Talk:Sali Berisha

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Changed "Mr." to "Dr." Rmpfu89 18:04, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

There is something contradicting in this article, how can one be an atheist and a Muslim at the same time. It is suggested in this article. [User:Nicklaarakkers] Friday 16 February 2007 19:57 (CET)

Berisha is a declared Atheist just like roughly 80% of Albanian politicians. Some people make the mistake of assigning a religion to them by analyzing their names and surnames. But this is not the case anymore. Names in Albania don't show a person's religion, not for at least the last 50 years. Albania is a country of 60-75% Atheists/Agnostics. Everyone is by default considered an Atheist unless he has explicitly declared himself a Muslim or a Christian (where the Orthodox Christians have the majority of believers and depending on the polls they are followed either by Catholics, either by Muslims). Being religious in Albania is the exception, not the norm. This stands a bit as clarification for those reverting the religion field in the article. -- Dimror 14:05, 18 March 2007 (UTC)


This sentence:

He somewhat affronted Ramiz Alia, the country's Communist leader, with such a need in a tense meeting Alia had with intellectuals in the middle of that year

is confusing. Maybe the phrase with such a need migrated there from somewhere else? I'm not sure the sentence is necessary, since the next sentence doesn't explain the affront or talk about its consequences.

-- Lucy Kemnitzer

[edit] Religion

Well of course he declared Atheism in the 1960’s because you could not be a communist and a believe in God in fact during communist rule of our country You were not even allowed to mention the word GOD or you’ll be imprisoned or executed, Sali Berisha along with many other politicians in 1992 declared their faiths in God some declared them self’s as Muslims some as Catholics some as Orthodox and a small number declared them self’s agnostic (people who believe in God but not in a religion) and others remained Atheists and Sali Berisha Declared him self a Muslim because he was born one, this does not mean he practices but that is what he calls him self, Just like Fatos Nanon declared him self an Orthodox.

But YES I do agree in one thing and one thing only that you cant tell if an Albanian is Muslim or Christian by his name because Albanians Muslim & Christian have always kept their Albanian names mainly their second names

Albania in the 90’s was a very non-religious and non-practicing country but since the 90’ things have changed dramatically and Religion has swarmed back into our people especially after the War in Kosova. As by the figures of the census and Albanian research teams taken in 2005 & 2006 show that religion remains like this in Albania. around 71% - 75% Muslims over 65% of Them Practice in some what (fasting praying Fridays…etc or full practice) this is mainly because of the events in Kosova during t late 90’s and like in Bosnia and Kosova Islam blew up extremely after the war and the rest only call them self’s Muslims because they were born in a Muslim family. Orthodox 15% - 20% of Albania most of which practice Catholicism is around 10% of Albania and most of which practice Approximately 2% other unspecified beliefs [User:Gon4z] Friday 23 March 2007 18:10 (CET)

I think you're not in current of the situation and except the fact that you're using a century old data (that weren't real statistiscs even at the time, but just estimates) you are applying wishful thinking here. Let alone that it shows you don't live in Albania to witness the situation firsthand. But for an international version of it take a look at the US State Department Statistics [1] giving a 60-75% non-religious population. You are just lying about censuses. Four of them have been carried out from 92 and on, and the three of them show Orthodox Christians as first religious grouping, then either Catholics, either Muslims, depending on the census, then "others".
Staying on topic, Berisha has never declared himself a muslim, never attended religious services, and that keeps him an atheist as he has declared several times. You'll have to live with the fact that 70% of Albanians are Atheists/Agnostics. It doesn't depend one me and it doesn't depend on you. People have been born into Atheism for three generations. What do you expect. And no, you can't derive the religion of someone by the name. This is just preposterous. Please be fair! --Dimror 23:41, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Hummm there is no such thing as exact data and the data in the 1930’s said that 60% Muslim 25% orthodox and 15% Catholic and it was pretty correct. Where I live it is not relevant to the facts I’am a person that spend 6 months of my year in Albania and Kosova so I would know, I think it is you who is applying wish full thinking here, I am presenting the real life I can see you have a sort of ISLAMOFOBIA and do not wish to present the Albanians as a Islamic people which they are by a majority even if Islam might not be that strong in Albania you would not have to look far Kosova Macedonia Montenegro Serbia Albanians living in those lands are over 95% Muslims but what ever I do not wish to continue fighting with you because it is pointless

Berisha is a Muslim yes he does not attend religious services and is most likely not a prcticer but he did declare him self a Muslim and a person that believes in God [User:Gon4z] Saturday 24 March 2007 03:32 (CET)

Did you read the US report? What does statistics from Kosova and FYROM have to do with Albania proper? And now I am islamofobic, too?! Maybe I should join your game and call you atheistofobic... Pretty childish don't you think. And what does it mean "not to be a practicer" Muslim? One either is a Muslim, either is not. And Berisha, like pretty much all of the politicians in Albania, is a declared atheist (except for the President, Mr. Moisiu that is an Orthodox Christian and some few members of the Parlament that are declared Muslims and Catholics). Why do you percieve the fact that people in Albania are Atheists, as islamofobia? That's funny actually. Unless you provide specific data for Berisha being a Muslim, he remains an Atheist as he has publicly declared quite a few times, especially when he was a President. You seem to generally apply some vague criteria for someone being a Muslim because maybe some of his grand-grand-grandfathers may have been such. Please be serious and stop reverting the article.--Dimror 09:01, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Today with the 21st of April was prophets Muhammed birthday and if you saw the concert that was made to honor him and was broad cast live in Albania national TV (TVSH) it was a 4 hours long program and SALI BERISHA him self gave a 35 minute speech about the prophet where he him self stated that he is a believer of GOD and of ISLAM so all the crap you have argued with me about just smacked you in the face at least 5 million Albanians world wide saw that today so you would not mind changing his religion to Islam now and stop denying the facts about his personal life.

are you high buddy? no such thing on tv. why make up such lie? strange. it looks like you must be serb. only serbs say this bullshit everyday and have started believing it, but that's funny, why do you do that. is it national sport there? even greeks are more civilized

Man you must be a SERB you live in denial do you ever watch Albanian TV or just Serbian it was on today’s from 15:00 - 18:30 UK time so in Albania it was something like from 16:00 - 19:30 and it was on national TV the most watched Albanian channel (TVSH) Sali Berisha was sitting on the front row just wait a couple of day it will be up in YOU TUBE IN NO TIME and then you will change that because if you don’t I will report you for false miss information


To make it clear: In the 1960s religion was banned in Albania, so everyone was forced to become an atheist. This does not mean to they were true atheist. They became atheist in name becase they were afraid of persecution. My father, working for the foreign department of the Netherlands visited Albania in 1997. To his account most Albanians are religious people, but not very devote. They don't visit Churches or Mosques very often. So most of the Albanians are non-practising. I know Sali Berisha is a Muslim - a Sunni. A have read this several times (you can't deny it, he said it on National Television, that's evidence). Maybe Berisha never visited a mosque, but that doesn't mean he is not religious. It is to simple to think when one doesn't worship in a mosque or church is not religious. I personally doubt that Berisha is a very religious man, and that he is Muslim only because of political reasons (the Democratic Party is supported by Sunni's, see: "The Albanians, A Modern History", by Miranda Vickers (1997)). As for Fatos Nano, he declared hismself an Orthodox in 1997, probably also because of political reasons (the Socialist Party is supported by the Orthodox Christians in the south, often called "the Greeks" in Albania [despite the fact they are ethnic Albanians]). Despite all the efforts of the atheist Communist government, most Albanians are still part of a religion. User:Nicklaarakkers Friday 27 April 2007 18:20 (CET)

That's a bit wishful thinking. The idea is that historically no one cared about religion here in Albania cause it's seen as something foreign conflincting with our national culture, religion has always been the culture of the invader and trying to remove the original heritage. If people would've been religious they'd oppose the destruction of religious buildings. It's because noone cared about religion that thosethings happened. Why didnt those things happen in other countries. You can read Edith Durham for an account of historical Albanian irreligiousness. Of course there have been a lot of people who have believed and some that still does and I think orthodox christians are now the first religion here, because in two polls here they go up to 12-16% of population but about 70% are non-religious, either atheists either deists or agnostics. Another thing is that you can't call people muslims just because his granfathers may have been theoretical muslims. And one either is muslim either isn't, to be "non-practicant" muslim doesn't make any sense. If you drink alcohol and eat pork and don't go to mosque than what muslim are you? Another thing is that Nano and Berisha are stench communists, they've been elected by the communist president to form two "plural" parties and I don't think they'll identify with a religion after being communists for a whole life. People make mistake to relate them with their family's supposed religion. But in a country where three generations have been born into atheism, these things seem humorous when told by foreigners. anyway, cheers
A muslim that eat pork and drink alcohol is probably not very devote, however one can still call himself a muslim. "Non-practicant" muslims do exist, just as non-practicant Christians. For example, most Christians in the Netherlands - that's where I live - are non-practising. I'm a Catholic - by the way, I belong to the minority of practising Catholics - and I know Dutch Catholics who still call themself Catholics but never go to church. Now there this very popular saying in Albania, that "Albanism is the religion of tha Albanians". This is been said by a Roman Catholic Albanian nationalist and Hoxha agreed with it completely. However I disagree with you that three generations of official atheism makes people religious indifferent. This is not true, mostly the opposite happens. The policy of Hoxha harmed religion very badly, but didn't destroy it. And what about "another thing is that Nano and Berisha are staunch communists." Being a communist, marxist or socialist doesnt mean someone can not be religious. I'm a leftist socialist, I vote on the Socialist Party (former Maoist Party) in my country, and a lot of people on the list of the Socialist Party are Christian. Last but not least, being a foreigner doesn't mean i don't know alot of Albania. I have been interested in the country for over years. I have some good books about Albania in my private collection.

I think a got the truth about his religion. He was born a Muslim, but during communism people couldn't make their religious beliefs public. Later on he said that he believed in God and respected all religions by celebrating both Muslim and Christian holidays, however he does not go to religious places (such as church). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.190.92.176 (talk) 00:09, 16 April 2008 (UTC)