Talk:Sacred Band of Thebes

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What are details of the excavation of their grave? For example, who directed it, when was it done, & where are the findings published? -- llywrch 18:13, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

It was done in the late 1800's. but I do not know by whom. Haiduc 22:18, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Does anybody know where the statement that the band was composed of charioteers and drivers came from? I'm almost certain the band was a hoplite regiment, and the chariot was out of use in Greece by this point. RobthTalk 14:24, 16 February 2006 (UTC)


Contents

[edit] Plato

Hlieberman would like you to know:

"Plato also references the Sacred Band of Thebes once in his "Symposium." A small excerpt: "And if there were only some way of contriving that a state or an army should be made up of lovers and their loves, they would be the very best governors of their own city, abstaining from all dishonour, and emulating one another in honour; and when fighting at each other's side, although a mere handful, they would overcome the world."

--maru (talk) contribs 03:21, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

"They became, in effect, the “crack” force of Greek soldiery"

I am loving this... was it deliberate?

[edit] Too big a change?

Insertformulahere I’ve made some changes to the article. These changes might credibly be seen as too far-reaching. If so, please revert. I wanted just to change one paragraph at a time, but, as in the nature of paragraphs, one thing lead to another. I hope my changes make sense, and that they might inspire other editors to improve the article beyond these changes. I don’t wish to be treading on anybody’s toes. I find myself quite fond of the Sacred Band. It seems that there was previously, in this article, a representation of their grave-monument. And it was removed. What would be the Wiki rquirements of a representation of a well-known monument? MacMurrough 05:53, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pederasty had nothing to do with the Sacred Band of Thebes

Why on Earth do they keep removing my note that the link to the Pederasty in Ancient Greece article deals with a form of homosexuality quite different from the homosexuality that was an integral part of the Band? They weren't pederasts. They were consenting adults (at least, adult by ancient Greek standards...adult enough to be sent off to war) in devoted relationships not as a mentor and his protege, but as comrades...as equals. To link pederasty from this article is misleading, and might cause some to think the Sacred Band of Thebes was nothing more than an army of pedophiles, which couldn't be further from the truth. This link NEEDS to be clarified!

Please provide an academic reference for your contention. Haiduc 03:06, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Logically it makes no sense, Pedastery is between a man and a boy, and how many children do you think they let into an elite fighting unit? For the time period, a warrior who was 16 or so wasn't considered a boy at all, therefore it was NOT pedastery. ~

I have to concur, pederasty in no way connected with the Sacred Band. After looking at several comments on Haiduc's talk page it becomes apparent that other users have mentioned his connection of pederasty to other unrelated topics. In a request for an academic reference, Haiduc did not actually provide one himself. On this basis I'm substituting the word pederast for homosexual. I hope this is the last discussion on the matter. For reference, Xenophon wrote that pederastic relationships should be discontinued when the boy begins to grow a beard. And, in examining the article on pederasty in Ancient Greece, it maintains that pederasty was a practice between adolescent boys and grown men. While there were relationships between older and younger men, I believe it would be the exception in virtually all cases for these relationships to be pederastic. Nudas veritas 10:24, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Source for Thebes being conquered by Sparta in 404

...What is the source for this? Iridius 05:48, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Symposium and the formation of the Sacred Band

This article makes a serious error. Plato's Symposium, in every estimation, was written after the formation of the Sacred Band (though its dramatic date is in the 5th century). The quote from Phaedrus' speech, therefore, cannot have inspired the Sacred Band; instead, the quote was inspired by the Sacred Band. Unfortunately, I don't have a source I can cite for this at the moment, but as soon as I find one, I'll fix the problem. --Akhilleus (talk) 07:22, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

They also had a "don't ask, don't tell" policy... --Quoth nevermore 17:55, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Why is the first sentence written this way?

"...troop of picked soldiers, numbering 150 age-structured which formed..." I realize that this must mean there were 150 young men and 150 older men in the band, but the sentence doesn't make sense. Is age-structured a noun? --Wragge 02:18, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Its someone's bad editing, they have removed everything to do with Homosexuality from this page. ( also if this Homosexuality in the Sacred Band of Thebes was Age-structured or Egalitarian, both sides have yet to prove anything.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.234.148.21 (talk) 09:41, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Plutarch

What does this mean:

"Perish any man who suspects that these men either did or suffered anything unseemly."

Mallerd (talk) 14:43, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I've always wondered about that quote too - I mean, it isn't as if homosexuality was considered unseemly ("disgraceful" in the 1917 Loeb) by contemporaries, and Philip in particular was known for his, um, eclectic tastes. Perhaps Philip was simply referring to their military reputation, and the impressive nature of their last stand - ie, 'the rest of the army cracked and ran, but these chaps fought to the bitter end against overwhelming force.' 68.22.203.72 (talk) 00:27, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Lokhos does not mean "children"

I changed the translation of "lokhos" from "children" to "strike-force." In no way shape or form does lokhos mean children, and "strike-force" was the best I could do. In Homer, lokhos means "ambush party" (or the ambush itself), but since the Sacred Band was a hoplite force I thought "strike-force" might be OK. Other ideas welcome of course. Jack (talk) 17:45, 30 January 2008 (UTC)