Talk:Sadism and masochism in fiction

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Articles for deletion This article was nominated for deletion on 14 December 2007. The result of the discussion was Keep.

I have a feeling that the original title of the film was Maîtresse, certainly as depicted on the poster.

"Episode 1x02 of the 2005 FOX series The Inside dealt exclusively with S&M, and was levelled with fines from the PTC as a result." This can't be correct. The PTC is a private organization with no power to impose fines. The FCC can impose fines, but I don't know if they did so in this case.

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[edit] Fight Club could be included?

A large portion of the movie was the love of having pain inflicted on yourself and inflicting pain on others. The main character at one point even beat himself up, while laughing. Tyler Durden also was laughing and smiling when he got pummelled by 'Lou'.

05:25, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Strangeland?

It stars Dee Snider. Not as bad as you might think, although I'm surprised not to see it on the list since the film's major theme is on release through pain whether it be sadistic or masochistic. There's even an article, so it wouldn't be difficult to link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strangeland

[edit] Suggestions for addition

I am a little hesitant to add these, because of the tight phrasing of the listing of what qualifies as BDSM for the purposes of listed movies. If there is a more apposite list for those two titles, I would be much interested. Bondage is BDSM, but it is not sadism as such. Flash Gordon has clear sadistic themes interspersed within the narrative, (including the two black leather clad daemons, or what have you). Perils of Gwendolyn uses fetish clothing, and there are bondage scenes, though not consentual, clearly recognizable. -- Cimon avaro; on a pogostick. 18:48, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Perils of Gendolyn was loosely based on a John Willie comic, and features abundant bondage/fetish imagery. Flash Gordon features bondage and whipping and so on, but so do plenty of other adventure movies and books.

[edit] Oh, Calcutta!

The two S&M themed segments of "Oh, Calcutta!" are printed in a book called "S-M: The Last Taboo" by Gerald and Caroline Greene (Blue Moon Books, 1995). This book includes a chapter alleging to be part of Aubrey Beardsley's "Under the Hill", but I've never found this chapter anywhere else. This makes me suspect that this is some kind of hoax. Does anybody know if those two S&M-themed sketches of "Oh, Calcutta!" are printed anywhere else? The book claims they were "rarely performed".

[edit] Fullmetal Alchemist

I'd cut the mention of Envy. Sadistic villains are so common that it would be impractical to list all of them. --Mightyfastpig 02:24, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mainstream Films?

Couldn't it just be changed to films, b/c as far as I know Salo, among others, was never mainstream and is still banned in some countries to this day.

[edit] In popular culture items removed from Sadism and masochism

These are removed from a list that grew to excess in Sadism and masochism#Sadism_and_masochism_in_fiction:

  • The novel @Gordon@, by Edith Templeton, is a semi-autobiographical account of a long-term sadomasochistic relationship.
  • The 1971 film Straw Dogs, by director Sam Peckinpah, features a scene where the character of Amy Sumner (played by Susan George) is "raped" by one of the few local men responsible for tiling the roof of her and her husband's house. The scene is extremely ambiguous, but it is usually interpreted that Amy begins to enjoy the encounter, of which she is the masochistic subject.
  • In Ayn Rand's novel The Fountainhead, the sexual relationship between the protagonists is characterized by violence and force, which the female protagonist savours.
  • Brendan Connell's novel The Translation of Father Torturo, features a character, Cardinal Zuccarelli, who finds romantic pleasure in humiliation and pain.
  • GoldenEye, the 1995 James Bond film features Xenia Onatopp, a crazed Russian killer who takes pleasure during sex by strangling her victims or crushing their pelvis with her thighs.
  • The 2001 movie La Pianiste (released with subtitles as The Piano Teacher) describes a relationship between a repressed piano teacher and her pupil, which ends unhappily when she reveals her extreme masochistic desires to him, which brings the relationship to an end, but not before he has made a disgusted attempt to enact his conception of her masochistic fantasies.
  • The metaphysical "documentary" What the Bleep Do We Know!? featured a bridesmaid who is shown subconsciously transmitting the message "Make me suffer please!" to the wedding-guests.
  • The 2001 Japanese movie Koroshiya 1 (released with subtitles as Ichi the Killer) follows 2 main characters, Kakihara and Ichi. Kakihara is an extreme sado-masochist who has a taste for pain and humiliation, while also having a taste of delivering pain and humiliation. Kakihara is looking for the extreme sadist who will grant him his wish of ultimate masochistic release even if it results in his death. (In fact he hopes it does)
  • A 2002 movie, Secretary, directed by Steven Shainberg, explores the relationship between a masochistic secretary and her dominant, sadistic employer.
  • In Paulo Coelho's novel Eleven Minutes the main character, Maria, experiments with sadomasochism, and her partner has studied the topic thoroughly.
  • In the novels by Jacqueline Carey, the Kushiel's Legacy saga, the main character Phedre is an extreme masochist for whom sex is a religious experience.
  • Jacqueline Carey's Kushiel's Legacy trilogy and related books star a masochistic woman. There are numerous examples of Edgeplay within the books.
  • The words "sadistic" and "masochistic" are mentioned at the beginning of both Kill Bill movies in Bill's speech.
  • In the video game of Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater, there is a character named Volgin who is a saddist.
  • In the manga series M.A.R.: Marchen Awakens Romance, One of the Zodiac knights Candace is a saddist.

/ edg ☺ ☭ 14:09, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Trivia cleanup needed

With this edit, I would say this article has crossed a Trivia event horizon of sorts. The subject is notable, but this article is a completely unsourced directory, a trivia list padded with original research, and making it into a Good article would be a near-complete rewrite. I've nominated it as an Article for deletion, even tho it will probably be kept. The article could be rescued by sourcing a dozen or so items and deleting remaining non-notable items. Here are some starting points:

I'm not withdrawing the Afd because I don't think someone is going to do this work. No item appended in the past year has been removed, which leads me to believe there this article has no ongoing editorial oversight. As such, is has become a WP:TRIVIA list to which drive-by editors may freely append unsourced, non-notable items.

I'm removing a few unsourced items that seem unlikely to be notable. Help is needed from someone with expertise in the subject matter, especially with sourcing items and adding narrative. / edg ☺ ☭ 17:17, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Passing mentions

Is this article to list simply anything that briefly mentions SM? While it can be documented that a Saturday Night Live sketch (for example) had an SM theme, does that merit inclusion in this article?

Also, does this article distinguish "Sadism and masochism" from BDSM, because the article BDSM is a better organized list (BDSM#Culture_and_media, even sourced in a few places) that does not dwell on passing mentions. / edg ☺ ☭ 18:32, 14 December 2007 (UTC)