Talk:Salamander letter

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[edit] More info on Hoffman stuff

My memory is that one of the current members of the presidency of the seventy David E. Sorenson was instrumental in exposing the fraud. He was planning on purchasing some of the letters and donating them to the church; however, he had hired investigators and experts to verify the authenticity before laying down the cash, and the findings of these professionals are what began the downturn. I have been trying to find some references but only these: [1] [2]. Trödel|talk 18:52, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I wonder why the controversal part of the salamander letter is left out of this page: The letter was beleved by church leaders and was suppressed. unsigned by User:71.108.192.117

(anon 16:41, 13 May 2005 (UTC)) I will second that concern. I came to the article to find out what it was about the letter that made church leaders believe it. Were there oral legends of a white salamander? unsigned by User:205.155.71.178

Good question, IP addresses. It was believed by church leaders because the handwriting was accurate, and it was deemed a "real" copy of an early letter [3]. Hoffman was a master forger, and experts believed his work was authentic. In addition, as stated in the article, the document discussed a "magical world view." [4] At the time in Mormon studies, scholars were showing parallels between Mormonism and astrology, freemasonry and more. So it was timely to surface. The idea that Smith recieved the plates on the equinox was combined by Hoffman with other ideas, such as a notice in a local paper by the Smith family stating that Alvin's grave had not been disturbed, contrary to popular belief, (the notice had no other context in any avaialable writings), with a Magick belief about fire-resistent salamanders [5], so hoffman tied the three of these together. No Mormon legends of Salamanders nor mentions in other historical documents. It was generally believed the same as other strange ideas he introduced into culture ranging from his forgery of "Oath of a Freeman" written on the Mayflower, to oddities he introduced into the lives of Emily Dickinson, Mark Twain and Abraham Lincoln, by forging things in their names. Each time, he tried to make the authors or topics appear in negative light. He always seemed to have an axe to grind. So that's the end of the story. A good read is Salamander: The Story of the Mormon Forgery Murders by Allen Dale Roberts and Linda Sillitoe.

Incidentally, other forgeries of his including the Josesph Smith III succession letter, and the Anthon transcript are still believed by many both within and without the church today. He was a skillful forger, seeking to discredit the LDS Church, by his own admission. -Visorstuff 17:53, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

I do not believe that church leaders covered this up. Sure, if you completely ignore the fact that they published the letter in Church News, and President Hinckley himself addressed it in the Ensign magazine (see references section), you might have a case. From his tone, I would disagree that he even believed in it. RTA, it's very informative. Anyway, to say that it was "believed by church leaders and ... suppressed" is not true at all. If anything, the Church handled this directly and with remarkable objectivity and straightforwardness for something that could have otherwise been detrimental. If anything, it confirms my belief in the the Brethren's right and very real ability to have inspiration in directing the affairs of the Kingdom. --Bruce 22:14, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Okay, my comment was a bit emotive, but my opinions stand, and my facts (sourced facts, mind you) have accumulated. Unless some reasonable objections (with credible sources) are presented soon, I will happily rewrite that section from scratch. President Hinckley did not necessarily believe the letter was genuine, as evidenced by a talk of his that I added at the bottom of the page. He in fact questioned it openly (Ibid.). The current tone is totally misleading. That he planned to purchase it himself is also dubious (read: unsourced). Nor is FARMS a part of the Church. It's been a year and a half now. None of the more disputed items are sourced at all, and I have found enough evidence that contradicts its current language to justify the change. Bruce 05:44, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV concerns

The final paragraph of the "Lasting effects" section seems a little, well, POV-ish. (It's a vast improvement on what was here before, however.) I realize that the folk-magic of western New York in the 1820's is still part-and-parcel of the non-supernatural explanations of the origins of the BoM, but the long-term effect of the Salamander letter is more that it made people think along those lines than anything else. It is well supported from documents not forged by Hoffman. I note that a pro-Smith source such as Bushman (p. 50) has no trouble in seeing magical folklore as part of Smith's background. John Jenkins 02:40, 12 March 2007 (UTC)