Talk:Sailor Moon S

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Sailor Moon
 Sailor Moon S is part of WikiProject Sailor Moon, a project to present information on Sailor Moon and related articles. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page (see Wikipedia:Contributing FAQ), or visit our Project page for more information!
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Archives: Talismans archive

Contents

[edit] New Page

I do not claim that this page is good at all. It is the stub version, as it is incomplete. It does not have references yet, is poorly formatted, gives way too much detail on certain points while giving too little on others, and is just a very poor article. It does not even have the manga version, for I have not yet finished reading it or researching it.

Thus, all I am asking is that we work together to fix it. Rather than deleting it, we can fix it and make it something better. References, condensions, and reviews are all good.

I'll get some important screenshots from the season to put it. Any edit is very likeable by me. I do not claim it to be even near perfect.Sbloemeke 20:59, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

It was copyright violation, so I have redirected it to Sailor Moon. Please participate in discussion at WikiProject Sailor Moon, where we are already planning an SMS article. --Masamage 21:00, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
Just of note, I have confirmed that I was the author of the material, and it was a misunderstanding. Sbloemeke 21:11, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
He proved it by posting again, with my name, at the location of the original posting. So now we can get it wikified and up to speed. ^^
By the way, you're welcome to get involved with WP:SM. In the future, do please find out what consensus is before making new articles. Among other things, we've agreed to model all story-arc pages after the existing one, Sailor Stars, and to give them all specific anime-based names. --Masamage 21:16, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
Oh, oops. I didn't know there was such a thing. I didn't know there was a consensus stuff. OK, cool. It was made to look like the Stars one, it's just not finished. And I'm sure that I will get involved in it. Though, I'll probably be working mainly on this page, because it is my favorite season.
Just FYI, I am not going to abandon this article. I am going to be away tommorow, Saturday, and some of Sunday. As such, I will further make edits then. It's just my luck.Sbloemeke 21:21, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
No problem at all. :) Thanks for your contribution! --Masamage 21:22, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Beta Version

OK, I made a ton of revisions, and I think this page is out of the Alpha Stub version into the Beta Stub version. It has a couple small references in it, a music section, a trivia section, a couple pictures, and the complete reference section and see also section. However, it is still a Beta version. Here's what I was planning on doing next, if anyone wants to help out over the weekend.

  • Condense the Anime Portion. This is sorely needed.
Finished. Sbloemeke 00:00, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Create a general storyline section to put above the anime portion
  • Create a Notable Voices Section
  • Find a few more pictures. Prefferably one of Michiru and Haruka would suit best.
Finished. Sbloemeke 00:51, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Make a manga section. I'm intending on doing this once I finish the manga myself.

Anyways, Beta version is pretty cool! :) I guess Omega Version would be after the first three, and the Starting Article would be after all 5. Maybe even "B" level would be after the 5. I don't know.Sbloemeke 01:06, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

A few things to work on:
  1. Normalize all the character names. The spellings used kind of vary throughout the article, and don't match what we're using in other articles (ie Eudial, not Eugeal). Check Death Busters and Witches 5 for reference.
Finished. Sbloemeke 00:00, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
  1. There's kind of too much. It should be thinned down, if you can manage it. If you find you're going deep into the conversations in specific episodes, back off. Just summarize what happened. Look at the level of detail in Sailor Stars.
Finished. Sbloemeke 00:00, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
  1. There should be a section that gives the general plotline regardless of series, stating everything the two have in common. This should be followed by a section stating what happens specifically in the manga, and then one for the anime. Again, see Sailor Stars.
I'll do what I can, but I've been taking way too much advantage of Spring Break and need to do a few non-WP things this weekend. X) --Masamage 08:48, 30 March 2007 (UTC)


To get help from other people i've linked this page up to the main SM template. It may look like crap but if people see it they will help ^-^ (i hope <_<)Lego3400: The Sage of Time 15:54, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merge from Death Busters#Story

Now that we've got a SMS arc page, I feel we should move the Death Busters Story section here. I don't feel that this should be very controversial, except for the 'that'd make the article so long!' argument. For precedence's sake, on Shadow Galactica we feel no need to reiterate the plot of Sailor Stars. -Malkinann 05:11, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Good call. We totally should get rid of that section. Not by copying it in, per se, but by ensuring that all the relevant info is here already. I'm guessing it probably is? --Masamage ♫ 05:25, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
The manga stuff from DB#Story isn't. I'd feel better about copying in the stuff from DB#Story, as it's also kind of written to encompass both anime and manga and then editing the whole lot of it down.-Malkinann 05:56, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
Probably that would be a good idea for a placeholder of the manga. I'll be writing a full out report on the manga sometime this week to put in, and then decapitate anyways, but I would not be opposed. Just FYI, sometime later tonight I will be cutting out large chunks of the super long anime section to make it more precise. I'm also planning to get another picture for the article. But the manga section should be good by Tuesday, I'm hoping. If not, my spring break is next week.Sbloemeke 18:08, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sailor Moon S Logo

In the upper right hand corner, is there a wiki thing that says that a caption box should be around every picture? I don't know why, but it felt better when the logo did not have a caption box than when it did... Is this something that I can feel, or is there a wiki rule/guideline about pictures saying against what I feel? Sbloemeke 02:48, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

I know what you mean. It is usually considered best to put captions on images, though there are some exceptions when things are really obvious (like the face-shots in the Sailor Moon article). This probably couldn't get an exception just on the basis of being written in another language; we're supposed to assume that the majority of people using the English-language Wikipedia don't know Japanese. Aside from that, it's an official series logo and that should be pointed out too. --Masamage ♫ 02:59, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
OK. I'm probably going to try this afternoon a couple of things to see if I can make it look any better. Just like Ami told Palla Palla, it needs to be in the golden ratio. :pSbloemeke 10:48, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Close friends" in the anime?

  • Now that I think about it, the innuendo between Haruka and Michiru in the anime didn't really come out until SuperS and was pretty blatant in Stars; still, is it really accurate to saythey were only depicted as "close friends" in the anime, especially considering who the director was? JuJube 03:15, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
    • I was wondering that too, and I think it's probably not. For one thing, Michiru talks about having had a crush on Haruka in the Distant Days of Uranus episode. For another, everybody thinks of them as a couple, especially early in the S series when their role is to show up together encircled by light, be beautiful and elegant for a while, have people gasp and blush at how cool they are, and walk off in a whirl of rose petals. They also enter the contest together. But, oh! Here's some proof that they were lesbians in S: that interview with Ogata Megumi that we have floating around says that when she got the part, she asked Ms. Takeuchi if the two were a couple and was told yes. --Masamage ♫ 03:59, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Ikuhara told Megumi Ogata when she was cast to act as if they were married. I've changed the reference to "close friends". (my foot!) -Malkinann 04:20, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
God no. They were definately more than close friends in the anime. I don't know why I wrote that....Sbloemeke 11:27, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto weren't in SuperS...--Freesonwang 01:35, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
    • They're in the SuperS movie, and Michiru famously teases Haruka about the fun things adults get to do. --Masamage ♫ 01:46, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
    • They also were in a SuperS special, which did revolve around the central plotline.Sbloemeke 12:51, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Omega Version.

As per how I work, I wrote out the managa section. There may be inaccuracies in it. There a 0 citations. And it is grammatically horrible. Yet, it is there. Thus, it's Omega Version. That means that in my eyes, this article is almost acceptable. Here are what I think needs to be done:

1. Condense/Correct Manga Section
2. Take out parts similar to both Manga and Anime, and replace the Story intro section with those.
3. Create a Notable Voices Section
4. Maybe add a manga picture or two.


At this point, it should look at least acceptable as an article, probably "B" class. So, that's exciting. :) Sbloemeke 23:27, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Once the similarities between manga and anime are outmerged into their own section, the organization will be stable enough that I'd be happy to give it a copyedit and insert probable citations. --Masamage ♫ 23:29, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Trivia Section

Remove it. It's not needed. If you want to do a commentary about the reaction to this series in the real world, then you can keep some of the stuff likely to be cut, but this section needs to be cut out. No trivia sections should be allowed on SM articles if we want FA. (The first trivia is vague anyhow). --Hitsuji Kinno 17:32, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Strongly disagree. The trivia section are the interesting facts that do not fit in any section at all in this article, and it was made as per the model of Sailor Stars. Besides, I'm more concerned on getting a basic form to this article as compared to minor details. Trivia, to me, has always been the place where people can look and say, "Wow, that is interesting," sort of the icing on the cake.
I also disagree with your prose requirement in the music section, as that is given all it needs. It really is just a list, and should not be anything more. Keep in mind, all of these are my opinions and are made with all respect intended.Sbloemeke 00:07, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
I don't think we need to turn the music list into prose either. It won't be a long list to read through.-Malkinann 23:20, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
I agree. Theme song lists are totally fine. The trivia section needs to go away as a matter of style, but the stuff contained in it can easily be worked into the other sections. --Masamage ♫ 01:11, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
After looking at it, three songs is better in prose, especially since stuff can be explained about them. The section's really short now, though. Should we mention other important series songs, as in Sailor Stars? --Masamage ♫ 02:52, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
From what I remember, there are not really many songs in the series at all. This is the first season where the Michiru/Haruka transformation music is played, but when I put that in it was deleted.Sbloemeke 12:32, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] *Update*

OK, so now I think I've reached the point where I cannot do anything else until someone slashes and burns the page to sound better. The article is complete. It has a Both section, a manga section, an anime section, a music section, and a very good intro, thanks to marsamage. :)

So, I think the next step for this page is a full out copyedit, which I suck horribly at. There are things in here mentioned multiple times, there are things which may be too minor, or not large enough, and there are things that I personally would like to change. But, if anyone would be so kind to make a copyedit, I'd be more than grateful.

Until then, I cannot do any more work. Oh, and if you are thinking I write a lot in discussion, I know I do. I have difficulty keeping my mouth shut. :)Sbloemeke 00:34, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sidebox

See? I can't keep my mouth shut. I tried making one of those cool little boxes for the side. Don't know if it's wanted or not, but it's there. :)Sbloemeke 01:16, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

I think that is extremely likely to confuse people and to be mistaken for a sidebox of the entire series. Best to leave it off, I suspect. --Masamage ♫ 01:42, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] English adaptation

What say we add a section on changes made for the English version? Stars doesn't need one, obviously, but I think it would be handy for "seasons" that have been dubbed. --Masamage ♫ 15:55, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I suppose that could be handy. I'll go to SMU and see what they have there in regards to it. It'd be good in starting to eliminate the trivia section. Sbloemeke 20:45, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
Exactly. And just so we're on the same page, I'm thinking of very general stuff, not individual instances of stupid dialogue or internal inconsistency.
Things that come to mind are the selection of new voice actors for some characters (like Ikuko-mama becoming Sailor Neptune, the popularity of Stephanie Beard, etc), the treatment of Haruka and Michiru's kissing-cousins relationship, Hotaru's name being unchanged, the "Bureau of Bad Behavior," and the beautifully offensive "funny symbols" incident. We'd need documentation and secondary sources for all these, of course, but that won't be terribly hard to find. --Masamage ♫ 21:27, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Incorrect Info

They are Haruka and Michiru, and Eudial offers them an island holiday as a ruse. This information is incorrect, unless it's something that differs from the original version to the dub. But if that is so, it should be clarified. In the original episode where the Holy Grail is first revealed, Eudial gets Uranus and Neptune to show up at the Marine Cathedral (a church under construction on an island, which will eventually be connected to the mainland via bridge) by telling them she has found the true Talisman holders, and if they will show up, she'll give them the opportunity to see her victory-- or try and defeat her one last time. Uranus and Neptune have no idea that Eudial has discovered that Haruka and Michiru are actually the Talisman holders. --TheSweet 20:06, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Yikes, great catch. Yeah, this article was contributed in one big lump and hasn't received nearly the amount of copy-editing and fact-checking that it needs. Please feel entirely free to edit it mercilessly. --Masamage ♫ 21:03, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
Oh god. I never wrote that either. Someone else must have. Please, if you wish to, destroy every bit of this article and reconstruct it. It is such a mess.Sbloemeke 21:38, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
Oh whoops, that was me trying to condense things a bit. How's this? "They are Haruka and Michiru. Discovering this, Eudial issues a challenge to Uranus and Neptune, inviting them to stop her from taking the Talismans. As Uranus and Neptune don't know that they themselves are the Talisman holders, they fall into her trap." -Malkinann 23:06, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
Sounds good. --Masamage ♫ 23:17, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rewrite

I've just been looking at this article for the first time and I have to be brutally frank and say the story section needs a complete rewrite. It should be about the story, describing the plot structure etc., not a Reader's Digest version of SMS. At the moment it's just a linear narrative rather than a top-down description. For instance, I would say that the anime story is made up of two parts: the quest for the Holy Grail, and the story of the Messiah of Silence.

I could do the anime side myself, however I've only read a couple of chapters of the manga. Ideally the portions common to both would only appear in the initial section, however even from the little bit of the manga I've read it's clear to me that the dramatic structure is very different in the anime: in the manga, the outer senshi have the talismans from the start but fear to combine them, whereas in the anime the quest to find the talismans forms the first half of the story, and the revelation that the outer senshi have them forms the climax of that part of the story. So it would seem the anime and manga plots are similar only at a very general level.

Anyhow I'll try and find time to read the SMS manga so that I can see how the two relate, but failing that I'll just redo the anime section unless someone else beats me to it. I think SMS is the best of the Sailor Moon stories, so it deserves a good article! Samatarou 22:14, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

You're absolutely right, and several of us have been trying to work around to this for a while. We would completely love it if you'd like to give this a whack. :) It needs exactly what you say; an overview of the plot arc in general, then specific work on the manga and then the anime. Among other things it also needs to be shorter. In a terms of structure, a good template to work from is the Sailor Stars article, which (though far from perfect) is definitely our best existing arc article. We'd like to have them all look more or less the same.
Meanwhile, please check out WikiProject Sailor Moon, where there are a bunch of editors working together on these articles. :) I and several others have this specific one on our watchlists, so I'll be hovering around if you have any questions, or if I see anything I can easily clarify. I think I should be able to help somewhat with the manga section, though I haven't read the entire thing either. --Masamage ♫ 22:28, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
You are right. To be honest, in like November 2006, I was describing this to a bunch of people to say that it was not a girly show, and gave them the plot like that. This became the basic article. It definately needs a complete rewrite. I put it in as something to start, nothing else. Sbloemeke 02:46, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
It's awesome to have a start, of course. ^_^ Stars is the only other arc page that even tries! --Masamage ♫ 04:06, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
One small point that definitely needs addressing: in the section on the manga story, Ptirol and the Silence Glaive are both name-dropped as though the reader should already know what they are, when they haven't been mentioned previously. (Yes, anyone reading this probably will know what they are, but it's still bad style.) 91.105.44.183 00:50, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
You're right. I'll make those a little clearer. --Masamage ♫ 05:44, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Talismans talk page

Now that these articles have been merged, I've moved the Talismans talk page here. --Masamage ♫ 23:44, 2 January 2008 (UTC)