Talk:Saint Patrick's Day/Archive 1

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This article could use some cleaning up...that last paragraph in 'Celebrations outside of Ireland' doesn't make sense to me (it's probably just me, but if it was cleaned up a bit it would be more clear). I like this article and I don't think any information should be removed, but I just don't think it is 'up to par' with an article on St. Patrick's Day that you would read in a print encyclopedia. If someone wants to try to reorganize it to sound more encyclopedic, I'll help...Jporcaro 20:18, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Could someone link to the correct Savannah, please? I don't know which one is right. 80.185.251.37 14:26, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Was someone drinking when they made this entry...Celebrations "ourside" Ireland. Fixed it.

Ahem :D Aidan


for reference -- Fowler says St without the full stop. -- Tarquin 20:22 Feb 25, 2003 (UTC)

Then Fowler is wrong. St. Patrick is NEVER EVER EVER written as 'St', ALWAYS as 'St.'. According to every list of saint (and I have three different sources open here on the screen and a fourth on the desk) saints names are written, according to the lists:

  • St. Benedict NEVER St Benedict
  • St. Augustine of Hippo NEVER St Augustine of Hippo
  • St. Francis NEVER St Francis
  • St. Jerome NEVER St Jerome
  • St. Valentine NEVER St Valentine
  • St. Francis of Assisi NEVER St Francis of Assisi
  • St. Anselm NEVER St Alselm

There is the Rule of St. Benedict, not the Rule of St Benedict.

The American calendar of Catholic saints says tomorrow is the feast day of St. Porphyry of Gaza. The 27th is the feast day of St. Gabriel of Our Lady of Sorrows. The 3rd of February was the feast day of St. Blase.

Furthermore, when one puts St John (minus the .) into google, one gets St. John Chrysostom, St. John of the Cross, St. John the Baptist, St. John the Evangelist, Pope St. John I, etc. (I checked 36 pages and not a single entry was 'St'. Every single one was 'St.'

The only place you find St minus the period is in some American schools' names.

In all the documents I have read mentioning Patrick, I have never ever ever come across him described as St Patrick. Wait there was one - an American student's essay in my class when I was studying history. The lecturer told her to 'drop her americanisms and learn to spell.' One of them was writing 'St' for 'St.' JTD 21:16 Feb 25, 2003 (UTC)

Actually, it's the other way around: "St" is the correct spelling in British English, while "St." is - or at least started out as - an americanism. In any case, the Wikipedia standard appears to be "St" (see e.g. saint). While I personally have no preference either way, whichever variant we choose should be applied consistently throughout Wikipedia. Mkweise 22:26 Feb 25, 2003 (UTC)

Actually

  • 'St.' has been used for millenia before America was ever invented, so it is anything but an americanism.
  • It is used by the major Christian faiths.
  • St. Patrick has been written like that for over one thousand years without exception.
  • If it was the correct version in British-English, then the Roman Catholic Church, the Church of England, the Church of Ireland and all the religious faiths that refer to saints are all wrong, which is highly unlikely. If anyone is likely to know what the correct version of how to refer to a saint is, it is the churches who 'make' saints! Oh, according to websites, England as a St. Thomas More, not a St Thomas More.

So clearly the correct version is incorrect. If Wikipedia refers to saints as 'St' it will have to change it, or is it seriously proposed that we ignore the collective views of all the major christian religions, because Fowlers dictionary thinks otherwise? JTD 22:35 Feb 25, 2003 (UTC)


JTD, Fowler's Modern English Usage is not wrong. It is the acknowledged authority on English usage. Writers, editors, and publishers use it as a guide. -- Tarquin 22:41 Feb 25, 2003 (UTC)

Not when it comes to referring to saints, it isn't.

  • The Irish Times uses 'St.'
  • The Irish Independent uses 'St.'
  • The Times (London) regularly uses 'St.'
  • My own publishers and their editors use 'St.', changing 'St' on the rare occasions they find it to 'St.'
  • 'St.' is the version which must be used in academic texts and theses by students in all Irish universities.

Fowler's is a superb source, but there are errors where those putting together the text made mistakes or false presumptions. These have occasionally nicknamed 'Fowler's howlers'. (Some years ago, when I started doing some freelance writing for an Irish newspaper, I was given a list of 'Fowler's Howlers' by the editorial department. Someone wrote in pen on it - when Fowlers is good it is VERY VERY GOOD, when it is bad it is horrid' based on an old nursery rhyme.) JTD 23:12 Feb 25, 2003 (UTC)

Saint Patrick's Day is celebrated in Beijing?? Wondering simply, -- Infrogmation 06:22 Mar 16, 2003 (UTC)

Why is there so much about St. Patrick's life here, when this article should really be discussing the holiday, and a separate article should discuss his life? -- Zoe

Could anyone clear up the issue of the longest running Parade in the world? Most sources indicate the honour should go to Montreal's Parade [1], [2], [3], yet New York's claims to have run every year since 1762, if true far longer than Montreal's. One source [4] claims Savannah, Georgia hold the title, but the date they give for the first parade is the same as in Montreal - 1824.

I pulled the dying the rivers green (how would this be done anyway) in favor of painting the traffic stripes green, which is done. Wetman 01:53, 17 Mar 2004 (UTC)

  • Food coloring. Chicago's been dying the Chicago River green since 1962. [5] - Nunh-huh 02:01, 17 Mar 2004 (UTC)
    • Yikes! Put it back! Wetman 02:02, 17 Mar 2004 (UTC)
      • Actually,40 lbs of food coloring: [6]. The pictures are great, they'd be a nice addition if they could be found copyright free. A lovelier Kelly green river you'd not want to see<G>. Nunh-huh 02:01, 17 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Contents

Move to Saint Patrick's Day?

I propose that we move this article to Saint Patrick's Day. Gareth Hughes 20:03, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I agree. Is there any reason why the short form of "saint" was used in the title? --Ryano 09:36, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
I went ahead and moved it. I'm not aware of any reason why the abbreviated form of "Saint" should have been used. --Ryano 09:29, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Images

I uploaded the following images: Image:Chicago River dyed green, focus on river.jpg, Image:Chicago Rivery dyed green, buildings more prominent.jpg, and Image:Chicago River, dye travelling upstream.jpg. I wasn't sure which images to put here and in Chicago River; feel free to switch them around. — Knowledge Seeker দ 07:30, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)

St. Patricks day Traditions

In the U.S., there is a tradition that people must wear green on St. Patricks day, and if they do not, they will be pinched by people who are. I don't know if they do this in other countries. I also remember hearing that wearing green was a thing that protestant Irish did, and that Catholic Irish wear orange. If these things are true, then we should mention them in the article. DaveTheRed 20:55, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)

No. The green on the flag of Ireland represents the Irish Catholics, while orange (as in the Orange Order, William of Orange, etc.) represents the Protestants (predominately in Ulster).--Ruthless4Life 20:50, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Origin

Does anyone know about the origin of St. Patrick's day? Like, is it an anniversary of something? Hendrik Fuß 13:53, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)

See the article on Saint Patrick. He was a historical figure, a Christian missionary to Ireland. He apparently died on 17 March near Downpatrick. In Christian tradition, a saint's day is usually kept on the day of death. Gareth Hughes 14:25, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)


St. Patricks day in Hong Kong

I am wondering: Is there any celebration in Hong Kong? I'm living in HK, but have never heard that there is parade here! Spring Dennis 15:15, Mar 19, 2005 (UTC)

Should be among Catholics only. Perhaps some catholic schools have it. — Instantnood 14:39, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC)

Roman Catholic?

The first line currently says that Saint Patrick's Day is a Roman Catholic feast day - it may be that, but not exclusively so. It is Ireland's national day, and also the celebration of the arrival of Christianity to Ireland. The fact that it falls on Patrick's feast day in the Roman Catholic calendar is probably secondary at this stage. Any thoughts? --Ryano 09:42, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

It is a feast day in the Church of Ireland and, for that matter, most of the Anglican Communion. I'll see if I can reword that sentence. --Gareth Hughes 10:23, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
I was going to edit the first line for similar reasons. It's a special day for some religions, but it's also a special day for Irish people (or "irish culture"?). Many non-religous people and people of non-Catholic/non-Christian religions contribute to, and appreciate, the festivities of St. Patrick's Day. In my own experience, Paddy's Day was never religous. It was about a guy who drove the snakes out of Ireland (yay!), and a parade, and things being painted green. As I got older I learned that it's also about drinking. Gronky 21:15, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Saint Patrick's Festival

Someone has changed the fact that Dublin has had a week long festival since 1996, the previous (and i believe correct) entry was 2000. I think it was extended in 1996 to 2 or 3 days, but only since 200 have they had a week long celebration. Can anyone confirm this? Sok 16:11, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

found this link to clear things up
http://www.stpatricksday.ie/cms/stpatricksday_history.html --- Sok 16:21, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Bank Holiday (Ireland) Act, 1903

Paddy's Day was declared a Bank Holiday in Ireland in 1903 (when southern Ireland was part of the UK). Northern Ireland still selebrates this holiday under this law. In the republic, is this still the act in force? Seabhcán 14:06, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Most popular St Pat's day celebrations

Please can somebody change the details about the most celebrated St Pat's day parades....as far as I am aware Birmingham (UK) is the third larget in the world. Manchester is listed but has no or little Irish population...Birmingham is practically an Irish city hence the huge party!

St. Patrick's celebrates boobies? lol

I think that someone should take out the use of the word 'boobies' in the first couple of sentences. While I found it funny and I had a good laugh for a couple of minutes, it really is unnecessary, and kind of childish. I was going to change it myself, but when I tried it wouldn't work. Maybe somebody else could do this? Thanks.

Errors?

"Many Americans travel to Ireland for vities."

Huh? --68.229.247.45 21:54, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
A.k.a. vandalism, which I've since fixed. If you come across anomalous text like this, it can sometimes be informative to go into the page's history via the link tab at the top, and slowly work your way back until you find where the mystery text appears. In this case, the "vities" bit shows up at this revision. Cheers, Eiríkr Útlendi 22:21, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

There are conflicting dates in this article on St. Patrick's death. The first paragraph says that he lived from 386-493. Under "Celebrations in Ireland" it says that he died in 461. The article on St. Patrick puts his death in 493, citing that it was commonly believed for a long time that he had died in 461. I don't know the correct year of his death and therefore am suggesting a change for anyone who knows the correct year.