Talk:Safety (firearms)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Firearms; If you would like to join us, please visit the project page where you can find a list of open tasks. If you have any questions, please consult the FAQ.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the quality scale.
Additional information: This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-Class status: Referencing and citation: not checked Coverage and accuracy: not checked Structure: not checked Grammar: not checked Supporting materials: not checked

	This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see lists of open tasks and regional and topical task forces. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.
Start	This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale.
Additional information and associated task forces: This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-Class status: Referencing and citation: not checked Coverage and accuracy: not checked Structure: not checked Grammar: not checked Supporting materials: not checked To fill out this checklist, please add the following to the template call: <!-- B-Class-1. It is suitably referenced, and all major points have appropriate inline citations. --> |B-Class-1=yes/no <!-- B-Class-2. It reasonably covers the topic, and does not contain obvious omissions or inaccuracies. --> |B-Class-2=yes/no <!-- B-Class-3. It has a defined structure, including a lead section and one or more sections of content. --> |B-Class-3=yes/no <!-- B-Class-4. It is free from major grammatical errors. --> |B-Class-4=yes/no <!-- B-Class-5. It contains appropriate supporting materials, such as an infobox, images, or diagrams. --> |B-Class-5=yes/no Associated task forces (general topics): Military technology and engineering task force Weaponry task force

Contents 1 An unusual safety failure 2 Proposed merge: "Grip safety" into this article 3 Needs work 4 Introduction Paragraph 5 Tang Safety 6 Barrel Safety? 7 What about Safety Notches on single-actions?

[edit] An unusual safety failure

I didn't find a good place to insert this into any Wikipedia articles yet, and don't know enough about firearms to write one, so I figured I'd drop a reference in here for some more firearm-savvy editor to use. Here's a case wherein a Colt 1991 A-1 pistol fired while its thumb safety was still engaged on account of the powerful magnetic field inside an MRI machine pulling the firing pin out of its normal position: Beitia, Anton Oscar; Steven P. Meyers, Emanuel Kanal and William Bartell (2002). "Spontaneous Discharge of a Firearm in an MR Imaging Environment". American Journal of Roentgenology 178: 1092-1094.  Bryan Derksen 03:42, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Wow! What an interesting case. Reading the hypothesis of what happened and why, I think that they are exactly correct in this reasoning.

This was not a result of any highly egregious negligence, but rather a series of unfortunate conditions lining up. I think that there needs to be standardized protocol at MRI sites for checking weapons at the door, and keeping them secured until pickup—the same sort of protocol that courthouses already have in place to serve the many police officers who come in and go out each day. The biggest challenge here is that courthouses already have guards on-site, so the "keeping secured" part is not a problem, whereas it'd be expensive to keep a guard around at every MRI site. However, I'm not sure that not bothering is an option, when you consider how many patients could be police officers or CCW civilians. (Could be 1-4 of every 100 patients I would guess). One more piece of the healthcare expense mountain, but not really an avoidable one, it seems to me at the moment.

As for where to cite this in Wikipedia, it doesn't require a lot of words, maybe just a section in Gun safety called "Environments requiring protocols for weapons-check at the door", with "courthouses", "hospitals", and "outpatient MRI" being bullet points beneath that heading. I think I will go add that as a subhead under "Gun safety for firearms not in use". — Lumbercutter 17:50, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, seeing that ANY kind of metal will interfere with an MRI, I'm sure that a firearm would surely not be immune to elecromagnetic forces that impact any other metallic object. If your not supposed to bring a belt buckle into an MRI, than why would you bring a firearm? That's like giving a diabetic a bag of sugar when he is under doctor's orders to avoid candy.

[edit] Proposed merge: "Grip safety" into this article

• AGREE - I think Grip safety would be better off as part of this article. Arthurrh 21:37, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
• Agree. I thought about doing this a while ago, but have never gotten around to it. A good idea. — Lumbercutter 22:16, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Needs work

Wow, this page needs a lot of work. I was thinking about structure first. It looks like there are two basic lists. One would be the types of safeties, the other (the one currently in the article) would be what kinds of gun use each kinds of safeties. Something like this:

==Safety types==
===Grip===
===cross-bolt===
===yada yada===
==Firearm types==
===Single action revolver===
===lever-action rifle===
===shotgun===
===yada yada===

Or maybe we just need the list of safety types, rather than the current article organiztion, now that I think about it. Thoughts, comments, suggestions? I don't want to jump on it till I have a good idea of where to go. Arthurrh 19:15, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Your first suggestion is best, IMO—that is, what you show in the sample outline. I would have started working toward that kind of outline, but have never had time to start. It will be a lot of work to fill out such an outline, but that's what would be needed to create a proper article on the topic. I think you should definitely go ahead. Even if you don't have time to complete it all, it would be an improvement to make progress toward the goal. At revolver there used to be a really cool animated diagram that showed the action as the pawl turned the cylinder. (Not there anymore, I guess it wasn't GFDL-compatible.) If I had the skills to make one of those animated diagrams, I would make one for each type of safety and put it under each heading. A brainstorm for the future. — Lumbercutter 02:03, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Introduction Paragraph

I changed the first sentence of the first paragraph from:

"In firearms, a safety or safety catch is a mechanism used to prevent the accidental firing of a weapon, to ensure safer handling." to "In firearms, a safety or safety catch is a mechanism used to help prevent the accidental firing of a weapon, helping to ensure safer handling, as no firearm should ever be considered safe, even when unloaded with the safety on."

The reason I did this is because the first paragraph said in no uncertain terms that once a weapon's safety has been put in the on position it will not fire and the weapon is "safe." This is not true at all. Most people who are trained or have experience with firearms will tell you that a gun is never considered safe (unable to shoot), even when the weapon has no chambered rounds, the magazine is out, the action is open and locked, and the safety is on. Medic8613 06:57, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tang Safety

In the section on shotguns there is a mention of a "tang safety" but no definition of what a tang safety is, and it is not mentioned before or after this instance in the article. Most of my shooting is with handguns and post modern assault rifles, and not shotguns. I assume its a switch on the top of the stock right at the end of the action that is toggled with the thumb, but I am just guessing, and don't know for sure. If anyone knows the definition it should probably be added to the list of various different types of safeties, or explained in the section on shotguns. Medic8613 07:13, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

That's exactly what a tang safety is. It's simply one form of manual safety, different from a button safety in the trigger guard (another popular shotgun/rifle safety). 71.158.181.131 (talk) 14:30, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Barrel Safety?

I seem to recall that the Colt 45 had a safety at the end of the barrel so that it would not fire if pressed against something. If this is correct, should this be added in the right place to the is article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.24.6.135 (talk) 20:12, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

That's simply a byproduct of recoil actions. When you press the end of a cocked Browning-action semi-auto against a surface, the slide moves rearward out of "lock-up" which generally prevents the hammer from contacting the pin with enough force to send it into the primer. It also generally moves the firing pin block, if it exists, out of line with the mechanism that disengages it. This can actually be considered an annoyance, but as most gun owners don't need to press a gun's muzzle against a surface it's not a big deal. 71.158.181.131 (talk) 14:36, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] What about Safety Notches on single-actions?

This page neglects to mention the relief cuts present on certain single action revolvers that make it safe and permissible to carry them with a fully loaded cylinder. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.239.229.213 (talk) 07:03, 9 June 2008 (UTC)