Talk:Samyaza

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[edit] Shemyazaz or Samyaza

Why are we calling the title character of this article "Shemyazaz" when the article itself is called Samyaza?

I assume this spelling is an attempt to draw a connection to "Azazel". However, while the transliteration may seem similar to the Anglophone ear, in the original Aramaic (preserved in the Dead Sea Scrolls) the spellings are clearly dissimilar. שמיחזה vs. עשאל I don't know how they compare in the Ethiopic, but the Aramaic should be considered more authoritative. The resemblance between the names seems to be a result of the inability of the Greek to transcribe the Semitic gutterals. The standard academic transliteration of the Aramaic is Šemiḥazah. Blackjack@jolly-roger.com

The Ethiopic version I have which was translated in 1882 spells his name as Azâzêl and Semjâzâ respectively. But I'm quite happy to bow down to Blackjacks obvious superior knowledge and go along with Šemiḥazah. But while this is being discussed I've changed all Shemyazaz to Samyaza as this is the name of this article at this time. --Shimirel 01:04, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

-- Yes, thank you! by looking at the History of this article, you can see that I tried in vain to replace all the variant spellings with the spelling that is used in the title of this article. I gave up because user 204.210.177.115 felt it necessary to be inconsistent with article title and the name of the subject in the text. Mike H.

-- He hasn't changed it back at the moment but I've got a watch on so we shall see! I can't see having multiple versions of the name spread through out the document is of any use to anyone. Anyhow love your "rehabilitation for rapists" part of your user page couldn't agree more what are the chances of it becoming law though ;^)> Richard

Shemihazar seems to be the more likely translation in the Hebrew from Shemay(heaven) - gazar (to Snatch)the epithet that so befits this Zophim —The preceding unsigned comment was added by SB Habakuk (talk • contribs) 11:24, 8 November 2006.

The article already lists Shemhazai (meaning 'heaven-seizer') as an alternate name for satan. I've reverted all your edits as they aren't really todo with Samyaza neither is The Apocryphon of John. -- Shimirel ^(Talk) 21:29, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

The events surrounding the descent of the Zophim on Mt. Hermon is clearly defined by the ancient writers- the process of their descent is not. The Apocryphon of John clarifies this, even in scientific terms. If this article is not edited then edits must be placed on those describing the physical make up of angels for it is unlike man. They are not of the same molecular structure or carry similar physical attributes. Therefore for an angel to come into a woman; there must be some process of change on the part of angelic beings

Secondly if this event happened then why has it stopped? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by SB Habakuk (talk • contribs) 11:03, 9 November 2006.

[edit] Samyaza and Semyaza

Now to the best of my knowledge it appears these two refer to the same entity just under different names but it may be that the Ouza has got things confused somewhere along the line. Or not. At the very least there seems to be interesting information which contradits some t=of what is said here (especially about the etymology of the name) and I didn't want to put up merge suggestions until someone checked things through. (Emperor 01:57, 3 February 2007 (UTC))

Yes I seem to recall all those names being used to denote the same angel. I say merge it, the trouble is for every translation you have a slightly different version of the name. Probably if you did some research Ouza comes from one paticular translation. I know at least one name in the book of enoch is so damaged you couldn't even translate it properly doesn't stop them from trying though :( -- Shimirel ^(Talk) 11:56, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Innacurate information in this article

The article says: "Samyaza is most likely another name for Sheten (Heb: 'the adversary'), who was originally an entity created in the service of God; he was the caretaker of God's throne, but later fell from the heavens because of his pride according to Isaiah 14:12-15 and Ezekiel 28:12-18. Jesus states that he saw Heilil fall from heaven like lightning in Luke 10:18. "

Well, Isaïas 14 is about the king of Babylon, a powerful but mortal man. In fact, in Isaïas 14:12 the hebrew word used to designate the king is Halal, which means "Morning Star". In the fourth century, Saint Jerome translated it into Latin using the word Lucifer, whose original meaning in Latin in also "Morning Star". That is why the term Lucifer can be found in Isaïas 14:12 in the Roman Catholic Bible. However, most rader would not know the original meaning of the word Lucifer, used by Saint Jerome. So careful current translations of the Bible (or the ones that are not based on Saint Jerome's translation) use, in Isaïas 14:12, the expression "Morning Star".

Ezekiel 28:12-19 is about one of the kings of Tyr, again a powerful but mortal man.

Jesus in Luke 10:18 never said that he saw Halal (or Heilil) to fall from heavens. Luke was written in Greek, not Hebrew or Aramaic. The word used in Luke 10:18 is Satanas (a greek version of the hebrew word Satan).

Finally it is important to note that "Morning Star" was a honorific title, it is even used to refer to Jesus in the Apocalysis (for instance, Apo 22:16).

[edit] Experimental side project

The article states:

Samyaza is also the name of an experimental side project from Casablanca, Morocco.

An experimental side project, if I might ask, of who/what exactly? Theelf29 01:20, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

I wondered too. Since it has been more than a year with no answer, deleted. Darkpoet (talk) 02:59, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Samyaza and Ouza

This article should be merged with the article titled Ouza, as that is simply another name for the same being.