User talk:Samesizedfeet

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Hello, Samesizedfeet, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions so far. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

If you need help, post a question at the Help Desk or ask me on my talk page.

It is always wise to read the talk page of an existing article before making major changes on it, to see if your idea has already been discussed. Even then, it is often helpful to suggest a major change before making it, to see if anyone objects or wants to discuss it. Please do not delete materials on other people's talk pages or on the talk pages of articles.

When you contribute to a talk page, please sign your name using four tildes: ~ ~ ~ ~ but without the spaces.

For help with adding citations, see WP:CITE.

Again, welcome! -- Ssilvers 20:25, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Henrietta Hodson

Kate Gordon is give as the stage name in this book as well as in the entry at the Dictionary of National Biography.

Please add citations to verifiable, reliable sources for new information added to wikipedia. See WP:V and WP:RS.

If you need help adding the citations, just add the urls, just as I did it for the two links above here, and someone will come by to help you with the citation form. If the work is not on the internet, add bibliographical information, such as the name of the author, title, date, publisher and city.

Best regards, -- Ssilvers (talk) 03:27, 30 March 2008 (UTC)


BTW, what makes you think that Musgrove fathered Nellie Stewart's child? I look around quite a bit and could not find any reference to that. -- Ssilvers (talk) 03:34, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Thank you

for links to sources

I've spent about an hour this evening reading and attempting to understand how to add in a source citation and I'm completely bamboozled by it all.

For example - this is the article from The Times where I sourced information regarding the 3rd marriage of Dora Labouchere. It's a reliable source but 'I' don't know how to go about adding this into your article

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Dora-obit.jpg




[edit] Nancye Stewart

I've read it in quite a few places - most reliable being Australian Dictionary of Biography.

http://www.adb.online.anu.edu.au/biogs/A150729b.htm

I've not so far been able to locate a copy of the birth certificate in England.

it's also referenced here - http://www.twf.org.au/research/culturec.html

[edit] Daft question

Do I reply to you on here or on your page?

I see you've deleted my original query on your user page so I;m not sure where I should be contacting you??

[edit] Incomplete information

Thanks for your prompt response. I will watch your page, so you can respond here. What is the date, page number and column number of The Times obit for Princess Eugene Ruspoli? -- Ssilvers (talk) 03:57, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Princess Eugene Ruspoli, Obituaries, The Times, Monday, Dec 04, 1944; pg. 6; Issue 50007; col G (or column 7 if it needs to be numbered) -- Samesizedfeet (talk) 04:04, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Now we're getting somewhere. Thanks for the citations. I added the information back into the Hodson article and the Nellie Stewart article, but I still need citations for this information:

They had one child, George Walter Noel Pigeon, born in 1865

In 1888 she had her third child, Gilbert Stephen Hodson, who was the son of Charles Hayden Coffin, a Manchester born singer and actor. Is he the same actor as C. Hayden Coffin? -- Ssilvers (talk) 04:21, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Okay - that will take a little finding as sources will be in my family history notes.

From memory the Gilbert information came from a website that's long been deleted about the Labouchere family. Hopefully I can find a cache of it. I definitely have a printout of it and have confirmed it in genealogy terms but I doubt you can do a citation to the pile of papers in my office. And yes Charles Hayden Coffin is same as C. Hayden Coffin

It's currently 5am here so I'm going to attempt to sleep and then come back to you tomorrow with sources.

I have about 1000 articles on the Hodson sisters from contemporary newspapers so I will need to wade through them to find the right ones. Samesizedfeet (talk) 04:28, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, and good night. I'm looking forward to seeing any references you can offer, and I would be glad to help you improve all these articles about your relatives, if you can come up with the necessary references. I added a message to the top of this page that has lots of useful information for you about Wikipedia editing. I think that this one would be particularly helpful for you in understanding how to cite things on Wikipedia: WP:CITE, but as I said, I can help you with the citation format if you have published references available. Best regards, -- Ssilvers (talk) 04:32, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Added my first reference

I think I did it right......

It's on the page for my great grandad Oscar Linkson

If I'm not being a pest would you have a look and see if I did it right, please?

Yes, that is good, except that book titles should be in italics rather than "in quotes". While I am waiting for you to check on Hayden Coffin and Henrietta Hodson, I put the info about the third child in a footnote that says, "Some references state that Hodson may have had a third child, Gilbert Stephen Hodson, in 1887] with Charles Hayden Coffin. However, Hodson was 46 years old in 1887, and Coffin was 21 years her junior."
Re: Linkson, are there any other articles that should mention his name? -- Ssilvers (talk) 23:18, 2 April 2008 (UTC)


I have a lot of newspaper clippings on Oscar back at home but the majority of them are just fleeting references. Most of the info I have on him is really only of interest to me.

I have photos of him as well but I'm not feeling brave enough to go down that road quite yet.

I was searching some 19th century newspapers last night to see if I could pinpoint when/if Henrietta and Hayden Coffin could have met (unsuccessfully - not even a mention of her attending a play he was in). But I did find a couple of reviews from 1883 of him performing in London at St. Georges Hall - the first as a Tom Gilroy in Byron's "Partners for Life" (appears in The Era, January 13th 1883), and secondly a character called Vivid in "Monsieur Jacques" (The Era, June 23rd, 1883). Both look to be amateur productions. Samesizedfeet (talk) 23:38, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

I added the info to Coffin's article. Thanks! -- Ssilvers (talk) 02:41, 3 April 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Hodson

Can you come up for the references for the first and third children? If you need more time, I can take the information out of the article until you are ready. Best regards, -- Ssilvers (talk) 23:36, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi, I'm away from home now until the 6th April doing some research at the Bristol Theatre Collection. I do have some of my notes with me but don't think I'll be able to come up with anything conclusive until I return. -- Samesizedfeet (talk) 02:09, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

this is a reference to the son - although it doesn't name him. Freeman's Journal and Daily Commercial Advertiser (Dublin, Ireland), Tuesday, December 19, 1871, page 4, column 5 (line 17 is the bit of interest)

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k104/samesizedfeet/freemandsDecember191871.png Samesizedfeet (talk) 02:27, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

found where I got the name from now. It's from the International Genealogical Index held by the Church of the Latter Day Saints. They have a transcription of the baptism record. The date of baptism is in 1866 but his birth certificate was registered in 1865. There's a birth announcement in the Bristol Mercury saying he was born on April 5th 1865 - but it just says says "a son" Screen grab on link below http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k104/samesizedfeet/Picture2-1.png Samesizedfeet (talk) 02:51, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Good. I added the reference to the article. Got anything to show that the third child born in 1888, Gilbert Stephen Hodson, was the son of C. Hayden Coffin? No emergency. Thanks for all your references thus far! -- Ssilvers (talk) 04:04, 31 March 2008 (UTC)


I found the paperwork regarding Gilbert. The link is still live:

http://www.labouchere.co.uk/linkpages/labbyanddora.htm

Haven't had a chance to re-read it all properly (I first found it in 2004 and haven't gone back to it since) but first thing I notice is the author says Henrietta "Very probably" had another son.

Quite cross with myself for not verifying it properly before so I have ordered a copy of Gilbert's birth certificate to see what that says about his parentage. It should hopefully arrive within the next week.

If it proves Coffin is his father then I can scan it, but I'm not sure what the protocol is for reproducing it on here as it's Crown Copyright. I'll look into that as they have different rule for various types of Crown Copyright material Samesizedfeet (talk) 00:16, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for encouraging me to hunt out that source. For ages I've been trying to find where I saw the reference to Oscar Wilde being a friend and nicknaming her "Little Hetty". That will teach me to not keep my notes in good order. Samesizedfeet (talk) 00:25, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

There's a possible link for Dora Labouchere's 3rd husband Eugenio Ruspoli. It's not a page for him but a page about the Ruspoli family and their origins. Would you add that as Eugenio [Ruspoli] or leave it out completely as it's not directly about him?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruspoli

Samesizedfeet (talk) 00:57, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

OK, good work. We don't need to reproduce the birth certificate, we just need to review it, make any corrections and give bibliographical info as to where/how to obtain the certificate. I also linked Ruspoli and Starbarra. -- Ssilvers (talk) 01:34, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Let me know if you have more references for this or any other articles. I'm guessing that you do! Best regards, -- Ssilvers (talk) 01:44, 1 April 2008 (UTC)


Still waiting on the Hodson birth certificate. Postal delays I think. I have got Gilbert Stephen Hodson's marriage certificate from 1908 that shows he used both surnames his name is given as "Gilbert Stephen Hodson otherwise Gilbert Stephen Coffin". Unfortunately English marriage certs don't name mothers and the father is given as "unknown".

I'm hoping the birth certificate will prove more helpful. Samesizedfeet (talk) 19:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Henrietta Hodson - No third child

Birth certificate has arrived. Mother is given as "Emily Hodson, Dramatist". No father named. With a little research I've found Emily Hodson wrote a couple of comedies called "Another" and "The Editor". There's no obvious link I can find yet to Henrietta's family.

I can't find anything to prove the connection to Coffin, just the circumstantial evidence of Gilbert using both Hodson and Coffin on his marriage certificate. A friend checked for me and there's no Will for Coffin either, so no way to find out if he may have left a provision for Gilbert after his death, proving parentage.

I just wish I'd looked into it properly years ago as it would have certainly changed my view of Henrietta who I've always thought of as a bit heartless for having abandoned her son. -- Samesizedfeet (talk) 22:04, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

OK, mystery solved. Thanks for looking into it. -- Ssilvers (talk) 04:47, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Musgrove

Good additions to Musgrove. The article has a lot of unreferenced assertions. Can you supply any cites? I suspect that the article could also be expanded quite a bit. Can you also supply the exact dates (just the year, not the month) of the partnerships with Williamson? If so, we can compare it with Williamson and make sure that both articles have accurate info. Best regards, -- Ssilvers (talk) 23:19, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I can look into it. I'm in the middle or re-reading Harold Love's book on William Saurin Lyster which may have something. I can check the British Library Newspapers again as well as there's a couple of publications on there that report on Australian drama. Samesizedfeet (talk) 23:27, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

William Saurin Lyster has an article too, which I'm sure you will be able to improve, having read the book.... Wikipedia is endless! -- Ssilvers (talk) 23:50, 11 April 2008 (UTC)


According to the Otago Witness (New Zealand paper) of 3rd December 1881 Williamson Garner and Musgrove had just become joint lessees of the Royal in Sydney, on a three year lease. That's the first reference I can find of the three of them together.

Not sure if this link will work as it might just take you to the search page rather than search result http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&srpos=2&cl=search&d=OW18811203.2.55&e=-------en--1-DA---0musgrove+garner+williamson-all

according to this link:

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&srpos=4&cl=search&d=EP18820128.2.25&e=-------en--1-DA---0musgrove+garner+williamson-all

They actually entered into a formal partnership in July 1882 taking the lease of the Royals in melbourne and Sydney (Evening Post, New Zealand, 28 January 1882, Page 3) Samesizedfeet (talk) 18:03, 12 April 2008 (UTC)


GOT IT!!!

The Era (London, England), Saturday, March 18, 1882; Issue 2269

Owing to the advent of the pantomime season, Patience was removed to the Opera House, where it is now running under the management of WIlliamson, Garner and Musgrove. These three gentlemen enter into partnership on the 6th of May in the Theatre Royal Sydney and Melbourne.

Samesizedfeet (talk) 18:45, 12 April 2008 (UTC)


Partnership seems to have ended in March of 1890 according to Otago Witness of 6 March 1890, page 36:

Next month we are to have a change in the triumvirate which has been expected for some time. Messrs Wiliamson and Garner are to retain our Theatres royal and Princess, whilst Mr Musgrove takes the Sydney Royal. This will split the firm, but will not interfere in any way with the interchange of pieces and stars between the two colonies. This will be carried out as before. As Mr Williamson will be away for fully six months Mr Garner has got his work cut out for him to manage both the houses. http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&srpos=45&cl=search&d=OW18900306.2.166&e=01-01-1889-----en--41-DA---0musgrove+garner+williamson-all

I'm classing the "next month" as being March as most of their Australian news appears to be reported a week later after their news packets arrive - so this would have been in Australian newspapers at the end of February.

The company name continued as Williamson, Garner and Musgrove though as there are hundreds of references in The Era and Australian/New Zealand newspapers about people having been employed by them. Samesizedfeet (talk) 20:23, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Why don't you take a crack at putting the information into the articles, and I'll take a look when you're done. Happy editing! Best regards, -- Ssilvers (talk) 04:55, 13 April 2008 (UTC)