Talk:Santo DiMera

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[edit] Dates

I think that the story must have taken place in the 1930's, because Shawn and Stefano were both born in the 1920's/1930's which would make them the right age for the story. Roman was also born in 1950 and Shawn and Caroline were married in 1948. Therefore it is impossible for Shawn to be a 7-10 year old boy in the 1950's. The show has also not been specific. They have only stated that the Colleen and Santo relationship happend over 50 years ago. This therefore refers to any time that happened more then 50's years ago.

In the world of Soaps the SORAS is a true factor. You cannot put Santo's birth in the 1800s when he is seen as 30 in the 50s. Due to negligent rewrites of Days' history, Stefano is an only child born in the 1940s. He is seen as approximately 10 in the mid 50s. Please do not add "date of birth" to this page as there is no specific date availableCelticGreen 02:13, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
I understand what you are saying, but Roman was born in 1950 and he was not SORASed. How could Shawn Brady be a 7-10 year old boy in the 1950's and be married with a son. Let us not forget that Shawn and Caroline got married in 1948 and before that He and Vicotr faught over Caroline. Also how is Stefano supposed to have been born in the 1940s, but yet his son, Tony is in his 50s. I realise what you are saying, but the timeline is wrong and all the characters clothes are from the 1930s. As for date of birth, I think it should be assumed that Santo was born in the 1890s. And Stefano may still be the sevent son. His brothers are just not shown.
I find it interesting that you know the definitive date Roman was born since the show was not on at that time and Roman didn't appear until 1981. As such you have no way of knowing or justifying Santo's age using another character that didn't appear until he was an adult. Soaps are not on a timeline with the rest of the world. You don't go from 19 to 21 in a day anywhere but on a soap. You can therefor not assume dates of birth.IrishLass0128 12:57, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
Regardless of your attempted rationale, the show has said the Colleen Santo story is set 50 years ago from 2007. Please refrain from putting assumptions into a factual article. As the show was not on and Roman was not a character in the 1950s it is an assumption that Roman was born in the 50s and not SORASd. The clothing worn, the characters statements, the interviews with the actors, and the statements from the network all indicate that the story of Santo and Colleen is set in the 50s. It is best not to assume and to refrain from adding a date of birth. http://www.daysofourlives.com/specials/interviews_detail_2820.html Please see the first reply from Alison Sweeney indicating the story is set in the 50s.IrishLass0128 19:07, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
The show has SAID and publicises the story is taking place in the 1950s. Santo couldn't have been born in the 1800s and be 30 in mid-1950. The show has further stated Stefano is an only child. It is impossible for Santo to be born 60 years before the 1950s. An article has been provided and the clothes prove the point. Please leave the dates alone. As to "over" 50 years, that is incorrect. It has been stated many times "50 years is a long time...." and "50 years ago" so you cannot assume anything other than what the show tells us. CelticGreen 21:01, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Children

The show has never stated that Stefano is an only child and he is not because he has a nephew, Andre DiMera, who is currently on the show.

Unfortunately it has. Episode two weeks ago from August 14 Santo said his son, indicating there is only one. It's sad, but the new writer has disregarded all of Days history.CelticGreen 02:11, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
I don't know if that neccesaraly means that Stefano is his only son though. If Stefano is an only child then who is Andre's father?
Andre's father could have been on Santo's wife side of the family or on Daphne's. Regardless, they've rewritten history AGAIN on Days and unless Ed Scott fixes it and gives the children names, the "unnamed" and "unverified" cannot be added to the article.IrishLass0128 12:52, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
But then how does that make Andre a DiMera? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 41.241.20.101 (talk) 13:24, August 22, 2007 (UTC)
What were Stefano's exact words when refering to himself as an "only child"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.241.36.233 (talk) 05:15, August 24, 2007 (UTC)
Santo has stated to Colleen "Stefano is my only son" while none of us like the rewritten history Wikipedia articles are based on verifiable fact and while we may not like it, that is the storyline Days is providing. IrishLass0128 17:10, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
Yes, but this is one small time that the writers have made a blooper. All the facts of the past have indicated that Stefano has six older brothers. On todays episode Stefano again mentioned that he was the phoenix, meaning that he is th seventh son of the seventh son. And don't forget Andre who is the son of Stefano's brother. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.241.47.93 (talk) 18:01, August 24, 2007 (UTC)
You cannot assume when editing Wikipedia pages. It is a soap opera and writers can write what they want. Wikipedia is based on FACT. The fact is Santo has said "Stefano, he is my only son" so you have to go by that. You can assume whatever you want but you cannot add it into Wikipedia. Facts on soaps change. For 20 years Tony was Tony now he is Andre. Just because Stefano calls himself the Phoenix doesn't mean that Santo had 7 children. For all you know his brothers were through his mother and not Santo. You are entering facts that aren't proven. You cannot do that.CelticGreen 22:23, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
It is possible that Santo is being less than truthful about having only one son. Stefano has repeatedly mentioned being the Phoenix, even in the current storyline, which means seventh son of the seventh son. The FACT is that this Wiki article is based on what Santo has said, and should explictly state that "this is what Santo has claimed", not "this is fact". Andre is NOT Tony by the way. Andre and Tony may be portrayed by the same actor, but they are two entirely different characters. Sweetalker79 23:41, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi, is it possible that Santo is the father of Stefano and his younger sister and therefore Stefano is his "only" son, but not his only child. I assume that it is possible that Stefano's brothers were from another father, but maybe Santo raised them and therefore Stefano refers to himself as the seventh son of the seventh son. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.241.68.206 (talk) 07:06, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
There is no historical/mythlogical basis for a Phoenix being the 7th son of the 7th son. Rewrites of soap history happen. As it is on screen now, Stefano is an only child. There is no evidence of a sister or 6 other brothers. Wikipedia is about fact, not supposition and assumption.IrishLass0128 02:07, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
What about adding a section on the retconning of the character? The problem with soap characters is that there is constant retconning. At one point, Stefano had a sister. At one point, Stefano was stated as 'the seventh son of the seventh son'. Heck, at one point, André shot himself in the head and died. A retconning section could address the various storyline changes, as well as reference how the new storyline is working out. D'Amico 09:06, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
There is no evidence that Santo did not have a daughter, only evidence that he did. Since she was born after Stefano and since Santo and Colleen were both faithful to each other, she must be Santo's daughter, not some other man. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.241.45.118 (talk) 15:51, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
You have to understand that Wikipedia is for verifiable information and there has been NO mention of a daughter. You cannot add your assumptions to a Wikipedia article. Unless it is seen on screen that Santo has a daughter, you cannot add it to the article. There is most certainly no evidence that Santo had a daughter.IrishLass0128 16:54, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
Accusations of vandalism. It is not vandalism to remove unverified information and assumptions. Just because something was said by someone, does not make it fact. Just because someone said they had a brother or sister does not make it fact. Santo has said and we have seen that Stefano is his only child. Whether a daughter is in the future is assumption. Just because Stefano said he had a sister does not mean she was a blood relative. Stefano calls Peter and Kristen his children, yet he never adopted them. You cannot put your assumptions and then call the removal of assumptions vandalism. You have constantly added and changed whether Santo had 7 sons and a daughter or just Stefano and a daughter. The facts are, Santo has Stefano as the show has presented the CHARACTER OF SANTO. This article is about Santo, not Stefano and the facts must pertain to Santo, not Stefano.IrishLass0128 15:40, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
The suggested retcon passage has been added. There is no need to add the additional children at this point.IrishLass0128 15:59, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
This is no need to add this passage as it has nothing to do with Santo. It is also known the Stefano did have at least one brother, because Andre DIMERA is his nephew. Even if he is not Santo son, but his wife's, then he would still be Santo's step-son, which is why I have added them under step0children. What more do you want??
Assumptions. You cannot add assumptions. It has been said that Andre may or may not be Stefano's blood nephew. He could be the nephew of his wife or former lovers. The retcon section was added at the suggestion of D'Amico and agreed to be added. Two editors feel this is a good idea, therefore it has been implimented.IrishLass0128 16:20, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
Per comment tags be D'Amico and Flyer22's comments, the retcon section stays. In regards to the "children" of Santo DiMera section made to replace the retcon section this is not valid information and is not to be included. The determination by four editors is that the retcon section stays, as the tag indicates. Do not remove the retcon section.IrishLass0128 13:05, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
The possibility still exists that Santo is lying about his "only son". He has lied before, about his wife etc. He could have more children in Italy that have not been mentioned... this would certainly clear up the significant "rewrites".Sweetalker79 23:41, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
While I agree it is possible, Wikipedia is not a crystal ball and therefore must show what we have seen on screen and have heard from the characters. Unless it is a widely disputed issue (rape/not rape/consentual/not consentual), we have to go with what is said. Unfortunately, the new head writer has NO REGARD for history and we have to address that. As it stands, the retcon section is appropriate. CelticGreen 23:58, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:SantoDiMeraPic.jpg

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BetacommandBot 05:08, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Note to everyone: The fair-use rationale issue concerning this image has been taken care of, as in a fair-use rationale for this image is now provided. Flyer22 20:43, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tony DiMera

Tony DiMera is Stefano's step son as he was married to Tony's mother but he is not a biological DiMera. This was reaffirmed on August 22, 2007 when Tony stated he wouldn't be a match to donate a liver to Stefano since he is not biologically related to Stefano.CelticGreen 23:35, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Step Children

Unless an additional wife is mentioned, or proof can be given that Santo's wife had children by another man, there is no way for Santo to have Step Children in the current storyline. Please see retcon to understand the Retcon section and why "step" children cannot be added. IrishLass0128 17:18, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Irishlass you have always stated that Stefano could have had older brothers and a sister from his mother's side only and I finally realised your point and I changed the six older brothers and unnamed daughter to his stepchildren, but yet now once I write "your" advice you again find a way to disagree with me. We know that Santo has at least one step child, since Stefano has refered to Andre as his nephew and his own FLESH AND BLOOD. The show has stated that Stefano had six older brothers and a younger daughter. They have also stated that Stefano is Santo's obly son. What more proof do you want that Santo's wife had other children and therefore Santo had step-children. Please try and see my point. I also hate it when articles are edited without verifiable proof, but I think I have more then given it.

Grant Chuggle

You have a misunderstanding of what a retcon section is. Do not edit the page again until Flyer22 explains to you the meaning of a retcon section. A retcon section is not for your assumptions. The article is for verified information. Your personal opinions are not part of verifiable content. The retcon section is to address past storylines that are no longer fact. That's why it is there and why Andre and "six other brothers" is no longer considered verifiable proof. The retcon section only addresses why a story was changed and the changes, it is not for assumptions. Many times in Italian families "blood" includes wives and other relatives. Just because someone is related to Stefano does not make them related to in any way Santo. I've watched Days for 40 years, I am not editing the Santo DiMera story without verifiable proof. I can upload all the episodes with his story if necessary. We know what we see being played out. What we see is that Santo has one son. Period. That is what is on screen and why the retcon section has been added.IrishLass0128 18:22, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
I know what a retcon is but no retcon has taken place. I agree with you that Stefano is Santo's only son, but that does not mean that Stefano does not have brothers from his mother's side. This article must contain facts, not your assumptions. The show has stated that Stefano is Santo's only child and that Stefano had siblings. We therefore know that these were only Stefano's half siblings. Please try and see my point and did not edit this page unless the show states that Santo's wife had no other children besides Stefano. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.241.25.119 (talk) 18:33, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
A retcon has indeed taken place. There are no additional children. For Stefano to be the 7th of the 7th, Santo would have to be their biological father. Either that or Stefano is not Santo's at all, which is not true. The additional change is that he has no daughter. What we see on screen is that Santo has one son, no step children, no daughter. That is a retcon from the original story told by Stefano. The story currently varies from "Andre's" version that he told in the mid-90s that Stefano's father died young but when Stefano first arrived in 1982 it was because his father had just died. If you want to add half siblings, do it on the Stefano DiMera page. Santo has no step children and no additional children as the story is currently written. You've asked for user:Flyer22's help. Do not add in the assumed children or change the retcon section to reflect your personal opinion. Allow her to settle the disputes.IrishLass0128 18:40, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Andre DiMera

Andre "DiMera" is an inigma of the DiMera family. His parentage unknown. All that is knows is André DiMera was brought to Salem in 1983 by Stefano DiMera. André was given plastic surgery to look exactly like Tony DiMera, and with Stefano the two planned to frame Roman for murders. There is no indication of who his parents are and how he is actually related to Stefano. He could be a nephew on Stefano's wife side. As Stefano clearly treats Daphne's side of the family as his own blood, example Tony DiMera the bastard son of Daphne and the Gardner. As his parentage in unknown, he cannot be listed as Santo's grandson or any relation to Santo. The retcon section is not for unknowns and "however" beliefs. As IP user 41.241.xxx has requested an independent review, adding personal beliefs and assumptions violates wikipedia's verifiable information additions to articles and must stop. IrishLass0128 12:17, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Then why is Andre's surname DiMera and why does Lexie and EJ refer to him as their cousin.
Andre's entire identity was given to him by Stefano. There has never been any proof that Andre is a blood DiMera on Stefano's side. If he was related to Daphne, Stefano would consider him his blood and Lexie and EJ would consider him their cousin. If Andre was blood related, why was he unable to be tested to be a donor for a liver section for Stefano?IrishLass0128 12:53, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
The reason Andre was not tested was because the police were after him. Stefano has refered to Andre as HIS flesh and blood, not Daphne's. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.241.125.136 (talk) 12:55, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
Your personal opinion is not relative to the information added to an article. The retcon has been addressed and should not contain your personal views of whether Andre is related to Santo or not. The STORY AS TOLD about SANTO is that he has one son, no step children, and no adopted children. This article is about the facts of SANTO, not Stefano, not Andre, not Tony, not Lexie, not EJ. The FACTS are Santo is shown, has said, has indicated, he has ONE son and only one son. You cannot add your assumptions to an article about Santo. If you have assumptions about Andre and his relationship to Stefano, add them to the Stefano article. Again, you have asked for outside help, you need to allow that to happen and decist in adding your personal speculation to an article. You can also not take away facts that have been seen and proven. Regardless of what Stefano calls Andre, there is no indication AT THIS TIME WHICH IS WHAT THE ARTICLE IS BASED ON, FACTS SEEN, NOT ASSUMPTIONS, that Andre is related to SANTO. IrishLass0128 13:02, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
IrishLass is correct. Andre's paternity and his actual relationship to Stefano have never been clearly defined. Andre could be the son of Santo's brother. As it has not been established on the show how Andre is related to Santo, if he's related at all, he cannot be included. Additionally, do not make personal attacks to other editors in the edit summary.CelticGreen 13:32, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
Thank you. With the notation that Andre's relationship to Santo is unknown, seems like that should settle the debate.IrishLass0128 13:44, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
Oh, I am sorry, but if Andre was the son of Santo's brother, then wouldn't Stefano refer to him as his cousin, not his nephew. I don't know about you in America, but in the country that I live in we refer to our parents sibling children as cousins and our siblings children as our nephew/ neice. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.241.125.136 (talk) 13:51, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
Do not add Andre as a relative of Santo. The show has in know way stated that he is related to Santo. The only thing we do know is that Andre is the NEPHEW of Stefano. Therefore he is the child of Stefano half brother/sister —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.241.125.136 (talk) 14:00, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm confused, do you want him added or don't you? Wikipedia is for fact, it is opinion that has been added as to Andre even being related to Santo. The article is going to be put up for deletion based on your behaviour and constant reverts and opinions.IrishLass0128 14:22, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
[[1]] Here is proof that Andre is Stefano nephew. Here is more proof. [[2]] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.241.125.136 (talk) 14:08, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
This article is for an AMERICAN television show. Therefor it is based on information in the Americas. What you do in "your country" should be addressed on your countries pages. Wikipedia in an internation encyclopedia and many countries are represented. As stated, Andre's paternity is UNestablished. The comment was hypothetical to make a point that Andre's parentage is completely unknown. If you would like to address his relationship to Stefano, you are free to do that on the Stefano article page. This page is about Santo DiMera and there is no clear evidence that Andre is related to Santo. He's been added as unknown relation, that will have to be enough until the show says "Santo IS X to Andre." Please refrain from putting your opinion that something is stupid in an article. The retcon section clearly addresses your concern. Please do not continue to place an opinion in the article. CelticGreen 14:10, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
Beth's page is a fan page it cannot be used for verifiable proof. Regardless of his relationship to Stefano, no relationship to Santo has been established. In America, you can take any last name you want and change your last name at anytime. As this is an American show, the writers could have taken liberty with that fact. Regardless, this article is about SANTO DIMERA, not Andre DiMera or Stefano DiMera. Please keep this article on subject.IrishLass0128 14:16, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
While both the information on Beth's page and the information at soapcentral.com were correct at one point (and, as a side issue, Beth did not actually do the bios -- she simply hosts them), when the show changes, so does the information. There have been references in the past to Stefano being the seventh son of the seventh son, and also references to a sister, but that information seems to be falling by the wayside (same way the show 'forgot' that Alex told Marlena they had a child, or that a DNA test once proved John and Lawrence were brothers ... although if DNA proved John was related to Tony, that actually means he was related to André). I'm assuming that Santo later remarried and had André's father. Either that, or Stefano IS his father and has never admitted it. D'Amico 06:58, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, D'Amico (sorry for the previous misspelling). So, since assumptions are not verifiable content, the decision, based on your tag and Flyer22's comment, is that the retcon section stays and additional information about Andre is not relevant to the article, along with the "children" section IP User 41.241.xxx.xx (it changed again and is constantly changing) seems to want to put in, is unnecessary and contains assummtions. Thank you for your help with the article.IrishLass0128 13:00, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Please explain what are these assumptions. The other day Andre even refered to Santo as HIS grandfather. The section I added was simply the same as the retcon section, but more to the point and explain both situations without biased. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.241.96.0 (talk) 16:17, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
  • A Consensus was reached. Flyer22 asked why you think a retcon section should not be added. Have you answered her? Your "section" does not meet the Manual of Style guidelines for a Wikipedia article. As to "Andre" referring to Santo as his grandfather, he has not. Tony has but Tony is included. As to your alligations of bias, please discuss them here and provide proof that anything included in the article is false or bias, in your opinion. Others will decide. As it stands, multiple editors have agreed that the retcon section is appropriate and fits within the article. Your assumptions are not verifiable fact. The section, as it stands, is not biased and is based on fact seen on the current show. Again, a consensus is an agreement on style by more than one editor. You are the only one who has a problem with the retcon section and as such, you are violating the spirit of editing Wikipedia. Please refrain from further placing your opinion in the article and changing what multiple editors agree to be fact and style.IrishLass0128 16:24, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
  • See the NBC page for the DiMeras. Andre is NOT included as being related to Santo. [[3]] Andre is not included in the House of DiMera section on NBC. CelticGreen 18:03, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Are Renee, Megan, Lexie and Benjy also not DiMera, because they are not included. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.241.84.104 (talk) 19:45, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
  • I'm sorry, WHAT? Please ask complete questions. Renee and Megan are dead and not part of the storyline. Benjy is a minor character. Lexie has distanced herself frm the House of DiMera. Andre is at the forefront of the vendetta but is not included as a DiMera on the NBC page. The rest are irrelevant.CelticGreen 20:34, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Benjy may have been a "minor character" at his death (he has been part of major storylines in the past) and Lexi may have "distanced herself" but they are still DiMera children. They should be included as Santo's grandchildren. So should Renee and Megan. Deceased characters should have the word "deceased" in parentheses, but should still be included. You cannot argue that they are not DiMeras. Sweetalker79 (talk) 04:51, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Not sure what the problem is but they are all listed, in the infobox. No one denied that any of the children of Stefano, other than Tony, are Santo's grandchildren. We've even included Belle and Brady. KellyAna (talk) 14:47, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Three-revert rule

Please be aware that our Three-revert rule states that you can only revert information on a page three times in a 24-hour period. Instead, discuss your edits on the article's Talk page to build consensus. 41.241.125.136 You are removing grammar errors when you revert to your personal opinions. The next revert will be beyond three in 24 hours IrishLass0128 13:08, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Retcon and Santo's Wife

Using the term "possibility that his wife had children" is a non-specific phrase. Such phrases are not allowed by Wikipedia. Wikipedia is for fact. The retcon section the ever changing IP User 41.241.XXX also known as GrantChuckle insists on changing to include Santo's wife is in violation of Wikipedia policy. verifiable content does not lend to "possibilities." It is for fact. The facts presented in the retcon section as written without "possiblities" is correct. This article is about Santo. Any information about Stefano or Santo's dead wife belong in their own articles if they do not pertain to Santo.IrishLass0128 17:25, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

The retcon section is fine as is. It does not need information about what is not available or who Andre is or isn't related to noted as "confirmed." Wikipedia is for verifiable content and facts, as has been repeatedly stated. Please refrain from removing verifiable content. CelticGreen 17:45, 5 September 2007 (UTC)