Talk:Saints Cyril and Methodius Day

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Contents 1 Rationale for this article 2 Translations 3 Russia 4 Republic of Macedonia 5 About the "Short passional of Constantine-Cyril" 6 February 14

[edit] Rationale for this article

I've been bold and merged and redirected Nedko's article to here. It is the feast day of the two saints which is celebrated as a public holiday, and it makes the most sense to have a single article about the feast day, and to mention here its manifestations in different countries. Evertype 14:57, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

I still think that they should be two separate articles, because of disagreement in the role of the saints in the culture. Bulgaria does not officially recognize macedonian language and thus culture, while officially reconizes macedonian state. The day is celebrated as national holiday, i.e. it is very significant for bulgarians. Having common article that mentions "macedonian culture", thus undervalues the significance for bulgarian citizens and provides inexact interpretation. While this information can be clearly stated in this article, it is more appropirante to have separate articles (at least for Macodonian celebration and Bulgarian celebraion), where each side point of view will be stated. Nedko 12:11, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Meaning of the holiday is different at least in Macedonia and Bulgaria. Nedko 12:43, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, not everyone agrees on the meaning of the holiday celebrated on 25 December, but it's still the same holiday. I'm convinced that both the Bulgarian and Macedonian celebrations, whether different or the same, on the one page (which is the feast day of the two Saints) is the most helpful thing for users of the Wikipedia. I think your suggestion that having Macedonian and Bulgarian commemorations on the same page "devalues" the Bulgarian information is not correct. Evertype 14:04, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Merging the meaning of Macedonian culture and Bulgarian culture clearly oposes Bulgaria official point of view, because Bulgaria officially denies exisiting of separate macedonian language and culture as separate ones. Nedko 14:58, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

The article is about the feast day of Saints Cyril and Methodius, which is celebrated in two countries. This article explains clearly how each country does so. Evertype 17:26, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

If I understood you right, on 25th December people celebrate birth of Jesus, and I'd agree that this is the same holiday. However Macedonian culture is not same as Bulgarian culture, by the opinion of both sides. For Bulgaria this is same thing and the term "macedonian culture" is false. For Macedonia, these are two separate things. This is why I think that there are two meanings. Nedko 15:10, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

That's my point. Some people celebrate 25 December, but as a winter festival, not having anything to do with Jesus. 24 May is celebrated in Bulgaria and in Macedonia, and if the two countries differ somewhat, it is still Cyril and Methodius and their activities which are the inspiration for the holiday. Evertype 17:26, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

So all holidays in 25th December sould me merger into one article? Nedko 18:16, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

So the holiday in question here is the feast of Saints Cyril and Methodius, celebrated in Bulgaria and Macedonia under other secular names. Therefore the redirect is correct, and this is where the article should be. Evertype 18:53, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

You are still missing the point that from Bulgarian officials point of view this is different holiday.Nedko 19:15, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Translations

Писменност can mean 'literature' but also 'script'. I think the celebration is really of the script, not of litrature in general. Are the translations on the article page correct? Evertype 14:58, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

While I agree that 'script' is more exact translation, http://www.parliament.bg/?page=history&lng=en&hid=11 clearly states that 'literature' should be used, at least for the bulgarian holiday. Nedko 11:56, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree with you and have made that change to both translations. Evertype 17:23, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Russia

Is it celebrated in Russia (public holiday or not)? Evertype 15:07, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

I think it is celebrated as church/religious holiday. http://www.rosculture.ru/milestones/day/show/?id=13997 Lets include reference to russian celebration. Nedko^{self bias resist} 15:14, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Republic of Macedonia

Is the celebration official national holiday? Does somebody have reliable sources? Nedko^{self bias resist} 03:30, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

• 24 may is not listed as holiday for 2006 at US embassy in Skopje site [1], I'd consider this to be point that the celebration is not for civic holiday. Nedko^{self bias resist} 04:42, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
• The day is mentioned as "Ден на (се)словенските просветители Свети Кирил и Методиј" (Day of slav enlighteners Saints Cyril and Methodius) in [2] and [3] (both links are in macedonian/"macedonian dialect"). Nedko^{self bias resist} 05:26, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
• The news article [4] is discussing the idea of making the holiday as civic. Nedko^{self bias resist} 05:26, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
• It is listed as national holiday here: [5]. Nedko^{self bias resist} 05:31, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

I'd assume that holiday is only religious. Nedko^{self bias resist} 05:26, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

I think we should leave the Macedonian section alone for now. Indeed, the article is much improved, and we should let it rest for a while. Evertype 08:53, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

I found list of not working days for Macedonian National Bank [6]. According to it, 24-th may is regular working day. I've asked two macedonian citizens about the holiday and they told me that it is only school holiday. --- Nedko^{self bias resist} 19:31, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

I see no reason to edit this section. It is listed as a public holiday and not as a bank holiday or national holiday. Evertype 10:56, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] About the "Short passional of Constantine-Cyril"

According to "Chrestomathy of Old Bulgarian Literature", published by Publishing house "Science and Art", Sofia, 1967, page 106, there are several known copies:

- Bucharest's copy from 1437, Middle Bulgarian language recension, now kept in the Romanian Academy of Sciences;

- Moldavian copy from Monastery of Suchava, created around 1450;

- Prizren's copy in collection, dated in XV-XVI centuries, Serbian recension, now kept in Cankt Petersburg's Public library;

- Pogodin's or Sankt Petersburg's copy, dated in XVI-XVII centuries, Serbian recension, now kept in the Public library in Sanct Petersburg;

- Belgrade's copy, dated in XVI-XVII centuries, now kept in the Serbian Academy of sciences;

- A copy from collection, dated in XVII century, Russian recension, now kept in the Historical museum of Moscow;

- Lviv's copy, Middle Bulgarian recension, now kept in the University of Lviv;

- Vahrameev's copy, now kept in the Historical museum of Moscow, Vahrameev's collection.

According to the chrestomathy "Old Bulgarian Literature", published by "Bulgarian writer", Sofia, 1986, Volume 4, Passionals, "Short passional of Constantine-Cyril", pages 510-512, the creation of the text is dated as folows:

- Russian researcher A. Bilbasov in IX century;

- according to Bulgarian researcher E. Georgiev it was created by St. Clement of Ohrid in IX or X centirues;

- according to Russian researcher A. Voronov - XI or XII centuries;

- Russian researcher P. Lavrov and Bulgarian researchers A. Teodorov-Balan and Cl. Ivanova - XIII century.

According to the same chrestomathy the first publication of this passional was made in 1858 by Russian researcher A. Gilferding (in Rissian: А. Гильфердинг, "Письмо к редактору", Известия АН по ОРЯС, VI, 1858, pages 381-386). There is newly found copy - dated in XV century, Bulgarian recension, now kept in the library of the Bulgarian Academy of Sciences.

Note - the word "legend" in Slavic languages in the cases of medieval passionals could means "historical narrative", not only "fiction" or "myth"! - Jackanapes 11:14, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] February 14

I'm pretty sure the Catholic Church celebrates Ss. C&M Day on February 14. "Saint" Valentine is no longer regarded as a saint, so that day had been replaced with this one.