Talk:Samus Aran

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  1. September 2006 – October 2006

Contents

[edit] low-rez image

Do we have to use that low resolution image in the article? It looks butt ugly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.42.147.68 (talk • contribs)

Agreed, why can't we get a Smash image of her? Or at the very least put an image of her Zero suit form on here. H2P (Yell at me for what I've done) 20:53, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
I could have sworn there was a higher-res image of her on this article before. Did someone change it recently? — KieferSkunk (talk) — 21:01, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
Yes, someone changed it. Apparently using the high-res version broke copyright rules, since it wasn't actually a public domain shot. Or so the claim going around is; I don't know how legit that reasoning actually is. Arrow 21:37, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
Fair Use is a sticky grey area. :P — KieferSkunk (talk) — 21:55, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] archive

I archived it. It got way too big.--Atomic-Super-SuitWhat Have I Done?! 04:02, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Possessive 's

I see that this article has been changed and even all of the old discussion is gone. Anyways, please make sure to use the possive 's correctly. This is the correct way: Samus's arm cannon is so cool. Note that there is an apostrophe and then an additional s. This is correct. See Saxon genitive for the correct way to show possession in English writing.

Anyways, I went ahead and fixed all of the possessive 's errors. I hope I didn't mess anything up. --olanmills 19:48, 10 January 2007 (UTC)


So... do you mean "possessive errors" or possessives' errors?" "Rule 1369 of interweb grammar correction: Any time you try to correct someone else, you will make a mistake yourself."

No, I meant what I said. I guess it wasn't clear. I meant possessive " 's" errors. Anyways, see the second entry below for a more thorough explanation--olanmills 03:03, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] sexist

no i am not a girl but saying that most female humans do not weigh 90kg is a bit sexist, dont you think. perhaps it could be changed to say something like according to images, it apears to be with power suit insted of saying with because she is a female. just a little sugestion, but i will change it in 24 hours... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikiencyclopedia.com (talk • contribs)

Or we could just remove that bit. If it wasn't specified, it wasn't specified. I say we let the readers decide for themselves; we're just here to report. Heck, for all we know those are perfectly sensible measurements for a part-Chozo human female in the far-future setting of the Metroid reality. --Sparky Lurkdragon 07:18, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
Well she's an in-shape human/Chozo who probably has a fair bit of muscle. And not amount of high tech gadgetry can fit less than 50 pounds of tech into he suit. 200lbs isn't too much, considering she's 6'3" and at least decently muscular.
There's actually an equation for calculating a person's "ideal" weight based on their height. For women the formula is 100 pounds for the first five feet, and six pounds for every inch above that. For Samus, that would give us an ideal weight of 190 pounds, though she would likely weigh a bit more than that due to the fact that she's fairly athletic, so 198 pounds is a very plausible weight for her without the suit.Tpkc klick 20:47, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
-Well, I'm female, 6-2 1/2 (freaky, huh?), athletically built and am around 173 (between 170 and 175 lbs) pounds on average -- I'm not bony or anything. Keep in mind tall people often have very long legs (Samus's Character does, and while we're at it, so do I) and a lot of weight is carried in the trunk. People with very short legs and a big trunk can gain and lose huge amounts of weight without it being noticed... people who have long legs and a small trunk generally can't get away with it as easily (unless the weight gain and loss occurs on the thighs hips, buttocks, and basically not on the trunk.) BTW, I put hyphens in front of my post and Sparky Lundgren to avoid our posts from appearing to be from the same user AVKent882 02:48, 12 October 2007 (UTC) A.V. Kent
-At any rate, I'm getting kind of sick of removing speculation on this in the article. Personally, I think it's probably her in the suit, but the fact is we don't know. --Sparky Lurkdragon 02:47, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Something I've noticed

Samus is typically portrayed in her suit--the only time she's seen outside of her suit in the games is during select ending sequences and the end part of Zero Mission. However, the page seems to give a different image of Samus--one of Samus outside her suit. The percentage of the pictures of Samus unsuited is too large (four out of nine counting only the ones from Metroid games). Is having a picture of the ending sequences from every single game necessary?

They're basically progression photos to show how she looks in the different games. I'm guessing. -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 09:45, 20 November 2006 (UTC)


I must say I agree with the fact that there's way too many Samus pictures of her outside her suit. This is not the way she is generally shown; a blonde happy chick. It would be more interesting to see more of the different suits she wore over the years.Mansize 15:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

I concur. But we should have at least one shot of her without a suit on. Like the one where she wears her halter top and shorts. Jackson Smith 21:32, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tense

This article needs a serious tense cleanup. Are we using the past, present, or furutre tense here? I see them all at once and am confused as to how to go about editing.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.196.169.10 (talk • contribs)

All the in-universe history stuff is supposed to be present tense, except possibly when discussing Samus's childhood before the games begin. Real-world stuff (i.e. "the game led players to believe she was male") should be past tense. Future tense is used when talking about Metroid Prime 3, because it's not out yet, but I'm not sure it should be. --Herald Alberich 13:39, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Metroid DNA

The way the article is put makes it look like Samus has metroid DNA in Metroid Prime: Hunters. Unless I'm mistaken, the only game she has metroid DNA is Fusion. Someone fix this, I'm too lazy. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Da p3n6u1n (talk • contribs) 21:52, 18 January 2007 (UTC).

Good eye, fixed. --Herald Alberich 22:10, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Possesives (again)

Why does some one keep changing it back? Look it's just English grammar. It's either right or it's wrong. It's not a matter of preference.

See Saxon genitive for the correct way to show possession in English writing.

To show that Samus has possession of something, you have to use an apostrophe plus an additional s. It's a common misconception that you omit the s when the word already ends in s. That is done for pluralized words that end in s. Here are some examples:

Correct: Samus's ship is fast.
Correct: The witness's testimony is solid.

Correct: All four of my tires' treads are in good condition.
Correct: The boxes' lids are all different colors.

Incorrect: Samus' arm cannon can be upgraded.

See Saxon genitive for the correct way to show possession in English writing. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Olanmills (talk • contribs) 05:45, 20 January 2007 (UTC).

Preach it!Xenongamer 22:07, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] About "Physical Characteristics" secton removal.

A Man In Black has removed the physical characteristics section of this article twice now without a reason given nor a word about it on the talk page. I think it is a worthy part of the article and should be included, at the very least there should be some discussion about it before it is deleted outright. Maybe we could move some of the data (height, weight, age, etc) into the infobox and merge the remainder into another portion of the article? I don't know of an infobox template that covers all the info, the one used for pro wrestlers seems pretty close though. How hard would it be to cobble one together out of that and the one currently on the page? Until then I'm going to re-add the section. Lando242 18:13, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

I've fixed this problem a bit but it still needs some corrections.Lokon40 04:10, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

It's unencyclopedic trivia, in greater detail than we go into for real people. It's all in-universe info, describing Samus as a real person instead of a part of a fictional story. It's just not what we do here. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 21:44, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

How do you know its describing her as a real person? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lokon40 (talk • contribs) 22:29, 15 March 2007

The info should be worked into the article, not given its own template/list. Plenty of fictional characters are described in detail. Just make sure you specify which game provides this information, and in what format (in-game, instruction book, etc.) otherwise it's just cruft. Noclevername 00:24, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Theories

Might I add that this article is completely theories. It is impossible to tell how exactly Samus's life is laid out. All we can do is theorize untill Nintendo comes out with (god forbid) a guide to Samus's life. those who read this article may think that all this is true. BULL!!! Just a warning to all...Xenongamer 22:05, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

No, it's not. We know the Metroid chronology, it's an established fact, and the e-manga provides details of Samus's childhood. --Herald Alberich 22:29, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
Actually, the chronology shown in the article is wrong... Both Metroid Prime and Prime 2 take place after the NES game and before Return of Samus and all other games in the series. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Link floyd (talk • contribs) 05:29, 13 March 2007 (UTC).
I think you're wrong, because on the official site for Metroid: Zero Mission, it has a timeline:
  • Metriod (/Zero Mission)
  • Metroid 2: The Return of Samus
  • Super Metroid (aka Metroid 3)
  • Metroid Prime
  • Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
  • Metroid Prime: Hunters (I don't know about this one, I assume it falls between MP2 and MP3)
  • Metroid Prime 3: Corruption
  • Metroid 4: Fusion
  • Metroid: Dread (I assume, although it's not an official game, but it was supposed to be a sequel to Fusion) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.7.141.45 (talk • contribs)
It makes more sense in this case to go by word from the game's creators via interviews instead of US-made websites that weren't put together by the people working on the actual games. I mean, if we did that, the Zelda articles would have to claim one Link has been time-traveling for a dozen games now. Arrow 20:24, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Prime 2 Timeline?

Doesn't Metroid Prime 2 take place after Super Metroid? One of the Federation Trooper logs in Prime 2 states that "there is no way a lone human could destroy Zebes."

It takes after Metroid Prime, which takes after Super Metroid. 24.7.141.45 15:52, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
No it doesn't. The entire Prime series takes place after Metroid, but BEFORE Metroid 2. —Preceding unsigned comment added by King Zeal (talk • contribs)
Just take a look at Metroid series#Chronology and Storyline. :) — KieferSkunk (talk) — 18:02, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
One of the Marine Logs mentions that Zebes exploded. Therefore Prime 2 takes place after Super Metroid. Taotd 05:29, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
Clearly that is an obvious mistake and they were referring to only Tourian, considering Nintendo and Retro Studios both have already confirmed the timeline KeiferSkunk just linked as being ironclad in various interviews both before and after Prime 2 came out. Arrowned 05:42, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merge Discussion ("Samus Aran's gunship" into "Samus Aran")

Starting the discussion for merging Samus Aran's gunship into this article (Samus Aran). Reason being that there is a HUGE amount of unnecessary detail on the gunship article, mainly detailing the cosmetic differences between the ship's different incarnations in each game in the series. There are very few functional differences in the ship in each game - it pretty much always serves the same basic purpose, regardless of its appearance and method of propulsion.

The only major differences in terms of functionality that I'm aware of are:

  • Metroid: Zero Mission: The original ship is destroyed in the game's ending, forcing Samus to steal a Pirate ship to get off-planet.
  • Metroid Fusion: The ship contains a computerized commanding officer and can take multiple creatures aboard.
  • Metroid Prime 3: Corruption: The ship is slated to have some automated air-strike capability, still yet to be finalized.

The remainder of the changes between games have to do with the ship's physical design (wings or lack thereof, method of propulsion, etc.), and these things do not need to be heavily detailed. Key features, like the front window's similarity to Samus's visor, seem to always stay the same, and those could also be called out in one or two sentences.

It was argued in Talk:Samus Aran's gunship that large portions of the article are fancruft. I think fancruft might be a bit too strong a term, but I do think there's a lot of redundant info that can be condensed into a section within this article, since Samus's gunship is an integral part of her presence in the series.

Okay, I'm done. :) — KieferSkunk (talk) — 19:51, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Since nobody came to discuss this issue, I have performed the merge, according to the rules in Wikipedia:Merging and moving pages. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 19:36, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
Okay, that is a rediculously brief entry, with respect to the amount of information that was in the deleted page. What's this "no one came" rational for going ahead with a merge that was decided against a few months ago when the page was completely reworked to trim OUT the fancruft? Angel the Techrat 20:03, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
I proposed a new merger a week ago. Aside from one person on the other page pointing out that a similar proposal had been made more than a YEAR ago before the page was reworked, NOBODY responded to this discussion or any discussion on the gunship page. According to the terms on the Wikipedia page, if there doesn't appear to be any controversy for at least 5 days (and pointing out a previous merge proposal more than a year in the past doesn't count, IMO), I can perform the merge and be bold.
In doing the merge, I kept information specific to the individual games in which the gunship has behavior that differs from "normal", but summarized information that is common to all games (such as the fact that the ship has changed cosmetically throughout the series, but its overall functions and reason for being are the same). When you perform that sort of "optimization" of the information, you end up with about 3-4 paragraphs of text, which is not enough to warrant a separate article with lots of pictures, IMO.
BTW, I merged information about the ship's appearance in SSBM and the comic book into the appropriate sections further down in this article. Based on that, nearly all of the information (minus the extra pictures, which are more appropriate for the individual game articles anyway) has been merged. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 20:19, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
Man In Black: Could you please refer to the edit history before deleting the whole Gunship section? The version I put in there was NOT crufty. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 00:54, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Huh, I thought that was the merge.
Currently, it's all sourced to personal observation and doesn't seem to be too terribly important (in the sources-have-felt-the-need-to-comment way), but your version looks a lot more useful than the lengthy, crufty, multisection version. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 00:57, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
I agree with needing to clean it up some - I've taken a couple first steps toward that. I do think that the gunship warrants its own section, as there are some key features about the gunship that deserve to be described in more detail than just "Samus uses it". But it didn't need the level of detail that it had in the original separate article. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 01:03, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
A very large point is that there have been four visualy distinct ships (not counting the upcoming Prime 3 ship), two of which have been destroyed through the course of the plot. And.. a shot of a ship that only appears once is not really the best example of a representative shot for the entry. I'm working on getting a better screencap. Will upload in a few minutes. Angel the Techrat 03:12, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
And I think that's a great point to include in the article, in pretty much the exact words you just used. But the point I was trying to make in doing the merge was that each incarnation of the ship didn't need its own sub-article. (Also, the Zero Mission screenshot was IMO the best one on the original gunship page - I would have used one from Prime or Prime 2, but the caps there weren't very good.) — KieferSkunk (talk) — 15:43, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

In response to this

Well, that's what the section immediately below is for, heh. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 01:02, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Plot Summaries

It just occurred to me that the majority of this page is overly-detailed plot-cruft. Since this page is about Samus, most games in the series would only warrant very brief descriptions of the game. The only games that would require more would be Zero Mission, Super Metroid, or Metroid Fusion, as they detail major events in Samus' life. Other than that, the games are basic missions for Samus. King Zeal 13:16, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. I've been looking for some sort of useful references to try and add some real-world context, to make this look something like Solid Snake. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 21:06, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
In the interest of cleaning this up, I'm thinking we should remove all of the section headings and convert the "Role in the Metroid series" section into a series of paragraphs (no more than one or two per game) that very briefly describe the nature of Samus's mission(s) in each game. The level of detail we have here is overwhelmingly unnecessary, and we don't need separate sections for each game. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 17:30, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hatchling Verification

KieferSkunk asked about this in an edit. The Chozo referred to Samus as "the Hatchling" in three different pieces of Chozo Lore in Metroid Prime, all in Chozo Ruins (Crossway - "Hatchling's Shell", Ruined Fountain - "Hatchling", and Magma Pool - "Newborn"). The text of them all is far too big to quote here though, so feel free to check in your own copy of the game. Alternately, there's a [FAQ] at GameFAQs that gives the text of all the lore, which would probably take less time than loading the game up. — Arrow 19:46, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Cool, thanks. :) I hadn't recalled her being referred to as the Hatchling, but that's good info. I'll refer to GameFaqs as a reference for that particular line. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 20:20, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Samus can be seen woth our her suit in almost every game

[edit] Trivia?

I noticed there is no trivia section for this article. Is it not necessary or something? If i is necessary, somebody please add it. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.15.28.42 (talk • contribs)

Trivia lists are actually frowned upon at Wikipedia. Arrowned 00:15, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image of Samus

The current picture of Samus outside of her suit is of somewhat low quality, and it doesn't really reflect her post-Zero Mission appearance, which has remained consistent up to and including Metroid Prime 3. Maybe a different image from one of the post-Zero Mission games should be inserted in its place?--4.242.24.180 01:23, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

We could replace it with the SSBB pic of Zero Suit Samus. bibliomaniac15 Tea anyone? 04:25, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
Here are the reasons why that would be inadvisable. First, according to Wikipedia Fair-Use guidelies , all images must be internet resolution (low resolution) or lower. Internet resolution is generally considered to be less than 0.1 megapixels to prevent production of counterfeit goods. Also, there is very little content of Samus in her zero-suit or of her out of her suit, and the article should reflect this. Also, since SSB is not considered part of the Metroid series, an SSB picture wouldn't be advisable, either. Finally, most post-Zero Mission pictures are either 2D or similar to her appearance in the Prime series, so to really save a lot of trouble with fair-user rationales and copyright issues, orphaned images, and the such, the current image is the most suitable. Trust me about uploading a copyrighted image, I've been there. It's not pretty.
--FastLizard4 (Talk•Links•Sign) 04:36, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
Even with the difficulties regarding copyrighted images, I don't believe that the current image should be considered the most suitable just because it's already there. Also, an image of Samus from Smash Bros. Brawl would still be viable because, even though it is an image from Smash Bros. and not Metroid, it does depict an accurate rendering of Samus in her Zero Suit. If you look at Zero Suit Samus from Brawl and Samus as she appears in the ending of Metroid Prime 3, you'd see that there is very little difference in her design. If an image of her from Brawl were used, it would just need to be accompanied by a caption stating that the image is from Brawl, but is an accurate rendering of her appearance in Zero Mission and beyond.--4.242.15.124 07:18, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
By all means, create an account, upload a picture, and witness the hassle first-hand. I would recommend you read the following first, however.
1. WP:FU
2. WP:FURG
Remember, theres nothing stopping you from uploading the image, and, in response to what you said, a previous discussion here came to the conclusion that the main picture should not be Samus in her Zero-Suit or out of her suit, to reflect the percentage of media in that respect. Also, it isn't the amount of trouble that is the problem, but Wikipedia discourages having other fair-use content beyond what is absolutely necessary.
--FastLizard4 (Talk•Links•Sign) 23:50, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
I'm not talking about the main image. I'm talking about replacing the image of her with her helmet off. And I don't really understand why it shouldn't be an image of Samus in her Zero Suit given that roughly half of the Metroid series as a whole has depicted her with the Zero Suit, as well as recent media outside of the Metroid series. Despite her numerous appearance changes from Metroid until Metroid Prime 1 and Fusion, her Zero Suit appearance has been her most consistent appearance outside of her power suit, which to me says that is what she really looks like in terms of current canon.--4.242.15.15 04:35, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
While it is a truly tremendous amount of trouble, licensing, rationales, image deletion requests, and the like, this probably would be ok. But, as I remember, someone tried to do that, and ended up getting the image deleted because it faintly read "Metroid Prime 3: Corruption" in the background. That sort of thing will get the image deleted, and this is the true question: Is it absolutely, positively, 100% needed? This is the question Wikipedia policy asks, and if the answer is no, uploading of an image for that purpose is frowned upon. Any simple mistakes which would seem trivial to you or me could spell a legal disaster for the Wikimedia Foundation.
--FastLizard4 (Talk•Links•Sign) 04:56, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
Well, that's a bit of an exaggeration. Plenty of websites use copyrighted media, under a claim of fair use, with far less written justification than we do, and receive no legal trouble for it. But Wikipedia is the "free" encyclopedia, so anything that's not free on our pages requires proof that there is need of it, and that's why the fair-use guidelines are so strict. --Herald Alberich 19:17, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
Not really. There was almost some legal trouble against the Wikimedia Foundation for a copyright violation on the page Trekkie. It's really a lot more important and critical then you think it is. The reason: Wikipedia is ranked #9 on Alexa Internet[1]. This makes it a larger target for "legal-watchers" from various organizations. Also, just because one person jumps off a cliff, are you going to do the same?
--FastLizard4 (Talk•Links•Sign) 22:10, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wrong time line / Article adjustments

OK, I have many issues with this article. I don't know what sources you got them from, but unless they are directly from Nintendo, I find this article to be inaccurate. According to logs through out Metroid Prime, Planet Zebes has already been destroyed. If planet Zebes is already destroyed how is it possible for Metroid Prime to take place between Metroid and Metroid 2: The Return of Samus? Explain that please.

Also, the grapple beam was not introduced until Super Metroid, which also makes an appearence at the beginning of Metroid Prime and throughout the game. Then there is the issue of the changes of ships. In Metroid Fusion, Samus Aran has a new starship borrowed from the GFS for her mission in the game, because her ship was wrecked after the X had invaded her suit/body. Technically speaking, Metroid Fusion should take place between Metroid Prime 2: Echos and Metroid Prime 3: Corrution, because in Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, Samus yet again has a different starship. Otherwise, Metroid Fusion is the odd one out. Finally there is the issue of Ridley. Ridley is brought back as Meta Ridley in Metroid Prime. And in Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, he is brought back as Omega Ridley. How do you explain him being "plain old Ridley" in Super Metroid, if these enhancements were the case. Not to mention the fact that that Ridley makes an appearance in Metroid Fusion. Which again, I re-iterate, technically according to those cues, Metroid Fusion, could technically take place between Metroid Prime 2 and Metroid Prime 3.

There are other ideas I could cover, but these are the major issues I see as good indicators that this article is inaccurate. Anyways, if you can answer those questions, I will gladly accept the Samus Aran article for what it is. Otherwise, I find this article to be biased and based on someones shoddy sources. The sources are right there to play. If you take enough time, to absorb it all, you can put it together, that was always the great mystery of Metroid, was piecing the time line together, otherwise I feel that this article should be taken down for the fact that its sources are fan made, not creator made. —Preceding unsigned comment added by RocmanRaz (talk • contribs) 01:20, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Thats the thing. If you scroll down to the nice, convenient "References" section, you will see the sources. Take a look and decide for yourself. Oh, and, what logs say that Zebes is destroyed in Metroid Prime? Because, according to the Metroid timeline (from Nintendo), the Prime series does, in fact, occur between Metroid/Metroid Zero Mission and Metroid II: Return of Samus, followed by Super Metroid, then Metroid Fusion. And of course, this is sourced (see Metroid (series)). And, on the note of the logs, couldn't I say, "technically speaking," that mistakes/lies are occasionally placed in logs? Also, take into account that Super Metroid and the other 2D games were made years before the Prime games were, the creators probably weren't anticipating the Prime series to be inserted between Metroid and Metroid II. On note of the ships, something related is that the USS Enterprise from Star Trek had at least 7 incarnations, some with no explanation or background. There's really nothing so surprising there. Ships would be constantly refitted to have new weapons, better engines, and the like. Well, that's my two cents, FastLizard4 (Talk•Links•Sign) 01:47, 24 September 2007 (UTC)


That's all and well. But quite a few of those reference links have 404 errors. Also, if you go to the Metroid: Zero Mission Official Homepage, they have a timeline there. On another note, we are not talking about Star Trek, I don't care about the Enterprise or its 7 incarnations. Samus ship is clearly destroyed at the beginning of Fusion and replaced. Now technically it can't be proven that Samus took the ship she acquired in Fusion and returned it to the GFS (thats all hypothesis), but CLEARLY Samus has a new ship in Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, where I might add, you do not board the ship from the top, but rather from underneath. Which is another supporting point that says the Metroid Prime games can not take place between Metroid and Metroid 2. Another note, how can you say that "on the note of the logs, couldn't I say, "technically speaking," that mistakes/lies are occasionally placed in logs?" If there is a log in Metroid Prime talking about (as someone stated in discussion) "One of the Federation Trooper logs in Prime 2 states that "there is no way a lone human could destroy Zebes,"" how is it possible for there to be knowledge of the Planet Zebes being destroyed IF Metroid Prime takes place between Metroid and Metroid 2? Please explain that, and don't tell me someone was writing about the future in their logs. The proof is in the games, not outdated resources on the internet. But I have to agree w/the one guy in discussion, this is all based on theory, everything. Until there is an official "Guide to Samus' life" (as Xenongamer put it) its all just theory. Perhaps this article should discuss Samus Aran and not the timeline of her adventures, not to say the timeline is the majority of the article. Focus on the idea that she was the first female video game heroine. And about her origins w/the Chozo, and her power-ups. Not so much on fallible timeline based on numerous sources that say different things. That's my four cents. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.195.3.100 (talk) 12:35, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Much of this is a moot discussion. The timeline as it's shown on Wikipedia is Nintendo's official timeline, and this was validated by the Japanese Zero Mission site (NOT the American; US sites have been known to get info wrong... I'm looking at you, Legend of Zelda) and the demo disc of Prime 2. The only real issue here is that these references/links are correctly displayed on Metroid (series) but not on Samus Aran; somebody needs to fix that. Arrowned 19:45, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
And to clarify something, my Star Trek point was a bad example for something I just though of: the reason why the changing ship designs is not abnormal is, as in the Star Trek example, you would want to "refit" your existing technology, whatever it may be, whether it be starships, tanks, guns, artillery, and military or technological device. For example, what good would it do to use a 1911 WWI battletank in Iraq? What good would it to to use a Spitfire against an F-16? That's what I am getting at.
--FastLizard4 (Talk•Links•Sign) 02:41, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] girl with weight of hte world on her shoulders

Is Samus sometimes referred to as the "girl with the weight of the world on her shoulders?" For some reason I thought I saw that somewhere. It's also shown in the video "Haloid," but I'm pretty sure I saw that from some official nintendo thing. Drewboy64 03:44, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Super Metroid: Samus Gunship

AVKent882 02:32, 12 October 2007 (UTC) A.V. Kent You know it's amazing how much Samus' gunship looks like the alien spaceship in Flight of the Navigator (1986)...

Anyone agree?

Doesn't matter, isn't notable. Also opinion. DurinsBane87 02:47, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Samus vs. Master Chief info

Who thinks that the recent character battle on IGN between Samus and Master Chief should be at least briefly mentioned in the article? The fact that Samus beat Master Chief seems to me like a significant indication of how popular and well-established she is compared to a character who is well-known yet a relative newcomer.Abodos 05:19, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Might be worth mentioning. In this case, it would probably be best to mention the event in both this article and in Master Chief's article. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 06:13, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
IGN has character battles all the time. I've never seen the winners get posted on wikipedia before. I don't see why it's really that notable. I mean, Halo's really popular, but Metroid has been really popular for 20 years. DurinsBane87 07:13, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Evolution of character

Would there be any value in documenting how the character's appearance has changed? I don't mean modifications in the rendering of the power suit, Fusion notwithstanding, many of those can be attributed to improving graphics.

I'm referring to the visual portrayal of the character herself, as she has been portrayed over the series, increasingly exploring the woman beneath the suit. Mario, Sonic, Link, and other iconic characters have been largely defined for a while, but with her armor limiting our view of her, and only visible for the percentage of gamers who complete the hardest challenges, her changes have both taken longer and changed more dramatically.

Subjectively, I know many older gamers, introduced to Samus as a brunette/green haired woman in the original, have been surprised at the bright blonde version appearing in Smash Bros. Brawl, a version established in the most recent GBA game, and which is possibly going to be her commonly accepted appearance. But I've researched a bit, and while the GBA games have really defined her appearance this way, especially with the increasing entire 'reward' illustrations showing her as blonde, this has been supported increasingly in the Metroid:Prime series.

1.The original game, in which her gender was a surprise for the ending, established her as brunette (the ending)/ green (the easter egg allowing you to play with the suit off). 2.Metroid II, in black and white, gave the world its first really detailed look at Samus. She sported a bellybutton-exposing tankini, as opposed to her NES bikini top. The more detailed look gave her actual facial features. The black and white obscured the hair color, though. 3.Super Metroid shook things up a bit, with Samus gaining significant musculature, as opposed to the straight glamour shot of Metroid II (the pixilated bikini pose from the first game is graphically sparse in conveying style) and shifting her to a dark blonde/possibly orange-ish redhead.

Years of gaming silence without a Metroid game, then...

4. The Gamecube version, Metroid Prime, with a more realistic-looking world, gives a head shot, with definite tied-back blonde hair and classical facial features.

5. The GBA games of Metroid Fusion and Metroid:Zero provide several illustrations of her complete physique, and as a bright, almost bleached, blonde. Her hair has been lengthened to mid-back length, (possibly more noticably in the Japanese release endshots?), and she has traded in her bikini bottoms for 'short shorts,' retaining the more midriff-revealing halter top from Super Metroid.

Metroid:Zero Mission also introduces her appearance in the "Zero suit," a light blue, form fitting bodysuit worn under the armor. For the first time, we see Samus with a ponytail (obscured in the headshot in Prime). All of the 'reward art' has her with this hairstyle (locks of hair framing her face, but the rest of her hair tied back). This look was rendered into 3D for Prime:2 almost exactly, and appears to be the standard for the upcoming Smash Bros. Brawl, as well.

(Subtle differences exist in Samus' appearance in the DS title Prime:Hunters, story-line-wise between Prime 1 and 2 - the hair is a little darker and in a simpler, more functional ponytail. Whether this look was tailored with regard for her other appearances timeline-wise is not clear.)

In summary, there is a clear evolution of the character's appearance (although 'evolution,' implying progress, may not be the right word for such a subjective field). There may be enough changes for conversation about possible significance or meaning in the character's design to be worthwhile, in which case these changes are important. Others may view these changes as the kind of fanboy minutia that Wikipedia needs to limit or ignore. Which is why I am posting this under 'discussion,' first.--70.95.226.180 02:39, 22 October 2007 (UTC) Amendment: If it is of use for discussion, although probably not citation, this website does an excellent job of showing the changes: http: // www. thisischris .com / feature / 2005 / samus.html --70.95.226.180 02:43, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Not first playable Nintendo female character

The article says: "Samus is considered the first playable female character in a Nintendo game."

This is wrong. "Vs. Ladies Golf" (copyright 1984) had players controlling a female golfer. "Volleyball" (copyright 1986) had a Women's team available, and was released 16 days before Metroid in Japan. --Dwedit 05:54, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

We should probably reword the sentence slightly, to: "Samus is widely considered the first significant playable female character...", since the Vs. Ladies Golf and Volleyball games didn't feature characters of any particular significance. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 22:33, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
What about Super Mario Bros. 2 with Princess Peach? --172.165.114.247 (talk) 14:45, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Beam and Suit Cruft

We're getting crufty again. We already deleted/transwiki'd the "Objects/Items in the Metroid Series" article, and now this article is starting to take on similar content - namely, the list of beams and suits. Do we really need to go into detail on each of Samus's individual weapons and armor suits? We can describe her beam and missile weaponry in a few sentences, mentioning that they are upgradeable in another sentence, and we can summarize the purpose of her suits without needing to outline each one. The Varia suit is arguably significant in its own right because of its general functionality and usefulness to the protagonist, and the Zero Suit is already mentioned in an appropriate manner, but if there's any need to go into detail on any of these, they should be described in their appropriate articles - for example, the Light and Dark suits only appear in Metroid Prime 2: Echoes.

Let's try to keep the cruft down, guys. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 22:38, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

The only other thing I would mention is that the Varia suit's distinctive round shoulders were a by-product of the Game Boy's limited technology. (Since the GB didn't have any color, Nintendo was forced to alter the Varia Suit's design to make it appear different than the normal Power Suit.) This is significant, because from Super Metroid on, the Varia Suit has become Samus's "default" look. —Preceding unsigned comment added by King Zeal (talk • contribs) 13:31, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
I agree that this is a good thing to include. But right now, the Beams and Suits sections are *REALLY* crufty and duplicate a lot of the content that we deleted and transwiki'd to WikiTroid months ago. I cleaned up the Missiles section - let's see if we can get the rest of the article back in line with VGProj guidelines. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 08:10, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] She talks!

Samus has a few spoken lines in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. She says at least "try me" and "is that all?" when you use her taunts as Zero Suit Samus. Voiced by Jennifer Hale apparently. You guys might to reword a few parts of this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.234.206.177 (talk) 00:13, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Voiced by Alésia Glidewell actually, though that VA credit was removed from her site and thus has no proper route for sourcing at the moment. Something about this does need to be added to the article; the last time it was added, I reverted it, but only because I didn't agree with the placement. I probably should've just moved it. Arrowned (talk) 00:40, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Jennifer Hale: Incorrect Credit?

I've looked through videos of the credits for the Metroid Prime games, and I haven't seen her name or Carren Learning anywhere. In addition, it's not listed in her video game roles on her website. Was there any actual documentation of her voicing Samus, because if not, the credit should be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Batwing321 (talk • contribs) 12:45, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Samus Aran/Archive 1#Jennifer Hale? EDIT: Annnd now that I have a Game Informer subscription and was finally able to check that article for myself, it turns out there's no mention of Metroid in it at all. Arrowned (talk) 12:50, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
It wasn't in the article, it was mentioned in a sidebar in the magazine itself. -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 18:41, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
Any scans available? Even if it's a mistake, it'd be good to see it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.143.192.239 (talk) 06:45, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] More Pictures?

I think a nice additon would be a few more pictures. A picture of her in her Power suit would be nice(one without huge shoulder pads), an image of a sidescrolling level of Super Metroid, an image of her in her zero-suit from the MP3 ending, and an image of seeing through her visor in a Metroid Prime game. --Timetobrawl 16:56, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Just because it would make the article 'look pretty' is not a valid reason to use images covered by someone else's copyright. See WP:FAIRUSE. 144.15.255.227 (talk) 22:28, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

I am pretty sure atleast an image from a sidescroller type Metroid would be important, as samus spent a great deal of time in the 2D. Timetobrawl 19:22, 15 April 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.205.171.192 (talk)

This is more in the direction we should take this convo. We need to figure out the best number of images the page should have (all your suggestions before would've made for eight images in a seven page article which is horribly cluttered), and then figure out which images would be most important to take up that number of spots. At most, I say four: leave the Varia Suit image at the top, keep one of the ones of her suitless (we already have the ZM one; switching to the Prime 3 version isn't entirely necessary), and then one image each of in-action gameplay of a 2D game and a 3D one. You could bump it to five images to leave the gunship picture in, but that's arguable IMO. Arrowned (talk) 01:23, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

We could replace the MP one of her with her helmet reoved of when she reoves her helmet in a MP3 ending sequence, which is a more recent representation.Timetobrawl 11:31, 17 April 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.203.58.44 (talk)

Probably not a good idea. Because of the nature of the scenes where the Zero Suit appears in Prime 3, you're only ever going to find partial shots of her body. The Zero Mission ending image currently in the article shows almost her entire body, which makes it the better option. Arrowned (talk) 18:33, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
I remember a rather heated debate over on WT:VG a while back about what images we should use for various characters when multiple renderings exist. (For example, Link and Bowser both came up in that discussion, and both have had significant redesigns over their lifetimes.) I'm not sure if we ever all agreed on which image to use as a general rule, but I argued that we should use the most recognizable/representative one for the infobox image, even if it's not necessarily the most recent. In a couple of cases, I think we agreed that SSB Melee actually gave the most recognizable rendering even over the official games. (Ice Climbers come to mind.) — KieferSkunk (talk) — 18:40, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
Yes, I know that discussion was used for Pit's page as well. Going along that mentality, it would make the most sense to use her Brawl Zero Suit incarnation since it's recent enough to give a good idea of how it looks, plus the available images can be more easily fair-use'd (since it's available on a company website). Then too, there's the fact that we could easily get a Brawl-based picture of her that's full size and not just showing partial body shots like Prime 3. Arrowned (talk) 01:06, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Ya know, we could use the image of her with her helmet off as seen in the MP3 ending, probably a more recent representation of her, and it is not a partial image. Timetobrawl 16:56, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

But you were arguing for an updated picture of her Zero Suit. A picture of her in the Varia Suit with the helmet off is useless as the only difference it shows from the giant Varia image at the top of the article is her head. Arrowned (talk) 01:19, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

I am just trying to see if anything can be done to improve this article, I do not want nothing but another Zero suit image, I meant that with her unmasked in MP3 you could see her appearance. just a more recent version of the image of her unmasked from the first Metroid Prime. Also, should we think of getting a 2D action shot, as the 2nd dimension is where Samus has spent most her time. Timetobrawl 16:56, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Based on?

I was just reading the Ironman article when it hit me that Samus' armor bears a huge resembelence to Ironman's both in shape and color as well as being mounted with weapons and similar interfaces. Anybody know if Samus was based off of Ironman? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.24.105.30 (talk) 00:22, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

The article says that she was directly based on Ellen Ripley, though Iron Man may have had some influence as well, along with Boba Fett (both Fett and Samus being planet-hopping armored bounty hunters with personal spaceships). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.165.114.247 (talk) 14:47, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Couldn't say I know for certain, but I think the appearance of Samus's body armor is coincidentally similar to Iron Man's. In order to add anything of this nature to the article, we'd need a reliable source that states that the developers/designers were inspired by that character. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 03:15, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] pronunciation

How do you pronounce "samus"? Is it sah-mus or sam-us? --Sphetr2 (talk) 13:18, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

According to the announcer and cheering crowd in Smash Bros., it's pronounced "Sam-us". King Zeal (talk) 14:47, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Power Suit

Shouldn't we have a list of the different Power Suits? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.206.95.207 (talk) 01:40, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Nope. We've had a consensus for a while that lists of items (including variants of the Power Suit and their capabilities) are not encyclopedic, per project guidelines. This article used to have a lot of items listed, and we also had a separate List of Items in the Metroid Series, which was a HUGE article full of listcruft. That information is better suited for a gaming wiki, but it doesn't inherently help an average layman reader understand the game as a whole - it's information that is mostly interesting to people already familiar with the game and/or series. Please see the guidelines page for more information. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 03:13, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Snapshots

Please consider adding this gallery as a list of relevant photos about Samus RyanTMulligan (talk) 16:46, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, the site is amusing enough, but I don't think we can use it for anything in this article. Sorry. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 21:04, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
Hmm, okay well thank you for considering it. RyanTMulligan (talk) 22:10, 15 May 2008 (UTC)