Talk:Sandra E. Roelofs

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[edit] Fluency in Georgian?

Can someone supply reliable sources for the assertion that Ms. Roelofs speaks "fluent" Georgian? Given the complexity of the language and the fact that she is not a native speaker, this seems to me to be an unusual claim requiring significant evidence. Richwales (talk) 19:16, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Sandra is indeed fluent in Georgian. She's been living in Georgia since 1995, and has learnt it. Her official biography reads: "Besides her native tongue Ms. Roelofs is proficient in French, English, German, Russian and Georgian, learning a regional language in Georgia: Mingrelian." --Kober^Talk 19:21, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

An "official biography" could be POV. Can we find any additional, independent sources confirming this claim?

Not that this would be citable as a source, but: You, Kober, appear to be from Georgia, so I'm assuming you're a native speaker of Georgian and have heard Ms. Roelofs speaking Georgian. How would you, personally, rate her command of the various aspects of the language (vocabulary, grammar, and pronunciation) — say, on a scale of 0 to 10, where 0 is "not at all" and 10 is "native or would easily pass for a native"? And have you heard her in spontaneous conversation (interviews, press conferences, etc.), where she would need to speak without notes or other advance preparation? Richwales (talk) 21:58, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I have heard her, and I would rate her command of the language at 8 or 9 on a 0-10 scale. How about rewording it to say "she is proficient in..." as stated in her biography? I think it is more NPOV because the word "proficient" does not necessarily imply that Sandra is fluent in all these languages, imo.--Kober^Talk 06:56, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Sorry I didn't get back to this article for a long time. Yes, I think I agree that "proficient" (per her official biography) would be better than "fluent". Or, given the possible POV nature of an official biography, perhaps it would be even better to say that she "is said to be proficient" in Georgian and the other listed languages. The official biography could then be moved next to this statement, as a source for it.

I'd still feel more comfortable if another, more clearly NPOV source for her proficiency in Georgian could be found. A claim that a foreigner has achieved fluency or near-fluency in Georgian — despite having started studying it as an adult — still seems to me like an unusual claim calling for high-quality evidence. I vaguely recall that the other source already in the article (from Caspian Business News) said something about her fluency in Georgian, but that article appears to have become a dead link. Richwales (talk) 18:43, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Welcome back, Richwales. I just did a quick search and found a couple of sources that characterize her Georgian as “fluent”: U.S. embassy, Center for Strategic and International Studies (Washington , DC) (page 2), and finally this article by Prof. Donald Rayfield, himself a specialist of Georgian language and literature. I think that “proficient”/”said to be proficient”/”reported to be proficient” is a good alternative, though.--Kober^Talk 19:28, 21 May 2008 (UTC)