at your contributions under all the account names you list. The only policy discussions you seem to have contributed to in Wikispace are to AfD discussions (see [1]). It is expected that admins will have shown wide understanding of policy through discussions with other editors and you do not appear to have done so. Secondly, my problem with the comment I refered to isn't you POV on about Ahmadinejad, its that you suggest Wikipedia should have a point of view of whether he is racist- it should not. It can give the arguments for and against him being racist but it cannot come to conclusions, one of the reasons why such broad categories of people are (in my opinion) a very bad idea. But I understand now why you made the comment and will modify my reasons for my vote accordingly. I still don't think you have shown enough policy experience to be an admin though, sorry. WJBscribe 17:02, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

A couple of thoughts:

1. Edit summaries. I noted another problem people have found is that you don't use edit summaries. The box just above the save page button allows you to briefly describe your edit. It is Wikipedia policy to use them for all edits, especially articles in the mainspace. If you look in the my preferences link at the top right your screen, under editing that last option is to always warn you if you leave it blank. Having that turned on is a good way to get into the habit of leaving edit summaries.
2. Policy. About getting policy experience. A lot of people who want to show knowledge of policy get into AfD discussions on topics they don't edit, simply providing an impartial view based on policy of what should be deleted. You might find you need to go outside the scope of the articles you are presently editing to gain/show experience of Wikipedia policies.

I hope those comments are helpful. WJBscribe 17:26, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

With regard to the article, sentences like "During the 1980s and the 1990s, his films introduced a humane and artistic face" and phrases like "a charming, neo-realist gem" are among those that worry me. It's not that I'm criticisng you as an editor, but I'm worried that you should present an article with so many outstanding problems at your RfA.

In general, I'm afraid that Xiner was right (above; and after an edit conflict, I see that WJBscribe says what I'd say). If you wait a couple of months, get into the habit of always using edit summaries, and become more involved in Wikipedia matters (not just AfDs), then I'd imagine that you'd be given the mop and bucket. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 17:45, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

You made the right decision, Sangak. Please see my talk page for a longer response, but the short one is if you run again, please let me know. I would be happy to consider you again. Jeffpw 17:52, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

I appreciate that many of the problems weren't of your creation — I'm not blaming you for them; my worry was that you held up the article as one of which you were proud (after a great many edits), but it still contained much that was obscure, NPoV, or badly formatted.

I have quickly looked through the article. The article could be very good if you remove the bias!!!! COmments such as ..... was a "gorgeous film" (in whose eyes?). In many places the content is highly subjective and written informally - remember this is an encylopedia that shouldn't be written in a narrative but from a neutral standing point. When I have time I can give you a hand with writing neutrally if you like. Also in the intro there is a comment which definately shouldn't be there quotations should really go later and should always be sourced if you are to make a claim Ernst Stavro Blofeld 19:44, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

I can see you have put a lot of work into the page but as I sai with neutrality editing it could be reading quite well soon enough. In your intro "I simply advise you to see his films" do you realaise how very biased this is? It is practically an advetisement for the man!! Th is should definately NOT be in the intro. Remember you are setting out a context of the man not to repeatedly praise him. I don't have any objection to sourced quotes further down the page as long as other sources are added to give a neutral view of the man, surely he had criticisms? If so this could go in a paragraph response to his film making or something. Ernst Stavro Blofeld 19:49, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

I'll read it a bit more now and give you some more pointers Ernst Stavro Blofeld 19:55, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] About your request

Hi Sangak, about the Abbas Kiarostami article. First of all, it's a biography, so you should check with Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography on guidelines and help. Also this article seems very developed, and I doubt it should be class Start. My guess is that it's already class B and it should be submitted for a Peer Review. This way a specialist will give his opinion on which points need to be developed or changed, so that the article can become class GA (Good Article). Check the WP Biography infobox for assessment and/or reviewers and ask someone there. I am not very familiar with this project, so I hope this is of some help to you. Cheers! Hoverfish Talk 19:51, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

comments like "master filmmaker Abbas Kiarostami announced after the completion of his gorgeous" very biased indeed! I suggest that after you have written about his career you have a section for acclaim and put those quotes in the intro there further down Ernst Stavro Blofeld 20:12, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

The intro now shows what a major figure he is without going ovrerboard but remember of course he is a film director so some inroductory info on his career I have set it up for you. Began as a film direcotr in 1970 directed over 40 films but what are his most successful or notable films? Ernst Stavro Blofeld 20:26, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

There we are how is the intro now? You see the trick is to convey he is an important figure using professional sources to back it up whilst remaining neutral but try not to only surround his success. From what I have seen from scanning the film carrer section you already have the majority of it there anyway well done just needs a bit more unbiasing and rewording from the subjective point of view in places. I hope I have helped Ernst Stavro Blofeld 20:47, 3 February 2007 (UTC) .

Not a problem you could alos mention how many awards he has won in the intro -its better just to state what he has actually done rather than state he is good - the reader can tell by looking at his achivements his success without glorifying him . I would be immensely grateful though if you could return the favour by helping out with missing film from Wikipedia:WikiProject Films/List of films without article/List of missing Iranian Films. I am compiling a film chronolgy by country currently working on List of Argentine films it would be great if you could help me in starting the missing articles Ernst Stavro Blofeld 20:53, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

well at present it looks like a B-Class article that will become an A-class very soon once referecing and overall writing and bias is reworded a little. The section that needs the most work for me is Cinematic genre and legacy in places it appears unfocused and structurally weak needs to be a bit more concise (rememeber too 45kb is 15kb over the 30kb standard length for an article. Ernst Stavro Blofeld 20:58, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Saying that if his career is covered very well which I think it is but imporved a little and that section mentioned above polished and maybe the critical acclaim section not only focusing on his major praise but also controversy weighiing up both aspects and general response using relaible professional resources with referencing then it would qualify for a GA eventually Ernst Stavro Blofeld 21:01, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Is wikiproject Persian cinema really needed then if it is inactive? You are more than welcome to join WIkiProject Film and work with us in fact you are welcome now and you can be the "spokesman" for Iranian cinema and contribute in this field Ernst Stavro Blofeld 21:03, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

very good I hope eventually as the entire project continues is major growth that more and more people will take an interest in the cinemas of each country and start up Cinema wikiprojects by country. CInema of Argentina I know for one should have. If you contact User:Hoverfish and tell him I have asked you to join in helping out Iranian cinema in particular for WikiProject Film I'm sure he'll welcome you as much as I do. Feel free to add your name on the WIki Film Project list .All the best Ernst Stavro Blofeld 21:12, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Members log is here Wikipedia:WikiProject Films/ParticipantsErnst Stavro Blofeld 21:16, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi there, I think the Abbas Kiarostomi is pretty good for a start-class article and you've definitely put a lot of good work into it. My only advice would be to concentrate on bringing the tone to a more "neutral" language, because Wikipedia has to comment on Kiarostomi in a "general" way. It would be wise to put oneself in someone else's shoes: "How would someone who doesn't know about Kiarostomi benefit from this article?" You might want to take a look at Satyajit Ray, that is a Featured Article and should be a good example of how director-articles should look like. Kind regards, Ekantik ^talk 04:27, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WP:Films Welcome

Here is the basis for documenting all of Iranian cinema List of Iranian films. It's just started!! Every listed by country is intended to be part of the main Cinema of articles from the first film to the very latest.See yaErnst Stavro Blofeld 21:58, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Welcome to WP Films from me too. Glad to have your help in Persian/Iranian cinema. I am only doing auxiliary edits in films and help with organizing some project issues, which means I am not really a specialist on cinema. I see you are much longer than me in Wikipedia, but still I will be glad to offer you any film-project specific assistance you may need. As for my affiliation to Meher Baba's teachings, I have come to enjoy a lot some poetry of Hafiz and Rumi (rendered in English). Hoverfish Talk 22:22, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

I have now written from the beginning to the end of 1974. So far so good but why is his career from 1974 to early 1990s missing? There is a mass of missing info here. I have reworded and improved several phrases . Does it read ok so far? Ernst Stavro Blofeld 11:33, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Summaries

When editing an article on Wikipedia there is a small field labeled "Edit summary" under the main edit-box. It looks like this:

The text written here will appear on the Recent changes page, in the page revision history, on the diff page, and in the watchlists of users who are watching that article. See m:Help:Edit summary for full information on this feature.

Filling in the edit summary field greatly helps your fellow contributors in understanding what you changed, so please always fill in the edit summary field, especially for big edits or when you are making subtle but important changes, like changing dates or numbers. Thank you. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 23:20, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

This shows how the two of you changed the article from the version that I'd reached; you returned incorrectly placed information, incorrect links, etc. You've now done the same again, and replaced material that I'd removed because it was a copyright violation. You're beginning to behave more than disruptively; we do not allow copyrighted material in our articles. Please join in on the article, but make sure that, if you disagree with another editor who has a lot more experience than you, you ask before reverting. I can get things wrong, but I do it a lot less often than you. If you continue to replace copyrighted material in the article, you will be blocked from editing. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 09:28, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

You need to calm down. First, the copyrighted material was mentioned in my edit summary, and the source given. That you didn't look at what I'd done before reverting me is very worrying. Secondly, although the copyrighted materia is the most serious part, you must also not revert editors who are making changes to an article in line with WP:MOS. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 09:36, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Do some research; it's all there in the diffs. You seem to have thought that copying material word for word is OK so long as you add a source; it isn't. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 09:52, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes I do know it. But it has nothing to do with the parts you reverted recently. There are some other parts of the article that have this problem and I am planning to rewrite them. Or I may ask a native speaker to help in rewriting. Sangak 10:02, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

First, you didn't give the diff; it's this. The section and the source are both there. Secondly, a quotation has to be in quotation marks. Thirdly, quotations shouldn't be overlong; this is an article, not a collection of press cuttings. Fourthly, I've just found another section that was a copyvio, which I've removed. Finally, I'm glad to see that Mtevfrog is now editing too; he or she is making small but genuine improvements to the article. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 10:07, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm worried that you don't understand the notion of plagiarism. It's not the quotation from Kiarostami that's the problem, it's the other text, which was cut-and-pasted from the site to which I gave a link in my edit summary. It's not obscure, or a matter of interpretation; it's a word-for-word copy. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 10:33, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

See User talk:Mel Etitis. I'll have to go through and remove all the bias because he does have a point there BUT restore my intro . The intro now looks pathetic. THose quotes need sorting for neutrality though Ernst Stavro Blofeld 10:37, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Kiarostami

Thanks for the thanks. I don't think Mel Etitis is the editor you need to worry about—there is another editor who is presently undermining the entry very rapidly. Mtevfrog 11:34, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I have contacted both editors now and I hope we can improve this in harmony!! It shouldn't be a problem both editors seem respectabl but I will appreciate it if they allow my to correct this properly rathing than reverting my efforts to remove systematic bias. Ernst Stavro Blofeld 11:42, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

the best thing to do is to rid of those red links and stub the articles -Ican give you hand starting the articles if you like Ernst Stavro Blofeld 12:01, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

However please make sure they are categorized see the bread 1970 the persian languiage title next to the title and the link to imdb Ernst Stavro Blofeld 12:11, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

please set out any stubs like The Bread and Alley now. Also please add the film telpate and Perisna cinema template in the talk pages. Thanks Ernst Stavro Blofeld 12:19, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

also please create the persian redirects to the english. Ernst Stavro Blofeld 12:22, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

However it will be very useful if you van add an info box and find some images see The Bread and Alley. THis looks like a decent stub now. I have seen sense of cinema.com and copywirhgt editing really needs sorting on main article Ernst Stavro Blofeld 12:34, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I am as far the early 1990s now. It is coming together with the success in Franc eand the Koker triogy which is the key to this part. I got to go now but I have started intergrating the koker trilogy into 1980s 1990s section -I'll tag it for celanup for now I'll retun laterErnst Stavro Blofeld 13:31, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm back ready for action! I just washed my hair its all slicked back like Steven Seagal!! It'll dry soon enough Ernst Stavro Blofeld 15:14, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I was about to save my mentioning of ABC Africa and the CFCA award or whatver and I see you've done it !! Good. How is it reading so far? Ernst Stavro Blofeld 16:41, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm going to take the feminist section out ok of the career section and edit it in soon with the cinematic genre section. I think those themes have been covered enough already in the career section ok? Ernst Stavro Blofeld 16:56, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Before I continue pleae can you check the dates of the 2000s films for me. The filmo says 2001 but the articles says 2000 then ABC appears as 2001 yet imdb says 2003? Ernst Stavro Blofeld 17:07, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Remember though to add our film template to the talk pages of the new stubbed films and find the movie poster for ten Ernst Stavro Blofeld 17:13, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Thankyou for the message. Unfortunately I consider that the recent string of edits by another editor are poorly expressed and show poor editorial choices, and this undermines the research and the writing that you have yourself undertaken. I think the entry has deteriorated significantly since the point of my last edit, and I don't think current conditions will enable that deterioration to be reversed. But good luck. Mtevfrog 18:37, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I am not involved in your dispute with Mel Etitis, and I tend to think that, although he disagreed with you about certain things, he still wanted to contribute to improving the article. My feeling is that the person you have "helping" you is in fact doing the opposite. As I said, I think he is undermining your own effort. Mtevfrog 18:50, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I understand. My advice: get some sleep. Also: take note that even after your disagreement with Mel Etitis, he continued to contribute to the article. It was only after another editor began contributing that neither he nor I would contribute. There is a reason for this, even if it might (understandably) not be that clear to a non-native English speaker. Mtevfrog 19:07, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Be strong and not DELSARD

Salam dooste aziz, in harf ra nazan, baraye che bayad roohie at ra az dast bedahi? in moshkelat ke dar wiki aadi ast. shoma zahamate khodetan ra mikeshid, na baraye Mel. albate man ham ghablan ba oo bahsi dashtam ke ziad dargiri pish niamad. ama dar har hal nabayad ba in chiza delsard shod chon aadi ast va pish miad. nemidanam ke shoma dar wiki farsi boodid ya na ama agar anja biaid gahi oghat ozaa' anghadr birikht mishavad ke hata bazi az karabarane fa'al (hata modir) az edameh hamkari dast mikeshand. agar fekr mikoni vaghean revert hayash dorost nist be yeki az modiran e fa'al (agar che khodash modir ast) begoo nezarat konad ta moshkel hal shavad. in setareh ham az man dashte bash ta kami roohie begiri!--♥MehranVB♥ ^{☻talk | ☺cont.} 16:07, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ardeshir Hosseinpour

Hey, thanks for catching the Ardeshir Hosseinpour story so quickly. I've added some info and created some redirects (his name is spelled a million different ways). I'm assuming you speak Persian since you added some Persian external links, so I was hoping that you could flesh out some of Hosseinpour's past, in terms of where he worked chronologically, etc. Thanks again, Joshdboz 17:37, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Kiarostami

Gradually improving the part I'm not looking forward to is Cinematic genre and legacy. I am afraid a lot of it may have to be removed because of bias or lack of focus but I'll decide that later. I'm taking a break now. Well done for removing the red links. I have moved the note about the new wave direcotrs to the intro Ernst Stavro Blofeld 17:51, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm glad your pleased with the progress I hope you can convince the person who contacted you earlier who said I was "undermining" the article. Small world isn't it. Laura Mulvey mentioned in the article, in her article mentions Greta Garbo who starred in The Temptress I wrote two days ago. I haven't got around to refencing yet though. See ya till later Ernst Stavro Blofeld 17:58, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I have checked out that INidan feature!! and the bias is way more than Abbas now! It doesn't look any better than ours . We are talking aboout two major film directors here you can't not say what they have done and what they professional criticsm has been. By the way I thought the article was gradually improving but your friend is in the belief that I have made it worse and my English is poor -funny that I can come from a family of professional writers and have won awards for my creative writing!! I feel dubious about putting in work on this if I think they are going to delete it Ernst Stavro Blofeld 18:44, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

What is the problem? Ernst Stavro Blofeld 20:19, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

You can trust me that my english is 100% fine. If you see my user page you will see my awards for work on wikipedia -beleive me you do not achieve these without being able to write well in English!

Yes it amazes me on wikipedia. You either speak to very nice helpful people who are highly impressed by your work i.e 95% of people vs a handful of users who will do everything in their nature to make you feel poor to feel good about themselves. The people who always criticise are always the ones that never do the work the sort a problem out. It has surprised yes the response from that person- if me efforts are deleted I feel I have wasted a day in helping something I thought was done well Ernst Stavro Blofeld 20:36, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Ah, the victim culture; it must be very comforting. And the reverting of my edits at the beginning of all this was, of course, fully justified... (Incidentally, while the "english", "wikipedia", "beleive", et al., were presumably all typos, the "is 100% fine" is very unidiomatic.) --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 23:53, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Award

		The Barnstar of Iran's Merit of Excellence
		I hearby award you the The Barnstar of Iran's Merit of Excellence for taking lots and lots of shit in trying to improve and enhance articles pertaining to Iran's culture and heritage.Zereshk 23:26, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Maybe its best to remove the cinematic style section and most of it is opinion pov which is frowned upon and copywrighted anyway. Would you have any objection to removing the paragraph and providing to external links for discussion on the director - mel has agreed that providing the external links would be the best thing to start with. Then gradually a section on it can be built without copywright and from a neutral view point Ernst Stavro Blofeld 12:44, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Abbas Kiarostami

Hey. I looked at the article as you've requested, but I’m not familiar with the work of Abbas Kiarostami so it wouldn’t be wise of me to make comments on this section. Sorry I couldn’t help more. Ron g 14:21, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Hey I was just about to sent you a long message that I have decided to leave it in but have cut it down and tried to give a balanced view - and I lost a whole message I was abbout to send to you because of an edit conflict!!

Anyway I feel I have done my best in removing the bias and orgnaizing the article- if you read all the way through from the beginning the article flows more now. I have prganized an external site link for the style discussions at the bottom anyway Ernst Stavro Blofeld 14:29, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

I think you have underestimated what have done here. See the style and reception sections now I feel this info is important this is why I left it in - but I have tried to give a balanced view by addressing criticism. I researched that part on why he has been criticised. The article is actually a lot better than has been credit for but far from perfect yet. It'll be interesting to see what is done in the coming week on it. The article is no more pov than those directors you have mentioned Ernst Stavro Blofeld 14:33, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

I have devoted enough time to him already! In some ways your Iranian director article is being targetted in that there are far worse written articles on wikipedia that should be really be good articles but are plagued with copywright and bias but are not even tagged. Ernst Stavro Blofeld 14:36, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

I've given the page more structure anyway but if you and Mel (and the other user who appears to completely disregard anything I do but who seems friendly with you) decide to delete that section that is up to you. All I can say is keep up the good work mate!! Ernst Stavro Blofeld 14:39, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Of course I didn't mean you read above more carefully. I'll be continuing those lists now -if I was you I would take a break from the page for a while until the dispute is resolved -if you could I would be grateful if you could list some more of the films in Category:Iranian films in the List of Iranian films in the right year with the director by the side. Cheers Ernst Stavro Blofeld 14:52, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Hey I wish I could internet while I was at work!! You are a scientist aren't you. Where in Tehran? From my knowledge middle-eastern countries such as Iran and Syria have an abundance of expertise in technology and science even in agro-forestry and conservation issues. Aleppo is the headqaurters of an agricultural conservation group I think-I know that many Iranians have emigrated to the US in the brain drain. My cousin Jonathan Cornelius [2] is a forestry geneticist-I am hpoing to change career soon enough and follow a career in helping global warming. Ernst Stavro Blofeld 15:29, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

I remember that I did a bit of work on Iran on Persian rugs. See the page there is like 100 articles missing on the different types I remember stubbing Abadeh rug!! i felt like finding one of the most obscure topics I could think of and ended up creating Category:Uzbekistani rugs as I was browsing Ernst Stavro Blofeld 16:11, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Oh amazingly warm in the UK this winter unbeleivable. - very worrying. Today was very warm indeed in fact this is the only winter I've never worn a thick polo neck jumper only on one occasion around christmas. I mean I live in the warmer south on the south-east coast of Wales where it is warmer anyway but it has never been like this! Its only a matter of time before biggest problem facing the world today in the long run begins have really serious consequences. I see you've asked for some other editors to see the page. It will be interesting to see what they think but if you ask abyone else can you ask them to focus on the english which I think reads fine. Where are you anyway? Ernst Stavro Blofeld 18:27, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Looking at the results of Blofeld's work, I was too harsh on him earlier. He introduced errors due to his working method, but most of these have now been eliminated. Mtevfrog 22:48, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Abbas Kiarostami help

Sangak, thanks for the heads up. I'll be taking a look at the article in total Thursday night, with specific attention paid to the two sections you mentioned. Unfortunately, I'm not very familiar with Kiarostami's work, so I can't be abritrator over whether a comment is an accurate or inaccurate description of his artistic style, but I can offer scrutiny over english grammar, POV, and clipping down on redundancies. I'll get back to you with more specifics later in the week. The edit you showed me looks pretty good. Cybertooth85 18:00, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

My feeling is it would be best to accept the changes made, and work on that version, slowly improving it. Mtevfrog 11:17, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

An administrator has read the article and said it has actually made progress now (being a stub not long ago and two of the tags have been removed from the top. It still has the incorrect tone in places and a few spelling errors here and there which are minimal. OK? A number of others say it has improved a lot also, but can you dislpay the references at the bottom rather than having the numbers thanks Ernst Stavro Blofeld 18:38, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

I have just reworded several phrases in the cinematic section - making the phrasing less awkward. Ernst Stavro Blofeld 19:25, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Hey, Sangak. I've swept through the latest Abbas article, and have an edit up at the bottom of my user page. I've cut sentences down where possible, but the greatest edit you can make to the article is cutting out the year-by-year filmography with plot synopsis. I've also corrected grammar and spelling where necessary. Use what you like, leave out the rest. Thanks for the opportunity to learn more about international film and be introduced to such a unique artist. Hope I could help. Cybertooth85 05:27, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Persian Culture Page

Dear Sangak, Khoikhoi refered me to you as you seem to be active on Iranian articles. I put a little extra section in Persian culture about religion as religion indeed is a part of culture. I know Iranian diaspora hates to be identified as Arabs and try to avoid subject of Iranian contemporary religion as it links us too much to Arabs. However, from an academic point of view, religion is an importan element and it should be mentioned.

We know it is impossible to go to live in Iran and not note the unique features of Iranian version of Islam and the days they celeberate in their unique way, such as Ashura and carrying Alam and Kotal. I thought that is very Iranian but shame the article has no mention of those.

Anyhow, pleasae do contribute and feel free to add/delete/modify the section. Regards, Persian Magi 10:56, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Abbas help

Hey, when I get a chance I'll help out. I'm swamped with work at the moment so sorry for the late reply. I'll get back to you on your request soon. Cheers. Tombseye 18:42, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WP:Films Welcome

[edit] category for Music genres

Relax! And go ahead and do whatever you like. Tuf-Kat 02:57, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Improving Kiarostami info

When I have time I'll had a filmography table for Kiarostami it will look much better. Please can you add some films to the List of Iranian films please Ernst Stavro Blofeld 09:18, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Right I have added a filmogrpahy table for Kiarostami now. Look I want you ti fill the notes section of the table as much as you can -find some details about the short films including the length too. Looks more professional now. Ernst Stavro Blofeld 10:09, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I have added severla new sections for expansion mentioned his family and stubbed an article on his son also a director you didn't tell me this!! I have added the persian language titles next to the english and have added some images to support the filmography. Looking good now but I really wan't this article bulked up and crammed with more info. I also found dome info on Roads of Kiarostami What do you think? Ernst Stavro Blofeld 13:02, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I have added a signifcant amount of new info to the article but I have found alot on one site to add and pasted in the talk page for the time being. Part of it will flow on at the bottom of the style paragraph which is dicussing the same topic of distance vs close-up in another of his films. I want to at least double the length of that cinematic style section and structure it by mode of style in sub paragrpahs rather than one great big paragrpah. The reception section needs expanding by a third too . I have found some more info on criticism but I also need to find some more praise as this is actually undermined at present. With the new sections on Film jury work at festivals and personal life hoping to be expanded and your help this could become a very good article soon enoughErnst Stavro Blofeld 14:59, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

There is still a wealth of info to add but do you agree its looking much better? Ernst Stavro Blofeld 18:09, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Well why didn't you add this in the first place? If you know something add it!!!! You didn't even say his films were banned in Iran! That is major and that he was refused a visa to the US. Ernst Stavro Blofeld 18:16, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

the two images were to compare the close shot with the distant. The writing in the top picture explains the bottom. Ernst Stavro Blofeld 18:54, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

that would be best. The problem is I couldn't get the fuller size image of the distanced shot from google as it wouldn;t let me enter the site to it had to be smaller. The images are very important though th discuss the technique. I am planning anothe rparagraph underneath now on themes of life and death of suicide etc . THe feminist comment should be moved to the section Ernst Stavro Blofeld 19:01, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

what I suggest is that we access as many websites as possible discussing his work further than we already have and paste it in the talk page if this isn't a copywright problem for the time being. This way once we have all the information we can find around the planet we can can start planning out how it can be fitted structurally into the article. Ernst Stavro Blofeld 19:07, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

once the remaining info is gathered it can be organized in section see the talk page now discussing the same themes. then when we have some idea of all aspects of everything!!!! we can begin planning the growth Ernst Stavro Blofeld 19:11, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Naturally my friend. many disuccsions on different web sites overlap in the themes but often provide a bit extra not mentioned. THis kind of reminds me of planning for essays for my University Degree.!! Ernst Stavro Blofeld 19:14, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I have just mentioned 10 on Ten . The red link needs removing Ernst Stavro Blofeld 19:22, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

One possibility may be to write a bit more about the storylines and subject matter of his films as well as analysing his techniques. Ernst Stavro Blofeld 19:24, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

It would be good to have several section like the distanciation paragraph, with the large cinematic style section sub ordered by theme -more coherent structure -see the Abbas talk page this is my idea for structuring that part.Ernst Stavro Blofeld 19:31, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

ALthough it temporaily looks worse this is the layout and strucutre I think it needed here in the style - but I would like full detailed paragraphs like The Distanciation. First we need info on more expamples of his individualistic style. Ernst Stavro Blofeld 19:49, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Exactly as I said the page currently looks worse with those intial brief paragrpahs but once we can find a detailed arguemnt for each section backed up by some images each section will be substantial covering all aspects of his cinema. like the distanciation. I an personally not familiar with his films I have getting a picture using the sources -are there any othe rissues which need attention? Ernst Stavro Blofeld 19:57, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I don;t know if you have notice but if you read the career section the parts analysing his work from theorists look a little out of place. I feel that section should concnetrate more on the subject of his chaarcters rather than analysing the zig-zagging techniques which should go further down in the life/death change continuity section agreed?Ernst Stavro Blofeld 20:06, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes that is the problem often the themes overlap. Life and death I am talking mostly about the Koker trilogy with the earthquake and themes of survival in the suffering change - how the reconstructions begin after the earth quake and continuity of the life force of the characters. And covers themes of suicide in many opf his film this is a very important paragraph Undersand now? There is now enough info for starters in the talk page to begin to think about intergration Ernst Stavro Blofeld 20:17, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

You see the idea now. This Critics such as Adrian Martin have identified the style of film-making pursued in the Koker trilogy as "diagrammatical", linking the zig-zagging patterns in the landscape, and the geometry of forces of life and of the world.^[1][2] A flashback of the zigzag path in Life and Nothing More... (1992) in turn triggers the spectator’s memory of the previous film, Where Is the Friend’s Home? back in 1987, shot before the earthquake had ever occurred in Koker. This in turn symbolically links to the post-earthquake reconstructions in Through the Olive Trees in 1994. would be discussd in thie life section. If you understand I'll return the section back to its clear structure until the sections are written in the talk pages. I suggest any work done now is done in the talk page first. Ernst Stavro Blofeld 20:22, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I just added this snetence to the fact-fiction section:

In Close-Up in 1990 for example whilst the film is based on a real life trial of a man convicted for attmepting to impersonate a film director, Kiarostami incorporates an element of narrative in the film which prevents it from becoming a strict documentary, focusing in on the emotions and sentiments of the characters portrayed in the film, mixing fact with fiction.

there is much evidence of fact vs fiction from his ear;iest films too. Ernst Stavro Blofeld 20:33, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

yes I am adding an image of or close-up guy now. I don;t know about the film in detail to please fill in details about the impersonator Ernst Stavro Blofeld 20:39, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I have taken out life section for the time being, THis will perhaps be the longest paragraph and needs to be written and developed in the talk page firrst. As it involves a number of citations it can be built gradually in the talk page. See the main page now that sections starting to take shape. I have also found a theme about relgion and sprituality, another paragraph to go after poetic imagery. Are you happy with these devleopments? Ernst Stavro Blofeld 20:47, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

[3] is a site for info in relation to fact and fiction discussing Close-up -imoortant in discussing this Ernst Stavro Blofeld 20:55, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I have tidied the talk page now and moved ealrier comments to archive. The page now is a draft version of writing the style section see Talk:Abbas Kiarostami now. This is where it should be written Ernst Stavro Blofeld 21:06, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Persian Wedding

I saw the page you made. Good luck with it. I have Iranian roots. Tenacious D Fans (talk) 13:18, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Satyajit Ray

The article doesn't mention this award; could you add something (with source)? --Mel Etitis (Talk) 12:38, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Have you added it to the article? --Mel Etitis (Talk) 16:05, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

No problem; I'll do it (don't be afraid to edit featured articles, though — they're just the same as other articles). --Mel Etitis (Talk) 16:29, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 10 on Ten

I have stubbed 10 on TenErnst Stavro Blofeld 14:25, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes well those dates will need confirming. I would prefer we stick to the dates when the film was actually released. E.g Life and more was actually filmed in 1991 but released in 1992 so it should be regarded as 1992. I am started the Life and death section but its very basic at present. Ernst Stavro Blofeld 15:42, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

It is mentioned that Abbas uses traditional persian poetry in his films. It would be great if you could find a persian poem that he used and include it in the poetry section Ernst Stavro Blofeld 15:53, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

wwhy not include both -see how to quote poetry as I have done now. I am about to upload a shot of the ducks by the sea. Ernst Stavro Blofeld 16:16, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

great -this also illustrates the relationship between past and present which seems to re occur in his films. The contrast. What do you think of the duck picture? In his career section I think it best to cover more of the subject content of the films see I have added some detail to 1987 Ernst Stavro Blofeld 16:22, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

It is an image from the film!! With copy editing now this is pretty nearing an A-class articleErnst Stavro Blofeld 16:35, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Could you include the second poem but state the contras that one is traditional and one is

modern as what films they appear in Ernst Stavro Blofeld 16:38, 11

February 2007 (UTC)

good work i out it in the life and death section fits very well thereErnst Stavro Blofeld 16:55, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

I you look at the Sanjavit Ray page you'll see that much of the article covers the subject and storylines of his films. I really feel the need to bulk out his career from the 1970s covering the storys of his films more if this is to become a GA- like I have done to 1987. Any idea where there will be a plot details of his 1970s films and all the others? Ernst Stavro Blofeld 17:02, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Ok but they seem inexticably linked i'll add the title back to it then Ernst Stavro Blofeld 17:30, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

when what we have here is copy edited and some copywright reworded it'll be an A-class article. In my view there are some GA's on wikipedia more basic than this. I'll continue to find more info which will qualify it for a Good Article soon enough. Ernst Stavro Blofeld 19:27, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

yes but I'm sorry that section on comments on kiarostami will have to go -we don't want he pov tag again!!Ernst Stavro Blofeld 19:34, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

The one think admin picked up on was the references. He told me the references section should be worded not numbered. That will have to filled out completelyErnst Stavro Blofeld 19:37, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

reference loking much better already! I have added an excellent and imortant image of him receiving an award I don't know what award it is though and even a book cover!! I have switched the 12th century poet image with a more classical looking one Ernst Stavro Blofeld 20:12, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

hey i just looked at the intro that Indian Ray featured article has and have given a similar styile to Abbas's intro Ernst Stavro Blofeld 20:46, 11 February 2007 (UTC)