Talk:Samoa

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I swapped the section concerning New Zealand's occupation of Western Samoa with the corresponding section in the History of Samoa article since the version in this article was more detailed. of Samoa? Kaldari 17:05, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Link to Wikimedia

There is a Wikimedia category called Samoa with lots of pictures, shouldn't it be linked to this article somehow? Kronocide 01:45, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Fixed the link of "Baha'is" to point to the "Baha'i" wiki entry

[edit] Badly written

If you read the following, you may notice it was written by someone who has not yet mastered the English language... I neither have the time nor knowledge to rewrite this section of the article on Samoan culture, but if there is someone who does... Please do so :)

Long ago, the Samoan people had a spiritual hierarchy of spirits or aitu of their own. At the head of this important hierarchy was "Tagaloaalagi". Tagaloaalagi was the ancient supreme being or God who created heaven and earth from the Samoan point of view. The Samoan culture is mainly about respect. And ever since the Christian way of life was introduced by the "palagi's" as we call in Samoan: White People(Europeans, Americans etc) Ever since it was introduced in Samoa, most Samoan people were converted and from then till now, 98% of the people are Christians. But the other 2 percent, it's either unreligious, which means they still beleive in the Christian way of life but does not keep it, or does not belong to any congregation. Church or going to church is an important thing for the Samoans, the only ones who stay home on Sunday, are the only ones that's preparing the meal, or doing the "umu" for the Sunday Meal, every Sunday after church.

In the Samoan way of chieves in each village, like other cultures, the Samoan does their way of ruling in an hierarchical order. From the chieves(matai) to the citizens and the "aumaga's"-also known as the ones who does all the work in the village, for instance, cleaning the village each week and prepares a meal in an "umu" for the chief. The "aumaga" service is a volunteer service, and the most important task of the "aumaga's" is to protect the village from any other villages. The aumaga's are like the soldiers of a village, and long ago, the "aumaga's" were the ones who fought wars between villages. The consequences were simple, if anyone breake any rules, he/she will pay the village with giving the whole village "tongan tapas" or what we called in Samoan, "ie toga". These Tongan Tapas are not necesarily made by the Tongans. What we know according to some songs is that during the Tongan invasion of Samoa, they took the chief's daughter, "Sina", and while she was in Tonga, she created the first Tapa, and she calls it, the "Tongan Tapa" because she made it in Tonga, while she was a hostage in Tonga. These "ie toga" tapas were like money if I put it in clearer details, anybody can buy or trade anything with it. So basically when you break any rules, you have to pay for it, today they use money, but long ago they used tapas.

I've had a go at cleaning up some of the article (History of Samoa). Not sure if I have the energy to continue! Cpl Hicks 15:06, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Map Size

Is it possible to get a map of Samoa where the country is not miniscule? Maybe one to show its location in the South Pacific and then one to show the country itself. Ganymead 05:37, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Explanation of Electoral System and details of Electoral Constituencies

An explanation of the electoral system is needed to explain the criteria that decide who can vote and where as well as who can run for parliament and where (both for the traditional districts and the individual voters seats).

Also it would be useful to have a page that lists the varrious electoral constituencies and the villages that they are composed of and perhaps a history of incumbents and their parliamentary terms and political affiliations. The problem is where to fit this info in.

[edit] Judicial System

Also it would useful to explain the TWO judicial systems that co-exist ie the western based Supreme Court and lowers courts and the Traditional based Lands and Titles Court which deals with traditional land and title (chiefly)issues.

[edit] Religion

The article says that 100% of Samoans are Christians, but that 2% are Bahai - my rudimentary math skills add that up to 102% - which is accurate? Are 98% Christians?

It seems that at August 13 anonymous user (randomly?) changed all the percentages of of different religious groups. The old percentages were pretty much the same as in CIA World Factbook. Someone with better knowledge should do something to correct the percentages. TommiR 07:56, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
Fixed info according to 2006 CIA Factbook. Aranhamo 21:28, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Commonwealth Membership

This country is listed as a member of the Commonwealth of Nations at the official Commonwealth site: [1]

[edit] Possible bias

I'm a little concerned with the language that is/was being used in the History of Samoa section. Obviously the author has a very dim view of the period of administration under New Zealand! Anyway, I removed a few subjective terms (such as 'foolish') but have left the most of it untouched, as I'm not an expert in this area. Nonetheless, there is a troublesome tone throughout - though I think some citations would help corroborate the author's opinion. Cpl Hicks 15:11, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed WikiProject

In my ongoing efforts to try to include every country on the planet included in the scope of a WikiProject, I have proposed a new project on Polynesia at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals#Polynesia whose scope would include Samoa. Any interested parties are more than welcome to add their names there, so we can see if there is enough interest to start such a project. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 17:19, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Confusing dates/times

In the History section, in the paragraph starting Contact with Europeans began in... there are a mish-mash of conflicting dates, time periods, and time-relative terms. Among the (several) possible readings is that 1722 was in the late 19th century, which does not seem to be correct. Paul.w.bennett 12:14, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

  • Agreed. I got the European meeting date from the US State Department website and just changed it in the article. Also, the nonsense about the Germans repelling the New Zealanders sounds very unfeasable, not in the least because the dates contradict. --Gerolsteiner 06:22, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Complaint/Information Incorrectly Put On Main Page

Samoans and Asians arent' the same...just like how every asian says they're "Hawaiian"....there are few FEW pure Hawaiians today!!**** We did not come from Asia...God put everybody where we are now!! (from lil'mo), ps Samoa is known as the heart of polynesia. Some people believe that a temple on the island of Manono has a record, using a system of stone cairns, commemoratating more than 150 wars. Robert Louis Stevenson, who spent the last four years of his life in Samoa, remarked that "War is Samoa's favourite pastime." (It is fair to say that in contemporary times team competition, particularly rugby, volleyball, kirikiti, traditional song and dance, and traditional water sports, have replaced war.)


Removed MMA fighter BJ Penn from the list of Samoan atheletes. Until someone can provide a link showing proof that he's actually Samoan I think it's irresponsible to have his name there. - Billy Button

[edit] Is Samoa a sovereign nation? Is the Malietoa Tanumafili II the head of state?

Could somebody please clarify these two points. I've seen people assert in Talk:Bhumibol Adulyadej that Samoa is not a sovereign nation, and therefore that the Samoan monarch is not the head of state. Furthermore, it's been stated that Samoa is not even a monarchy. Yet this article states that Mālietoa Tanumafili II is the head of state. I'm confused. Patiwat 20:34, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

The article states (in the infobox) that Samoa became independent (of New Zealand) on 01 January 1962, making it one of the first independent nations in Oceania.--Ratzer 20:30, 14 March 2007 (UTC)


Samoa is an independent nation. It became so in 1962, after 45 years of New Zealand colonial rule. Samoa has a Head of State who is Malietoa Tanumafile II. Samoa is not a monarchy.Paulava 09:15, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] American Samoa

Should that part under Sport in Samoa about Samoans in the NFL be removed? If the article is about the Independent State of Samoa, and all the Samoan players are from American Samoa, shouldn’t that info just be there? Or are there players living in the United States from the Independent State of Samoa in the NFL as well? —Wiki Wikardo 17:54, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Citation Issues

The first three sencences in the Economy Paragraph were copypasted from the CIA World Factbook but uncited. I fixed it, but someone should go over the rest to make sure information is sourced properly. --63.164.201.237 19:30, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Interim head of state?

Is there any provision in the Samoan constitution as to who exercizes the authority of the O le Ao o le Malo while the new one is being elected? Often it's the speaker of the parliament of some such, or the prime minister ... either way, if the vacancy is going to last any length of time (and when will the Parliament elect a successor) we should indicate the interim figure. --Jfruh (talk) 21:25, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] History Section

The history section was deleted by an editor using an IP address on April 17th. As that same user also vandalised other parts of the article on that day, I've assumed bad faith and restored it from the previous version. However, the separate article at History of Samoa actually looks shorter than this section. Someone with more time should look at rationalising the two. Rojomoke 11:33, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pro wrestling

Jimmy Snuka is Fijian, not Samoan.

I am pretty dang sure he IS Samoan, just from Fiji (Like I am Anglo-Saxon but born and raised in Hawaii, but I am not Hawaiian), maybe part Fijian? Billy Nair 22:54, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Parliamentary democracy vs Parliamentary republic

I have reverted a recent change from democracy to republic. The offical government site is less than clear on this issue. However, the Head of State in Samoa is appointed by the parliament and has many of the trappings of a monarch, including the address as "His Highness". The head of state has little executive power, unlike in many republics, although his assent is required to enact laws, as it is in constitutional monarchies. Malaysia comes to mind as a model for how the government is constructed and it is listed in Wikipedia as a Federal constitutional monarchy. Clearly the federation issue is irrelevant in Samoa. It is possible that Samoa is really a constitutional monarchy and when the last Head of State died he was referred to as the King by several papers.

The reference in Elective_monarchy does not clear up the matter. Encyclopaedia Brittanica, Columbia Encyclopaedia and the UK Foreign Office all list Samoa as a Constitutional Monarchy. The CIA fact book lists it as a parliamentary democracy. The way the head of state is treated and referred to here in Samoa, and the UK Foreign Office's links with the Commonwealth, both support that it is a Constitutional Monarchy.

Can anyone shed any more light on this subject? If not, I think we should change it from Parliamentary Democracy to Constitutional Monarchy. --CloudSurfer 19:18, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

The Samoan constitution post-Malietoa Tanumafili II is more like that of Fiji, where the head of state is selected from a select group (in Fiji the former Great Council of Chiefs, who almost always have elected a Fijian chief as head of state). This is much the same as Samoa. In my view, Samoa is a Parliamentary republic. Further, a recent email from the Samoan government (see Talk:O le Ao o le Malo) confirms that the new office is a ceremonial president. --Lholden 22:25, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
I should add that the two terms are not mutually incompatible. Samoa could reasonably be called a parliamentary democracy whether it's a republic or a monarchy; this is probably a good fudge term for this uniquely ambiguous case. --Jfruh (talk) 00:22, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
Very interesting email from Deborah Mauinatu. I have to say though that he is treated more like a monarch than a president but this may simple relate to him being such a high chief. I presume he is also entitled to be called His Highness. I have NEVER heard the word president used in relation to the Head of State.
I am wondering if it is clearly set out in the constitution. Copies of this are in the library and I might go and have a look at it. Another avenue would be to ask the Head of State himself. He is very knowledgeable and having also served as a PM in the past he would well and truly understand the intricacies of the question. Of course he may be too close to the issue to answer the question independently. In the meantime, I prefer Jfruh's fudge suggestion of Parliamentary Democracy. --CloudSurfer 04:11, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
Well, it was a lower case "p". I think the constitution itself uses the term "Head of state" - but I'll live with the fudge term "parliamentary democracy", as Samoa clearly is. --Lholden 04:28, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
An anonymous user has again put in republic. I do not feel strongly enough about it to change it back for the moment. I will try to find out more and advise accordingly. --CloudSurfer 04:36, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
I have just recalled something. A few years ago the incoming Australian High Commissioner referred to the PM as the President. This caused Tuila'epa to rebuke him by telling him that Samoa was not a republic and there was no president. Sadly, I cannot recall what form of governement the PM called Samoa. I am now starting to get very curious as to exactly what is the correct answer. --CloudSurfer 05:45, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

I exchanged on word "republic" and will do so again and again because User:Therequiembellishere finally answered on this question in articles Talk:Monarchy and Talk:O le Ao o le Malo using the answer of Samoan government press secretary. --User:212.98.173.133 11:18, 24 July 2007

Well, it is just possible that she is wrong. But I won't get into an edit war without substantiation and I accept that the email from the press secretary is the current best information. It jars that His Highness, the Head of State, Afioga Tuiatua Tupua Tamasese Efi as he is referred to on the official government site, is a ceremonial president. The Head of State is treated here as a monarch, not as a president. Certainly the previous one was and there is every indication the current one is being similarly treated. I will follow this up and provide the answer I obtain, preferably as a citable document. CloudSurfer 21:37, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
I guess it boils down to how you define a monarch, doesn't it? Since the current head of state is elected by the parliament and serves for a set term, that doesn't seem very monarchal to me, even if Samoa has a unique term for the office that isn't "president." The degree of reverence applied to the office holder, or the honoriffic titles people use to refer to him, strike me as irrelevant -- I'm pretty sure that the President of the US was referred to as "his highness" during George Washington's terms... --Jfruh (talk) 23:01, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

If you don't believe to User:Therequiembellishere and Press Secretary of the Government of Samoa, you can to request direct to own Tupua Tamasese Tupuola Tufuga Efi with one question : "IS SAMOA A REPUBLIC OR MONARCHY?". Kabaka (king) of Buganda Sir Edward Mutebi Mutesa II was the president of Uganda from October 9th 1963 to March 2nd 1966. But from the fact of presidency of Edward Mutebi Mutesa II The Republic of Uganda not became a kingdom. Last Bulgarian tsar Simeon II Sakskoburggotski, who reign in 1943-1946 before Bulgaria was proclaim a Republic, became a Prime minister of Bulgaria in 2001 ('til 2005). But after that Bulgaria not returned to monarchy. I think that His Highness is just trible title of Tupua Tamasese Tupuola Tufuga Efi. --User:212.98.173.133 02:47 27 July 2007.

This afternoon I spoke with Papali'i Uale, the head of the Press Secretariat. He remembered the original email and it was he who gave the answer of "ceremonial president". We discussed the issue and the fact that various governements around the world and the editors on Wikipedia have different opinions on the status of the Head of State and the type of government of Samoa. He said he would take it up with the Prime Minister and obtain a definitive answer, either from the Prime Minister or possibly from the Attorney General. I suggested that putting the answer on the government website would make it clear to the world as to these questions. Stand by for more news on this.
In terms of the title "His Highness", "tribal" titles here in Samoa are the names that various people are given which are added to the front of their birth name. (However, names in Samoa are much more fluid than in the west. There are not the strict rules associated with family names and given names.) These titles are held by families and bestowed on family members deemed worthy of them. The same title may be given to more than one living person. The honorific of "His Highness" comes with the position of being Head of State. It is not a "tribal" title. --CloudSurfer 01:51, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Thank you! I wait final answer from Samoan officials with great impatience.--User:212.98.173.133 08:14 27 July 2007.

I have yet to hear back on this but in the meantime I have read part of the Constitution.[2] The Constitution states, "The executive power of Samoa shall vest in the Head of State and shall be exercised by him under the provisions of this Constitution." The executive powers vested in the Head of State are considerable and would argue against him being a ceremonial president. On the other hand, anyone may become the Head of State and so it does not appear to be an aristocratic election although in practical terms it of course is. It thus appears that it is not an elected monarchy. --CloudSurfer 00:43, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

And now you agree, that Samoa is a Republic? :) --User:212.98.173.133 14:24 2 August 2007.

Well, we have yet to hear back from the powers here so the jury is in some ways still out. The system here is unusual. Constitutionally, the position of Head of State is open to anyone. Practically, the chosen person will come from one of the aristocratic families here and will be the current head of that family. The current Head of State was elected unopposed as you may know. Despite all the hype before the election about the possibility of anyone getting the job, his name was the only one put up. Once elected he, and it will be along time before it is a she, was given the title, "His Highness". Reading the constitution reminds me of this country's roots as a British Commonwealth nation and the constitution is framed based on the British Westminster system. If the only choices are monarchy or republic then Samoa is constitutionally a republic and practically an elected monarchy. In time, it may become a true republic. It may even become a true democracy. At present it is still firmly rooted in its "tribal" past on both of these matters. I still prefer Parliamentary Democracy and await a statement by the Government to clear this up. --CloudSurfer 04:24, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

I think, that Samoa is aristocratic Republic de facto. Republics in names as well as Democratic People's Republic of Korea, Syrian Arab Republic, Azerbaijan, Democratic Republic of Congo, Togolese Republic have more rights to be called as monarchies than Samoa. --User:212.98.173.133 05:44 08.08.2007 (UTC)

Wow, I didn't realise that this was going on. I don't think that the title "His Highness" makes him a monarch. the President of the Philippines is known as "Her Excellency" and is firmly a president. Therequiembellishere 16:42, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Those eligible for Parliament

The article currently states: "Universal suffrage was extended in 1990, but only chiefs (matai) may stand for election to the Samoan seats." The Constitution of Samoa states that:

45. Qualifications for membership-(1) Any person shall be qualified to be elected as a Member of Parliament who -

(a) Is a citizen of Samoa; and

(b) Is not disqualified under any provisions of this Constitution or of any Act.

At preset it would be virtually impossible for a non matai to be elected since people in general vote for the person they are told to vote for by the hierarchy of their village and this will of course be nominated as a matai. However, there is no legal impediment to a non matai being elected. It would appear that the article statement needs to be modified. --CloudSurfer 00:25, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rename and expansion

Description 
I propose to expand the now-inactive Wikipedia:WikiProject American Samoa into Wikipedia:WikiProject Samoa to be more inclusive of both Samoas and all Samoan-topics. Including the independent nation, with three times the population, would improve (and perhaps save) the existing Project. Not to mention the large Samoan diaspora, Los Angeles being the largest Samoan city, as well as notables who have come from the culture, like The Rock, Sosene Anesi...
Interested Wikipedians (please add your name)
  1. Chris 04:00, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
Comments

You could request that the project change its scope, and, if whatever response you got was affirmative and sufficient, change the existing project page, templates, blah blah blah. At that point, you could start tagging the articles of the new broader scope and try to get members that way. Listing it on the Community Portal would probably work too. But you really should get the approval of the project itself before making such changes. Of course, if others were to join the project and agree to the changes, no one could argue that. John Carter 22:12, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Happy to be involved if this gets off the ground. By the way, Auckland claims to be the largest Samoan city. I wonder which is in reality. --CloudSurfer 04:45, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
That's a good question, I wonder if there is a Samoan diaspora article? Chris 06:13, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
There's just a little stub at Samoan American. Where could we get stats? Chris 06:15, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
I also found Category:Samoan New Zealanders and Category:Samoan Americans Chris 06:27, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
I have given you the wrong information. Auckland claims to be largest Polynesian city and it includes 13% of its population (1.3M) as Pacific Islanders, including Samoans. 12% are Maori. I don't know the breakdowns and I have no idea of the Samoan population of LA. However, most in LA would come from Am Samoa which now has a pop of 65K while most in Auckland would come from Samoa which now has a pop of 220K. Anyway, interesting stuff. A diaspora article would be interesting. There are other models for this listed in diaspora. --CloudSurfer 07:06, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
The NZ Statistics site lists a total of 115,017 Samoans from the 2001 census. I can't find a city breakdown however I think a disproportionately high number live in Auckland. --CloudSurfer 07:30, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Samoan Scouting

Can someone help render Be Prepared, the Scout Motto, into Samoan? Thanks! Chris 06:13, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] User sm, User smo

Are there no templates like {{User sm}}, {{User smo}}, {{User smo-3}}? ... It's not for me ;-) --Roland2 07:58, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

I have looked at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedians_by_language . It would not appear that there are. :( Chris 02:43, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
Be easy enough to create. Just copy the french ones from in {{User fr}} {{User fr-1}} {{User fr-2}} {{User fr-3}} and replace any instances of "fr" with "sm" - Finally, replace the French language "I speaky teh frankika" with Samoan-language assertions of fluency in Samoan. MrZaiustalk 07:25, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Republic?

What's up with the recent edits asserting that Samoa is a republic? MrZaiustalk 07:21, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Wake Up! Samoa is a Republic direct after the death of Malietoa Tanumafili II on May, 11th, 2007, according to a Constitution of Samoa. —Preceding unsigned comment added by CrazyRepublican (talk • contribs) 11:05, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Again, please explain. I saw your edit summary/understand your assertion, but it'd be nice to have it backed up. There's no explicit reference to "republic" in their constitution. Got a second source or a clear quote to back up your statement? MrZaiustalk 08:38, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes! I didn't found the word "Republic" in Samoan Constitution too. May be Samoan language haven't word "Republic" at all. But articles 18 and 45 of Samoan Constitution exactly say (without using the word "Republic"): "Samoa is a Republic" ( Every Samoan citizen can be elected to parliament; every parliament member can be elected on the office of the head of state (president)). If you don't trust to Samoan Constitution, you can to request to Samoan Parliament and even to own O le Ao O le Malo and propose to them to declare Samoa the Republic (to endorse) once more (with using the word "republic"). That's all. And it have not sence to discuss over this issue further, because all is evidently! Learn Samoan Constitution! [3] CrazyRepublican 19:57, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Eradication

"If the rhinoceros beetle in Samoa were eradicated, Samoa could produce in excess of 40,000 metric tons of copra."

This statement sounds like someone wants to get rid of them beetles, to me. It's like saying if prairie dogs didn't exist, ranchers could produce x more number of beef in the U.S. 216.187.227.49 (talk) 18:50, 21 January 2008 (UTC)