Talk:Samir Kuntar

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http://www.samirkuntar.org the article on wikipedia is very biased and pro-israeli. -- unsigned contribution by anonymous IP 194.126.24.3 19:25, 21 July 2006

That site is the official family site. If they admitted that he had done something wrong (rather than praising him to the skies without ever mentioning any details of his crimes), then non-Hezbollah-supporters might be more impressed. AnonMoos 22:37, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
that site includes another source of the end of the "Nasser" operation...should it be included for records sake? it doesn't jive much with the israeli accounting.Fcyoss 16:44, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] POV

I came here looking for something informative and balanced. You know, the sort of thing we all come to expect from Wikipedia.

This comes across as propaganda. It doesn't seem very encyclopedic at all.

Steve Lowther 05:54, 25 July 2006 (UTC)


What exactly did you expect? To hear that he is a fredom fighter or an innocent citizen that Israel kidnapped in a cross-border infltration into Lebanon? Well he is not. He murdered a family and this is described in an NPOV fashion. If you have good WP:RS sources saying otherwise, bring them. Zeq 06:17, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Umm...No actually I just expected what I said; "informative and balanced" rather than "propaganda". I think this is particularly important with an article that is crucial to a current event. I see that the article is now markedly improved.

Incidentally, I don't have any particular POV here, other than a desire to see a better standard being applied to articles related to current events.

Steve Lowther 23:03, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't believe the following should be written in an article about Kuntar:{Inspired by the prisoner swap Hamas vowed, a few days later, that they would also abduct Israeli soldiers to secure the release of Palestinian prisoners. Hassan Nasrallah simultaneously told his supporters that Hezbollah would continue to kidnap Israelis until "not a single prisoner" remained inside Israeli jails.}

Maybe the part about Nasrallah is a little bit more welcomed(but it's a detail anyway) but the part about Hamas is not directly related to the Kuntar issue. that's why i chose to make a little change, if someone still insists on the paragraph i deleted you can paste it back in the article. But I think my version would be a little better.--Six 7 8 20:34, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bias

I have tried to reword a few of the paragraphs to make them less emotional and biased. By focusing on the graphic descriptions of the murder of the daughter and constantly referring to her age, the article becomes too emotional. Wikipedia is supposed to report facts, not take sides in conflicts.

I have also added a paragraph stating that many people believe he is innocent of the murders and consider him a political prisoner. I personally don't believe that, but it is important to add this information to understand why Hizbollah wants him set free.

I understand that people are emotional about such an issue, and I have read what the surviving wife and mother wrote about the experience, which was undoubtedly awful. We still need to tone those aspects down in an encyclopedic article.

Innocent? Ha-ha-ha! Allek "political prisoner". What was he doing in Nahariya then? Taking a tour in the town? Sipping caffé latte in Sderot ha'Gaaton? Such an idiocy has no place on Wikipedia; Wikipedia is not Al-Manar, to remind you. Islamists openly take pride in killing infidels, be it in Iraq, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Thailand or Israel. They are praised for it. They even videotape it. Everybody knows it. He is guilty, he was caught in action, and he was convicted. Israel does not have interest in jailing uninvolved people, as can clearly be seen from the case with a shepherd boy from recent Baalbek raid. Aleverde.
Those people who consider him innocent only do so out of ethnic/political/religious/racial pride. There are times when loyalty to your own people and your own family is commendable, but not when it is at the expense of an objective, higher level of justice. It's just sad to imagine how some people can apologize for this man's actions, simply because of "Hizbollah Pride". -- Camille


for camille: you are talking non sence, because Samir Kuntar was a communist, not an islamist. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.224.194.149 (talk) 15:32, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

I want to give a quick overview about Samir Kuntar. Samir Kuntar in 1979 broke into an apartment of the Haran family, there he took hostage the father Danny and his 4 year old daughter Einat. Meanwhile in the apartment Danny's wife, Smadar, and their other daughter, 2-year old, Yael, managed to hide in a crawl space. Kuntar took Danny and Einat to the beach where he murdered them both in cold blood. Danny was drowned and Einat was beaten to death. Meanwhile in the apartment Smadar covered little Yael's mouth in order to prevent her from crying and giving out their location, Yael accidentally suffocated to death.

Now I will give a quick overview about myself. My name is Ahmed Rassas, I am a Lebanese, I support Lebanon completely, but i dont agree with Israel's potential future release of Samir Kuntar. Even though the zionists commit crimes too, Samir Kuntar is still a murderer, he kidnapped a father and his four year old daughter, and shot the father in front of the daughter and then drowned him in the sea, and forced the 4-year old to watch the whole event. Moments later he took the 4 year old and stomped her and beat her death. Read this website: http://samirkuntar.net Israel should never release Samir Kantar. Especially this piece is something i find shocking:

"According to Smadar Haran, her last memories of Danny and Einat, that day, were when they were being led away at gun point by Kuntar. She could hear from her closet space Danny telling Einat, "Don't be scared, my baby, it will be alright" and Einat replied to him in her little voice, "Dad, where is Mommy? I want Mommy." Smadar's last memory of her 2-year-old daughter, Yael, was when her little daughter was taken to the apartment hiding space. Right before Yael had her mouth covered by her mother, she asked her mother "Where is my little pacifier." There was no time to search for the pacifier. Minutes later Smadar covered Yael's mouth to keep her from revealing the hiding space. Smadar soon felt her daughter's tiny tongue licks and lip sucking on the palm of her hand. She didn't know what to make of it at first but hours later was told by doctors and paramedics that the reason Yael was licking her palm while she covered her mouth was because she was gasping for air.

A Sad Gruesome Reality

After drowning Danny in the sea in front of little Einat, Kuntar, the brave Lebanese freedom fighter, then turned his attention towards the frightened little 4-year old. He took his rifle and then swung it across the little toddler's head, knocking her to the ground. As little Einat was knocked to the ground, she was screaming and crying hysterically "mommy daddy help me," while thrashing her little legs around in the sand. But unfortunately Einat was alone, and no one was there to save her. Kuntar then dragged the little toddler a couple of feet to the closest rock he could find, this was while she was begging him not to hurt her. Kuntar, then laid her head down on a rock, with the intention of crushing it with the butt of his rifle. Einat, instinctively covered her head with her little arms, Kuntar struggled with the little toddler until he finally managed to clear her arms out of the way so that he could aim for her head. Once her arms were out of the way, Kuntar proceeded on beating her on the head over and over with the butt of his rifle, and repeatedly stomping on her little body as hard as he could as well, until blood rushed out of her ears and mouth, and her little cries faded away as she was knocked into unconsciousness'. Then, to ensure she was dead, Kuntar continued on beating her over the head, as hard as he could, several more times until her skull was crushed and she was dead."

And lets not forget, the release of Kuntar wasn't Hizbollah's main objective behind their July 12 kidnapping operation of the two Israeli soldiers, but instead, Kuntar was their only objective. small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by AhmedRassas (talk • contribs) 03:47, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Just a note

I've just created Lebanese prisoners held by Israel, would appreciate if anybody had information on the other names involved. Sherurcij (Speaker for the Dead) 18:44, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Name

The name is best written in english as SAMEER Quntar. This is the best approximation to the Arabic sound. I know that the name "Samir Kuntar" is circulating in the net, but we need to adhere to the name that closely resembles the Arabic one. --Thameen 09:02, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually Samiir or Samīr would be an accurate scholarly transcription of the classical Arabic pronunciation of his name, while "Sameer" would be something of a crude journalistic equivalent (based on English-specific spelling conventions only), so it's hard to say how Sameer is more "correct". If "Samir" is much more commonly found in third-party writing (in addition to the official family website), that's what should be used here... AnonMoos 12:48, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Lebanon Plan

this seems factually incorrect. I dont think Kuntar was ever explicitly names in UN-Siniora plan, which only mentioned "Lebanese prisoners". Hezbollah certainly interprets this to include Kuntar, but he was not named inb the agreement, as this article implies. See the wikipedia article on the Siniora Plan Jhcarter 14:26, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Samir Kuntar

I took the liberty of reverting your revert, per WP:WTA, which says to generally avoid words like 'terrorist' - although some states regard him as a terrorist, others do not, and although I personally think he is, it's not really Wikipedia's place to assign labels to people. Feel free to insert who sees him as a terrorist, and please be assured I'm not pro-anyone - I'm editing from Dartmouth, not Haifa or Lebanon! Thanks, HawkerTyphoon 11:05, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your note. I would only say in reply that all Wikipedia does is assign labels to people. Oh, and I've no problem at all with your editing from Haifa or Lebanon. On the contrary. Cheers. IronDuke 03:06, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
this is like a bad joke the way the page is like right now - look up the definition of the word "terrorism" - terrorism - the calculated use of violence (or threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature;
i cannot, for the life of me, see how entering a house and killing a family is not terrorism - even if they are considered legitimate targets by some - it just means that those "some" believe that it's ok to act with terrorism against random civillians.. it doesn't mean the act itself is not a terrorist act.
Jaakobou 14:22, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

The present compromise -- "was widely viewed as a terrorist act" with a list of specific references -- seems to be basically satisfactory to most editors of this article at this time... AnonMoos 16:19, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

AnonMoos, i think it's a sad joke - maybe i should go in to the articles about the Irgun and the Lehi and change them to be "falsly accused to be terrorist by the british and arabs only" ??? - maybe we should start lying like the arab media that says 9/11 and pearl harbor were zionists and US conspiracy acts so that the US can go into the oil buisness?! - there's a clear definition to the word "terrorist" and samir kuntar fits it perfectly and he even admitted to his acts with pride.. it doesn't matter if the targets are considered legitimate.. playing these "He participated in what was widely viewed as a terrorist attack" games puts us at serious risk of losing credibility when it's more than obvious that it was a terror attack... not a freedom fighting action.. it was done, i'll remind you all before israel went into lebanon - and this guy was a secular druze who never lived in what is dubbed as "occupied territories" which is a sad joke in itself since 4 arab countries attacked israel... but in any event - kuntar was a terrorist. no doubt - and if you want to call him "resistance jihad" warrior - that would still mean terrorist.
Jaakobou 01:44, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
Jaakobou, you are correct, but the current version is sourced and I think everyone can see that he was a terrorist. It is better for wikpedia not to say "was a terrorist" but show sources that he was a terrorist. atleast as long as the category exists, it's also obvious. if the category disappears, then it should change to "is a terrorist" like you say. Amoruso 02:18, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Lebanon Plan

Following Step 5, Hezbollah should not exist. So why is it mentioned in step 6? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.69.130.164 (talk) 23:20, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] This really proves how scummy Hezbollah is, their "hero" is a convicted baby-killer

These people have no morals. Hezis=Nazis . Different names, different times, same views & goals —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.108.109.208 (talk) 23:26, 1 June 2008 (UTC)