Talk:Sankebetsu brown bear incident

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Articles for deletion This article was nominated for deletion on 8 February 2008. The result of the discussion was keep.

Contents

[edit] my edits for today

Tokyo Watcher provided a lot of information in this interesting article, but it needs to polished by people with fluent English ability (among other things).

Today I rewrote sentences from the beginning up to (and including) "a search party". As you can see, I also changed the title. I hope someone can follow op on this. Thanks. Astarica 15:39, 5 September 2007 (UTC)


Ramiel 16:34, 28 August 2007 (UTC) Not sure what the sentence "Then they thought the bear should have recognized the fear of the human being." means; that the bear ought now to be afraid of the humans, or that the bear realized that the humans were afraid?

Ramiel 17:08, 28 August 2007 (UTC) Proposed changes; I feel a bit pretentious correcting this page, but there are some passages which are not very understandable. Just posting this here before I make and major changes to the main article...

I'd be more inclined to use the passive tense when referring to past events, and to describe the bear as "it, the bear" rather than "he, etc.".

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Tokyo Watcher (talk • contribs) 15:10, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The article doesn't make sense

Apart of poor English writing there are too much contradictions and unclear events in the current version of the article. Just to name a few:

- Who named the bear "Kesagake"?
Village people.
When?
In Meiji era.

Unknown. It is from Yamamoto's memory about the incident "killed and eaten three women".

Why I can't found anything related to it if I search Kesagake on Google?
You must Search it in Japanese. Kesagake was written as ｢袈裟懸け」 in Japanese.
Searching that does turn up this article in Japanese.

[1]

- How many sons had the Miyoke family?
Miyoke couple loved each other, then many child was born.　Probability, two or three....
By thew way, is it Miyoke or Miyake? What were the names of the sons? Who was carried by the mother when she was attacked by the bear?

Miyoke family had at least 5 children. 長男(1st elder boy)・力蔵(Rikizo)、次男(2nd boy)・勇次郎(Yujiro)、長女(1st elder girl)・ヒサノ(Hisno)、三男(3rd boy)・金蔵(Kinzo)、四男(4th boy)・梅吉(Umekichi). There are no records whether family had younger children or not.
明景=Miyoke.
ヤヨは勇次郎と梅吉を連れて脱出し[2]=Yayo carried 勇次郎(Yujiro) and 梅吉(Umekichi)

- How many people was at the Miyoke familiar house when it was attacked by the bear?

オド(Odo),ヤヨ(Yayo Miyoke)and 5 children, タケ(Take Saito) and 2 children三男(3rd boy)・巌(Iwao) 四男(4th boy)・春義(Haruyoshi). 10 people was there.
Saito family had other 3 children(2 boy and 1 girl) who was apart from village to go to school. They were in Onishika (鬼鹿) at that time.

- What age had Mayu when the bear killed her? Why is she described as "ilegimate daughter"? Did the author mean "adoptive" or something like that?

age=Unknown. "ilegimate"→内縁の妻"The unregistered marriage"

- All that "Odo"-s mentioned again and again are the same person?
As like as not.

Yes.

- Were Saito and Miyoke leading the 30 men party or were them just normal members of it?

Saito and Miyoke joined as nomal members. The party was led by 谷喜八(Kihachi Tani?-Leader of Matagi) and 松田定一(Sadakazu Matsuda?-The reserve duty who was in Sankebetsu).

- Where is exactly Sankebetsu? Is it still inhabited?
Yes, bears are living in amity now. They symbiose with the human being at present.

[3]. At least when I visited there in 2001 Sankebetsu was inhabited but there was no resident in Rokusensawa.

- The animal is often described as big... was it bigger than the average brown bear? If so, how many?
Yes, he was one of the biggest bears in bear's history.
- Why is the bear deicted of black color if the attacks were carried out by a brown bear? Are Hokkaido's brown bears of black color?
Oh, please ask it for painter.
--Menah the Great 00:58, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Because the photo was taken by poor camera and poor cameraman.
from 北海道苫前郡羆害事件 菜根道場.Sorry I am poor English Speaker.--Babi Hijau 16:51, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Not fit for an encyclopedia

This reads more like fiction than an article in an encyclopedia. Here we get to hear about not only what many different individuals were thinking, we're even told what the bear is thinking. I'm not sure that this article is even notable. If it is to remain here, the language should be corrected and it should be written like a proper article and not a fictional story. JdeJ 13:07, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

It's important to take the bear's perspective into account. 130.64.137.22 13:55, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree 130.64.137.22' claim .--Tokyo Watcher 23:55, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair enough, but how do you presume to know what a bear is, or can be, thinking of? This article is linked to other [[4]], similar, but devoid of fiction, like good encyclopedia articles should be. 76.239.46.229 19:00, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Engrish

This may be the most inadvertently amusing article in all of Wikipedia. (I do not mean to suggest that this is a good thing). It will take someone far more ambitious than I to try and begin to wikify and translate from the Engrish.Orphic (talk) 08:12, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

I can handle that. This sort of thing is something of an obsession of mine. Bearerofthecup (talk) 02:49, 7 January 2008 (UTC)