Portal talk:Saints

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July 4, 2007 Peer review Reviewed
WikiProject Saints PortalSaints is part of the WikiProject Saints, an effort to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Saints and other individuals commemorated in Christian liturgical calendars on Wikipedia. This includes but is not limited to saints as well as those not so affiliated, country and region-specific topics, and anything else related to saints. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
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Contents

[edit] Work on this page

  • As of July, this is up to date. --evrik 21:32, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Which July? Obviously not 2006 AD —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.7.160.103 (talk • contribs)
    • huh?-evrik 13:37, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Now up to date on August --evrik 16:45, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Intro

I'm not sure how to rephrase it, but the intro here should not be about the WikiProject. It should instead detail what, exactly, a saint is. —Mira 08:36, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

  • Take a crack at it. --evrik 16:45, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Candidate Saints

Is there room on this portal for candidate saints (venerable as well as blessed)? Just a thought. Scolaire 19:50, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

  • Like who? --evrik 19:57, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
    • Like Blessed John Duns Scotus.--- Louie (talk) 17:15, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
    • Yeah, there is. In fact, it also includes those not recognized by Roman Catholics at all, like Martin Luther King, Jr. or any of the other parties who have been included in any of the liturgical calendars of Christian churches. However, I think you can understand that any other "B" class articles of "High" or "Top" importance to the project are likely to be included before that article, current a B/Mid importance, is likely to be. I'm still working on setting up the entire rotation though, and might try to sometime soon get the featured articles on daily rotation. I'm fairly sure he would be included when and if that gets accomplished. John Carter (talk) 17:19, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Help

I am willing to help out with updating the portal. --Sir James Paul, La gloria è a dio 22:57, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

  • Good. --evrik (talk) 22:55, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Updated

I just finished updating this page. I added a new section Saints by Country. --Lord Balin 03:40, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

  • I trimmed it back. --evrik (talk) 22:55, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
    • Why? Even the Roman Missal allows local variations.--- Louie (talk) 17:16, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] News section

I question the usefulness of this particular section of the portal. I'm not really sure that there actually is a lot of "news" in this particular field, other than perhaps recent canonizations, etc. Would the rest of you mind if the section were to be removed or changed to something else? I personally would favor removal. However, if others would want to replace it with something else, I would propose trying to set up an automated changing of the listing of saints and others included on the various liturgical calendars for the day. I'm not sure exactly how to set that up, if it's even possible, though. John Carter 18:24, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

  • I would tend to agree. I like the idea of soemthing automanted, perhaps the saint of the day or month? --22:56, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Daily update of saint biography

It was proposed immediately above that maybe we try to update the biography article on a daily basis. I like this idea, because I think having a "saint of the day" feature would probably dramatically increase the traffic to this portal, which is one of our basic goals. I am contacting the Anglicanism, Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Lutheranism, Oriental Orthodoxy, and Saints project for their input in which saints to choose for which days, although anyone who sees it here is more than welcome to post at Portal:Saints/Saint of the day their suggestions for which saint or other figure who qualifies as a "saint" in at least one Christian church should be included on which day. We will then try to go through the listed nominees for the most fair, balanced, and neutral selection possible. It will be a lot of work, but I think it will dramatically increase the traffic to the portal. John Carter 20:03, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

So the idea would be to create a calendar of saints that we can all agree on and use it for daily rotation? If that's the gist, we could actually create two or three (seeing as how there are so many feasts), and have multiple rotations (Year A, Year B, Year C, whatever). That way it wouldn't be so difficult to choose. Alekjds talk 04:15, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
What I think will work best is if we first set up the list of all those commemorated on each day, and then decided who (or, in cases like the Annunciation, what) gets mentioned there. Setting up a multi-year rotation would certainly be acceptable, though. If anyone wants to help add to the lists for selection purposes, though, feel free to do so. Then we would have all the information on one page in front of us and hopefully be able to make the selections with more information. John Carter 15:11, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
If you can wait just a little while (Let me get through Holy Week and Easter), I would be glad to help out. -- Pastordavid 16:09, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
Why, are you busy this time of year? ;) Seriously, any help would be appreciated at any time, before or after the big event of the Christian year. John Carter 16:13, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
  • IF we do it, we should tie it to the saints calendar. --evrik (talk) 16:50, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
    • That's the intention. Any biographies or other content featured would be featured because that individual (or event) has some form of celebration on that day. The big question, as indicated above, is which individuals to include on which days, as many saints (Basil the Great comes to mind) are commemorated on different dates by different churches. That's why we need to know as many details about the various calendars as possible. John Carter 18:33, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Non-Christian & non-Catholic Saints

I am quite interested in the usage of "saint" as a title is non-Catholic settings: from St. Charles I to St. John Coltrane and everywhere inbetween.

Before I start a category, what else is out there? Mdbrownmsw 17:10, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Quite a lot, actually. Part of the problem with answering your question is the apparent assumption that primarily Catholics use the word, when in fact almost all the pre-Reformation churches recognized saints, the Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox churches still do, the Anglican churches and Lutheran churches have the concept even if they don't use the word itself. Many/most of these already have catgories. Charles I of England, who I believe you were referring to, is already in the Category:Anglican saints. Regarding Coltrane, he could probably be placed in the same category as well. For others, however, there may not be sufficient numbers to create a category. There are extant lists of saints like Saints of Ecclesia Gnostica Catholica, however, and you'd probably be better served, at least initially, by creating a list like that one or others. John Carter 17:23, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Some Anglican/Episcopal and Lutheran churches DO use the language of saints, and it is still part of the formal language of each tradition. In the Episcopal Church, there is a liturgical calendar and the Book of Common Prayer includes acknowledgement of saints' days. Some churches especially acknowledge saints at services such as Morning Prayer.--Parkwells (talk) 13:03, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Russian Royal Family

As far as I know the Russian Royal family were Orthodox Christians and as such would never likely be canonized in the Catholic Church. They are also not even listed as being venerated in Eastern Catholic Churches on thier specific Articles. Yeth they show up in the Eastern Catholic Sainst Category. Because of this I think they ought ot be removed. But I don't know how to do that. If anyone disagrees I'd like to see some eveidence to the contrary.Commment (talk) 14:50, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

No objections here. It is possible that the Russian Catholic Church has recently canonized them or declared them venerable or higher, but I don't have any direct knowledge of that. Personally, like I said, no objections to removal of the category at this time. John Carter (talk) 15:13, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
Well strictly speaking there is no Russian Catholic Church. The Catholics who use the eastern rite equivalent to the Russian Orthodox are of such a small number that they are under the Latin Bishops. Plus the canonization process in Eastern Catholic Churches is Identical to that of the West as far as I know and there is no mention of them on the lists of recenly canonized and beatified [1]. They are not anywhere. This however do not contain record of Bl. Theodore Romzha [2] who was beatified June 27 2001. So really it prooves nothing but nonetheless they aren't on the vaticans website as far as I have found.Commment (talk) 07:03, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
The same is true of Job of Pochayiv. THis entire category should be purged of only Orthodox saints. Commment (talk) 07:12, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
Probably right. I think the category name was possibly changed at some point. One of the larger concerns we have is categorization, and ensuring that everyone is categorized correctly, as those categories will eventually, if they haven't already, formed the bases of lists. If you are aware of any that are miscategorized, feel free to be bold and fix the categorization, although you might leave a comment on the talk page regarding the changed categorization. John Carter (talk) 14:51, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
I'd love to but as I said in my first post I have no Idea how to do this all I see when I click edit this page is "Category:Roman Catholic saints" in double brackets and "Category:Eastern Catholics|Saints" in double brackets Commment (talk) 05:57, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
OK, sorry for missing that. When you see, for instance, this Category:Eastern Catholics, with or without the | and any following text, just remove the content between the brackets. The content behind the | is there to indicate how the individual page should be alphabetized in the given category. John Carter (talk) 15:14, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
I shall weigh in here - I started the category because there are plenty of saints in the eastern catholic calendar who are not saints in the western church. all saints of the orthodox churches are automatically saints of the corresponding eastern catholic church unless they were anti-catholic in life. incidentally, the russian catholic church does exist, merely bereft of bishops at the moment. it appears in the annuario pontificio, iirc, and has two exarchates. InfernoXV (talk) 06:22, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
I think the Russian Royal Family were likely Russian Orthodox, not Eastern Catholic, and I do seem to recall reading they had been canonized or beatified. Will try to find it. --Parkwells (talk) 13:35, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
Yes, they were commemorated by the Russian Orthodox Church. Other Wikipedia articles cover this.
   Main article: Romanov sainthood

In 1981 Nicholas and his immediate family were canonized as saints by the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia as martyrs. On 14 August 2000 they were canonized by the synod of the Russian Orthodox Church. They were not named martyrs, since their death did not result immediately from their Christian faith; instead they were canonized as passion bearers. According to a statement by the Moscow synod, they were glorified as saints for the following reasons:

   "In the last Orthodox Russian monarch and members of his family we see people who sincerely strove to incarnate in their lives the commands of the Gospel. In the suffering borne by the Royal Family in prison with humility, patience, and meekness, and in their martyrs deaths in Ekaterinburg in the night of 4/17 July 1918 was revealed the light of the faith of Christ that conquers evil."

[edit] Mormons known as saints

Shouldn't there be a mention here of the modern Mormon practice of calling its general members saints? (The Mormon church is more correctly known as "the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.") It comes from the early Christian church practice of calling members saints, which is mentioned in the New Testament. - guest —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.207.242.4 (talk) 13:01, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Pope Marcellinus and Marcellinus and Peter

Marcellinus in the Marcellinus and Peter article and Pope Marcellinus are the same person. Believe me, I am one of people who is named after him. The year of deaths are the same, both are martyrs, and have the same location. The feast dates, however, are different. Pope Marcellinus is in April while Marcellinus and Peter is in June. But here is my source confirming further that this person is the same: [3] - mind that you have to click X all the time to remove the annoying login screen before being able to read it for a short time.
Further, I have a proof in form of a book in Indonesian language, which said that Marcellinus was a priest becoming a pope - which exactly matches the description of both articles. Consider for a merger of these article w_tanoto (talk) 20:07, 1 June 2008 (UTC)