Talk:Samurai

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Samurai article.

Article policies
Archives: 1
This article is within the scope of the following WikiProjects:
Other languages WikiProject Echo has identified Samurai as a foreign language featured article. You may be able to improve this article with information from the Arabic language Wikipedia.


Contents

[edit] Citation tag mania

You know, I am all for providing references and verifying information. However, I detest when I visit a page that is in need of citation, and some obsessive person has inserted the Citation tag after every other sentence. Yes, we get the point, but it is not necessary to mark up the entire page with fact-tags. HINT: the cleanup/citation tag at the top of the page is much more effective at pointing out the need for help. (end rant) Historymike (talk) 02:19, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Dude!

There are a lot of un-verified claims in this article! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.17.6.172 (talk) 03:03, 22 February 2008 (UTC)


NO kidding!!! Not only were the Samurai extremely literate from the 7th century and especially the 12th century onward, by the time of Meiji restoration they had higher literacy than Europe!

http://books.google.com/books?id=4kGJ86s8MB4C&pg=PA51&dq=literacy+in+japan&lr=&sig=BPrIW9cFNPLlfv9oRnkECOqEdHM http://books.google.com/books?id=8W_FjIMpOEkC&pg=PT46&dq=literacy+in+japan&lr=&sig=YaHKZngrWI77D0Sygewd3ycRY_4#PPT46,M1 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.176.40.77 (talk) 19:06, 8 June 2008 (UTC) http://books.google.com/books?id=GDfJ2NCETdAC&pg=PA258&dq=literacy+in+japan&lr=&sig=ILDj48MKKD28j0DAu4HjTmJo39o

this book also mentions literacy rates

http://books.google.com/books?id=EFQYAAAAIAAJ&q=literacy+in+japan&dq=literacy+in+japan&lr=&pgis=1 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.176.41.21 (talk) 19:15, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

IVE SPENT YEARS STUDYING THIS TOPIC, DECADES ACTUALLY. WHO EVER WROTE THE FOLLOWING IS FULL OF IT. WHAT THE WRITER BELOW MEANS HE HASNT READ ANYTHING AND SO IT DOESNT EXIST.

THE REALITY IS THAT THERE IS PLENTY OF LITERATURE BACKING THE HEIKE MONOGATARI IDEAL OF THE EDUCATED WARRIOR

It is necessary to remember, however, that the Heike warriors are men fictionalized by a fourteenth century dramatist, and the tales about such warriors had been modified for centuries before the Tale of the Heike was actually written down.

Thus, while we can, if careful, see some of how warriors behaved in literary sources, the actual behavior of early samurai is difficult to glean from literature alone. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.176.40.77 (talk) 19:36, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Need to extend introduction

After This section “Samurai (侍?) is the term for the military nobility of pre-industrial Japan. The word samurai is derived from the archaic Japanese verb samorau, changed to saburau, meaning "to serve"; thus, a samurai is a servant, i.e. the servant of a lord.” Their needs to be a more for an un knowing reader to be able to grasp the subject better. Something like this “the samurai, an elite class of armored warriors, dominated Japan from the 12th century. Their fighting prowess and tradition of loyal service to the death – enshrined in the chivalric code of bushido – are the stuff of legend. But in reality, samurai ascendancy brought instability, vilenc and civil war". [1] .". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cisalter (talk • contribs) 00:53, 26 March 2008 (UTC) diablo -w- here Amanda —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.48.236.214 (talk) 19:51, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Ieyasu brought peace for 268 years to a country torn apart by violence and warfare. The undoing of his society was caused by many things--outsiders, the relaxation of laws that kept peace such as sankin kotai —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.176.40.77 (talk) 19:11, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] REMOVING FALSE DATA

>For most of samurai history, warriors described themselves as followers of "kyuba no michi," or the "way of the bow and horse," and >had no overlying code of ethics to which they were beholden.[citation needed] To be sure, samurai were expected to comport >themselves in a certain manner, but any specific points of behavior would have been limited to family or clan teachings.[citation needed]

--I HAVE NEVER SEEN A WARRIOR DESCRIBE HIMSELF AS A FOLLOWER OF "kyuba no michi,"--EVER. IT WAS A TERM DESCRIBING THE WARRIOR PATH, BUT I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANYONE SAY IN WRITING "I FOLLOW KYUBA NO MICHI" WHO EVER WROTE THIS IS IGNORANT OF HISTORY.

--WHAT I HAVE SEEN IS WARRIORS TELLING THEIR FOLLOWERS TO STUDY LITERATURE AND "BUSHIDO" OR "BUDO"

EXAMPLES:

One should put forth great effort in matters of learning. One should read books concerning military matters, and direct his attention exclusively to the virtues of loyalty and filial piety.

"If a man does not investigate into the matter of Bushido daily, it will be difficult for him to die a brave and manly death. Thus it is essential to engrave This business of the warrior into one's mind well."

The above conditions should be adhered to night and day. if there is anyone who finds these conditions difficult to fulfill, he should be dismissed, an investigation should be quickly carried out, it should be signed and sealed that he was unable to mature in the Way of Manhood, and he should be driven out. To this, there is no doubt."

TO ALL SAMURAI

Kato Kazuenokami Kiyomasa



EXAMPLE 2

"Without knowledge of Learning, one will ultimately have no military victories."

"It is natural that training in the martial arts is the Way of the warrior, but it is important to put them into actual practice. First, it is written in the Four Books and Five Classics as well as in the military writings that in protecting the country, if one is ignorant in the study of literature, he will be unable to govern.

Being born into a family that has from the beginning earnestly known the Way of Battle, it is truly regrettable to wastefully tamper with the domain, support no soldiers, and receive the scorn of all."

Thus the above is written

in the 19th year of Oei (1412 A.D.)

Imagawa Ryoshun


EXAMPLE 3

It is not the Way of the Warrior to be shamed and avoid death even under circumstances that are not particularly important. It goes without saying that to sacrifice one's life for the sake of his master is an unchanging principle.

That I should be able to go ahead of all the other warriors of this country and lay down my life for the sake of my master's benevolence is an honor to my family and has been my most fervent desire for many years.--TORII MOTOTADA, 1600AD


EXAMPLE 4

No matter whether a person belongs to the upper or lower ranks, if he has not put his life on the line at least once he has cause for shame.

"Bushido is in being crazy to die. Fifty or more could not kill one such a man." --Nabeshima Naoshige (1538-1618 A.D.)


AND BY THE WAY, IMAGAWA'S WRITINGS WERE WIDESPREAD ACROSS THE REALM AND FOLLOWED BY OTHER FAMILIES. OTHER WARRIORS ACTUALLY QUOTE HIM IN THEIR OWN WRITINGS. THEY WERE SO FAMOUS THAT TOKUGAWA SOUGHT THEM OUT 200 YEARS LATER TO USE AS FEUDAL LAW DURING HIS SHOGUNATE.

kATO WAS SO FAMOUS, HE WAS CHOSEN TO LEAD PRETTY MUCH ALL OF THE COUNTRY'S MAJOR FAMILIES IN KOREA--MORE THAN 300,000 MEN, OVER WHICH HE HAD DIRECT CONTROL OF 150,000. HIS CODE AND BELIEFS WERE UNIFORM AND WELL KNOWN TO THE SAMURAI OF PRETTY MUCH THE ENTIRE COUNTRY SO LETS STICK WITH THE FACTS HERE —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.176.40.77 (talk) 19:52, 8 June 2008 (UTC)