User talk:Sa.vakilian/Archive2

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents

Hi

Hi bro. Wikipedia:WikiProject Shi'a Islam is basicly the same as the Iranian notice board. Or does it lack someting? I appreciate your addition to the main page and added some myself. --Striver 11:13, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

One example is Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Shi'a Islam/Biographical articles. Go to the bottom and fill out the "quality" section with one of the appropriate templates. I just added "b-class" to the Ali article, so you can see how i did it. Peace. --Striver 11:22, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
Ah. I don't have that problem... You can solve it by going to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Shi'a Islam and opening each link in a new window by right klicking it, then the other pages will load while you are reading one of them. If you install Firefox and use it instead of explorer, then you can open new windows by klicking the middle mouse button and the new windows will open in tabs instead of new windows. --Striver 11:31, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
Hm, i see... Then maybe we should add a welcome message to guide them through the operation of the project? --Striver 11:42, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
Done! Thanks for helping out in making the project better! Peace. --Striver 11:56, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, im working on that right now.--Striver 12:04, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

about Ali (p.b.u.h)

I can help you with this website http://aqaed.com . It contains references concerning Ibn Taymiyya and his hatred towards Ali (p.b.u.h). I can help you with english articles. I don't contribute much to the arabic version. I'm not used to the Arabic keyboard. Jaber90 16:11, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

re:

yes, i will be proposing something either today or tomorrow ان شاء الله. sorry for the delay.. my wiki time has been temporarily reduced as i am experiencing some hardware difficulties ITAQALLAH 06:39, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

here is my suggestion[1]. it is hidden for now until a solution is reached. i kept the word mawla in arabic and linked it to the Mawla article to accommodate the difference in understanding/translation of the term. i also did not include the last narration, as i have found no authority claiming it is sound, but in minhaaj as-sunnah it is declared to be fabricated. if you can find some authority which claims it is sound, then we can work from there. ITAQALLAH 13:26, 20 September 2006 (UTC)


Itmaam-i-hujjat

Salaam, I just edited this article, you may find it useful. Cheers! TruthSpreaderTalk 05:36, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Salam

Its because i have 4200 articles on my watchlist :P --Striver 17:49, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Hezbollah Intro

Will do. Thanks. I hear Ramadan is coming. Do you say, "have an easy fast"? Elizmr 22:44, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

All set. I think both positions are fairly well stated now. What do you think? Elizmr 00:28, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

re- Salam ! or wa - Salam :)

Hi brother, Salam and good day, I was very much excited to get your message, and really wanted to thank you for your kind advice and being so kind to me. Kind regards/--www.mahdi.ms 18:47, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Regarding the two images

Hi. Regarding the two images you asked me to help delete (Image:Insane shiite.jpg and Image:Shiite.jpg), you can follow the instructions in the orange box at the top of the page WP:PUI (these two images are "no source" ones). If any difficulties arose in the process, please ask me for help. roozbeh 09:26, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Salam
Yoi mean I should put {{subst:nsd}} on those page.--Sa.vakilian 09:31, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
Yes. roozbeh 11:09, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Salam

sorry for responding so late, but i havent been on wikipedia for a long time. the articles you linked are very well written mashallah. i look forward to further cooperation inshallah. khoda hamrahe shoma. Yahussain 20:05, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Pre-Umar contacts with Persia

I suppose you're talking about the year of the embassies, 6 AH? Don't take material from a religious website, take it directly from academic histories or their sources, Tabari, Ibn Ishaq, etc. If you need quotes in English, ask me. I have Ibn Ishaq and the relevant volume of Tabari in English translation. Zora 04:32, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Sorry

Bro, sorry for not answering. I am on a kind of low-level editing, and right now, im on a break. Again, sorry, i will answer when i start editing again. Peace. --Striver 13:32, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Dorud bar šomâ, dar moredeh safheye Qur'ân

Dar talkpage Qur'ân didam šumâ mixâhin "Good Article Nomination" konid. Mixâstam begam ke in safhe nevešteh cizhâi ke "Good Article" Xâhad dâštebâšad. Negâ kardan be un safhe nešun midad ke šiš ciz yek safe xâhad dâštebâšhad ke betune "Good article" bâšad. Artikele Qur'ân in cizhârâ dârad, be qeir az šumâreye panj, ke nevešte artikel bâyad "stable" bâšavad. Felan artikele Qur'ân "stable" nist cun ke dâre ruz be ruz xeiyli avas mišavad.

Bâ Tašakor,

Ķĩřβȳ♥ŤįɱéØ

--Ķĩřβȳ♥ŤįɱéØ 05:19, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Please vote

Please take a look at Wikipedia:Stub types for deletion/Log/2006/October/16. It seems that some people want to remove any reference to Palestine. --Palestine48 15:40, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Re: Palestine-stub

Trouble? Not quite, though I appreciate your concern. You should realise that its not a "vote," but rather an attempt at discussion. In any event, no one wants to delete the template, but rather to make it more accurate (its listing at TfD is a technical issue). There is a Quds day because there is not yet a state called Palestine. Just like you might protest the absence of Palestine instead of pretending that there is one, we shouldn't name the template by what we'd like to be, but rather based on the reality, however unjust it may be. Cheers, TewfikTalk 07:21, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Shi'a

That is why there is a "Importance" section were they can be graded from "low" to "top". Peace. --Striver 10:31, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

On this day

Hi! You can participate in the selection of the "Selected anniversaries" section of the Main Page; here you'll find the information you need. If you have the western dates of historical events you can add them to the article of the correspondent day; for example the ascension of Khomeini to power is listed in the article for February 11. In the case of Islamic calendar events, you can only propose them for the day of the western calendar they correspond this year. If you have an objection or suggestion for some day's selection, comment it in the page of that day's Selected Anniversaries article; here you can start your search. Perhaps we should have some way to list Islamic calendar events. Anyway, I hope I was helpful!--cloviz 02:24, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Uhm, they are not protected for me...Anyway I suggested that you check the page of each day you wish to change (selecting one day from the list of anniversaries); or use the discussion page of each day to comment or suggest something. The following days are carefully watched so you'd get answers soon. I have never suggested anything there so I can't be more helpful than this. Good luck!--cloviz 03:11, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Life under khomeini

Thank you for your message. Yes I also want to be fair/just and NPOV, rational and non-dogmatic. I am sure we will disagree on some things but hope we find "common ground" and improve the article. Cheers --Leroy65X 21:44, 23 October 2006 (UTC)


Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Leroy65X"

Eid mubarak

Eid mubarak :) --Striver 13:44, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Re Hizbollah

No problem w/ that. -- Szvest 17:42, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Wonderful job. -- Szvest 12:19, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

RFC

Hi,

Please contribute to an RFC on the Islam template. See here. thanks. Cuñado - Talk 00:49, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Khomeini

Hello Sa.vakilian Since you've taken an interest in the Khomeini article I thought you might have some opinion on deletions made by Marmoulak

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ruhollah_Khomeini&diff=84176812&oldid=84094269

everything deleted was provided with a source. By no means could the sources be considered pro-IRI --Leroy65X 20:37, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Shi'a map

Hi Sa.vakilian. I like the Image:Shiite-1.jpg map but it's a pity as i see that it was removed by a bot because it disputed status of fair use images. I believe it is more accurate than Image:Muslim distribution.jpg. I don't have Photoshop or an image software but if you have you can recreate it yourself. -- Szvest 10:41, 3 November 2006 (UTC) Wiki me up ®

You can contact the source of the map (from where you had downloaded it) and ask for a permission. You can have a look Wikipedia:Example requests for permission and Wikipedia:Successful requests for permission for more help. -- Szvest 10:58, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Bro, i tried, but the picture is to finely drawn. It takes to much time to edit it in paintshop.--Striver 12:15, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Iran hostage crisis

Thanks for your kind note. I would like to remind you that preview mode lets you see your edits before you save them, and helps reduce clutter in article histories, and that edit summaries help other editors understand the intent of an edit. If you could use both features more, other editors would definitely appreciate it! Happy editing. --Dhartung | Talk 03:24, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

User Patchouli

If the behaviour of the user is tendious than i suggest that the best place to look at the matter would be Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents. We have a similar case somehow here. You may have to present facts which signals tendious editing or non-respect of wikipedia rules and see what other admins would advice. -- Szvest 15:47, 6 November 2006 (UTC) Wiki me up ®

ok

i have been a bit busy of late though my time may free up over the next few days, so i'll try to contribute whenever i can. ITAQALLAH 08:54, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Signpost

To get weekly deliveries of the Signpost, add your name here. Thanks for helping out with Islam's entry on ARCAID! Dev920 (check out this proposal) 08:24, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Murder

"Islam gives license for muslims to kill reviler who reviles deliberately and understands Islam well." Arrow740 06:15, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

shia guild

Striver wrote on the muslim guild: "btw, there is not Shi'a and Sunni Guilds, they were renamed some while ago. --Striver 22:54, 11 November 2006 (UTC)". Given he is the only real contributor, I figured that either consensus had been established, or that he has finally given up on his creation. Tell me, why do you object to this merging? Dev920 (Please vote here) 17:40, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Mmm, I think you're going to need to look at this:User_talk:Striver#Shia_and_Sunni_wikiprojects

Shi'a view of Ali

Hi, I want to know why do you revert this part.[2] I think it clarifies Shi'a view well. --Sa.vakilian 09:57, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Sorry for the delay in responding, I have been very busy. If you disagree with any of my edits on Ali, I suggest you change them back. I very rarely actually write information into the article, but I always check it and often revert because over time Shi'a editors tend to make it drift into a very biased article. Sometimes extremely blatant POV gets inserted and I seem to be the only non-Shi'a person watching the page. You don't need to talk about your re-addition of my reverts, because I expect it to go around a few times before we use the talk page. If we discussed every edit in detail it would become a ridiculous situation. Cuñado - Talk 04:21, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Islam familiarity

I'm sorry, but my familiarity with Islam should not be relevant on Wikipedia. If I add factual and referenced information to Islamic articles, that is all that should matter. Dev920 (Please vote here) 11:43, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

I did not mean you take my reply to mean I am ignorant. I have a deep knowledge of Islam and surrounding issues - but I am not willing to explain what, why, or how because an editor demands my credentials. It doesn't matter. Dev920 13:45, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I was going to let Striver do it all. They're his projects after all. As long as he does actually do it, I don't mind in the slightest. Dev920(Mind voting here?) 15:55, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

You helped choose Islam as this week's WP:AID winner

 Thank you for your support of the Article Improvement Drive.
This week Islam was selected to be improved to featured article status.
Hope you can help.

Dev920 13:23, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Guardianship of the Islamic Jurists

I added "Misunderstandings" to Guardianship of the Islamic Jurists article. Farhoudk 20:00, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Haj-Mirza Hassan Roshdieh

Hi SaVa--I hope you are well. Someone asked me to look at this stub and I am not familiar with this individual. Could you take a look and see if you think he is notable? Elizmr 16:29, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

THANKS. Elizmr 16:54, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Salam

Salam,

khoobi agha? mizooni?

een term bichaareh shodeem. pedaremaan ro hesaabi dar avordan.

I will be back again.--Zereshk 02:36, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

RFC

Comment here please. Cuñado - Talk 17:28, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Re: Judaism

Dear Sa.vakilian, If you are interested in Judaism, I suggest you read the Wikipedia article on it. It is extremely dense and well written and there is much more knowledge in the article than I can probably tell you off the top of my head. Thanks for your interest. --GHcool 20:45, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Shi'a again

Hi. I couldn't figure out how you were voting. Could you please clarify here about your preference. Cuñado - Talk 06:38, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Re Protest against deletion

Salam

Please look at this votoing for deletion: [3] It began in 26 Dec. and ended in 31 dec. Just 6 person participate in it. Two of them voted to keep, two of them voted to weak delete. So I don't think there's any consensus about deletion. What should we do? --Sa.vakilian 03:42, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi Sa.vakilian. What i suggest is that you refer to DRV, list your reasons why you think the AfD should be relisted or overturned. We have closed some articles before 5 days. We also deleted articles w/ a high proportion of "keep" votes (see Articles for deletion/List of dictators). -- Szvest - Wiki me up ® 17:58, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Shi'a POV issues

SV, you may have grown up "knowing" a great many things, but they are not necessarily things that an academic historian would accept. You may feel these things deeply, but that doesn't mean that they should be stated as fact, rather than Shi'a POV.

As for the Sunni view of Yazid article -- Striver has worked that over thoroughly and turned it into a Shi'a article in disguise. He has combed Shi'a sites for any mention of Sunni historians taking a negative view of Yazid I, and entered all that in the article. Since Sunnis don't care that much about the issue, there has been no Sunni activity to bring the article back into balance. I have not had the time or the energy to counter Striver's energetic distortion of history.

What you may not understand is that ALL the early Islamic history we know is contained in texts that weren't written down until the early Abbasid period. The Abbasids overthrew the Umayyads as usurpers and claimed the caliphate as the senior line of the Banu Hashim. Therefore none of the Abbasid historians, Sunni or Shi'a, have anything good to say of the Umayyads. After all, it was necessary to justify the overthrow. Of course you're going to find Sunnis saying nasty things about the Umayyads. That doesn't mean that they're true.

After looking over the Abi Meknaf book you like so much, I moved it into the Shi'a external links. It is not a reliable text. Zora 11:56, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Isarig

Have a look at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Incivility, disruptive editing, and stalking-like behavior from Isarig Abu ali 20:33, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

SPAM #11

A deletion review in which you participated has been relisted: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rafed.net (2nd nomination).
brenneman 02:10, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Re: Battle of Karbala

I'll have a look(need to run now) and comment what I think. Cheers, --Aminz 02:37, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

i will try to have a look at some point, but i am currently focusing on the Islam article so i can't guarantee anything. ITAQALLAH 17:11, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Sa.vakilian, I'll try to help. --Aminz 08:44, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Seyed, to be honest with you I am confused. Shoma vaghean harchi tooye Tabari neveshteh ghabool dari? hatta dastane Satanic verses? Tabari oun rou naghl mikoneh. Valy taghriban hameye musalmoonaye emrooz be soorate kamel radesh mikonan. But the source of my confusion is not this. The source you want to use is surely a primary source, let's say as reliable as Qur'an. Valy hanooz nemisheh mostaghim azash estefadeh kard.

Seyed, in verseni ke inja revert shod [4] yek academic POV ast. Khoob, misheh ezafash kard, valy fekr konam Zora migeh ke academic ha lozooman hame injoori fekr nemikonan. Khoob, mitoonim begim har ki chejoori fekr mikoneh. --Aminz 09:49, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Seyed, I am going for a trip tomorrow and will be away for a couple of days. I suggest everybody takes some rest from this article. It is necessary to do so for controversial articles. We can then come back later. Cheers, --Aminz 10:46, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Hallo Sa. vakilian; it is not my intention in WP to follow or to participate in such diskussions since it is far away from being profound. Please do realise, that Abu Mikhnaf as a main source has been quoted by not Shi'ite historians as at-Tabari and al-Baladhuri. Thank you for your interest. Orientalist from the de: WP


Dear Sa.vakilian, I am trying to make references from books of sonni brothers. Farhoudk 18:58, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

it is not the question "to make references from books of sonni (!) brothers" (!) but from the the results of research as such....(orientalist) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.173.147.127 (talk) 23:43, 5 January 2007 (UTC).

Reliable

SV, have you had any academic training in history? I'm wondering, because we seem to be talking right past each other.

I'm NOT rejecting Muslims, or Shi'a, as sources. I'm saying that you have to use them carefully and ask the right questions. It's not black-and-white, all true or completely false. Suppose we have a manuscript that can be reliably dated to 1200 CE, and it purports to describe things that happened in 700 CE, for which there is otherwise no record. A historian would want to be very careful in using that manuscript as evidence for what happened in 700 CE. It's possible that there were intermediate manuscripts that were destroyed. Or perhaps there weren't. It's also possible, but extremely unlikely, that oral tradition had preserved something for 500 years. Oral tradition changes over time. However, the 1200 manuscript is very good evidence for what people believed in 1200! It all depends on what questions you ask.

Historians also try to use bits of evidence in combination, like a detective solving a crime. If A and B are political enemies and have entirely different views of a certain event in history, the area where they overlap, the stuff that "everyone knows" and can't be fudged -- that at least is evidence of common belief and possibly historical reality.

Because the methods of history are improving all the time (for instance, now we can use genetic markers, per Cavalli-Sforza) a historian using up-to-date methods may come to different conclusions than people using older methods. Modern historians are also on the alert for religious or ideological presuppostions that distort perceptions. No one can ever be quite free of them, but one can try. For those reasons, the work of the older Muslim historians is not accepted as "true," but as something to be investigated and sifted. Tabari is accepted for some things and rejected as mistaken on others.

You seem to me to be working from a very black and white model. Sources are either trustworthy, and to be accepted in toto, or untrustworthy, and to be rejected. It's more of a spectrum, with most sources in the middle.

I like some of your recent changes to the article. I've just been very busy yesterday and today (one of my cats is ill) and haven't had a chance to try a rewrite. Zora 08:53, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Org Chart for Hezbollah

Take a look at and let me know what you think. mceder (u t c) 10:12, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Yeah you are right, and since the information itself can not be copyrighted, but the presentation can - this could be a problem. On the other hand, the court decisions, at least in the US, has shown that significant creativity in the presentation must be present for it to be copyrighted.. I dont think this flow chart would be called significant creativity. I recreated the flowchart myself in Open Office draw based on the information contained in the book so I think it is okay. The "best" way to find out is to add it to articles and see the reactions of others. If it is an issue, I am sure it will be removed and the image deleted quickly enough :) mceder (u t c) 17:13, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Eid Mobarak

Eid bar shoma ham mobarak.

Dar morede primary source, oun fahm shakhsiyeh man az in page bood [5]. mitoonid az baghiye beporsin va edit rou bargardoonin.

Shad bashin, Amin. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Aminz (talk • contribs) 10:38, 8 January 2007 (UTC).

Salam. I would like to ask you, if you can, to monitor Jaakobou's edits. He is inserting too much POV to the Lebanon article and no one is saying anything. I do not have time to contribute much to Wikipedia. Please try to resolve the problem. Embargo 16:58, 10 January 2007 (UTC)


Dear Sa.vakilian, I would like to extend my best wishes for you and warmest greetings to all humankind around the world for Christmas and Eid ul-Adha as well as for brotherhood day Eid al Qadir. Farhoudk 18:21, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Komak!

Salam o Dorood!

During last month I worked on this article. I would like to invite you to see the article, comment on it and help in improving it. I would like to invite you to see the parts on Iranian culture in particular. Long live Iran! Sina Kardar 19:23, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Salam! mamnoonam az iad-dashte taan. man taghreeban ba nokaatee ke gofteed ashna hastam. vali moshkel in hast ke man be manaabeh dastrasee nadaram. iani mahdood hastam be internet. in aslan khoob nist. man baiad baraie har jomleh, iek reference era'eh bedam.

dar morede tareef e vajeh ha, man sai kardam iek tareef era'eh bedam va niz tedade zeeiadee maghaleh ro niz zameemeh kardam ke neshoon mideh rooie terminology hanooz tavafoq e nazar vojood nadareh.

dar har soorat, ageh baz vaghtee azadee peida kardam, in maghaleh ro baz-nevisi mikonam va nokaate shoma ro vared mikonam. az zahmatee ke keshidid mamnoonam.

rastee do ta kare digeh ham hast: Religious intellectualism in Iran and Religious traditionalism in Iran. albatteh tazeh dar marhaleie ebtedaaiee hast. be nazar mireseh ke ettelaate shoma kheili khoob hast. shaiad behtar basheh ke in maghalat ro afradee mesle shoma takmil konan. albatteh nemidoonam aia be ketab va maghaleh ha dastrasee dareed ia na? chon wikipedia por az afrade eslam-setiz hast ke in maghalat ro morede hamleh gharar midan. va lazem hast baraie har jomleh reference dashteh basheem. Sina Kardar 09:10, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

I just added a brief comparison between Khomeini and Broujerdi. Also between Beheshti and Mesbah and Motahhari. I think there is no need to mention Hajjarian and reformists in this article. A better place for Hajjarian is Religious intellectualism in Iran. Also I wrote big part of the article based on Iranian sources to avoid Western POV. Sina Kardar 13:20, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Moddate zeeiadee hast ke man mikhastam in maghaleh ro benevisam, vali daqiqan bekhatere hamoon nokteiee ke shoma gofteed (iani seeiasee kari) in kar ro be takheer andakhtam. alan ham bekhatere jelogeeree az seeiasee karee az chandeen wikipedian e irani va moderate davat kardam ke in ro bekhoonan va edit konan. man ham sai kardam az zabane technical baraie maghaleh estefadeh konam ta sathe maghaleh paieen naiad. kare digeiee az daste man bar nemeeiad va tanhaiee nemitoonam keifeeiate maghaleh ro bishtar bala bebaram. Sina Kardar 13:33, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Basheh hatman. nemidoonestam Zereshk dobareh bargashteh. Sina Kardar 19:16, 12 January 2007 (UTC)


Nikah Misyar in need of an expert

I've tagged this page for expert attention as it has been sat with a "Wikify" tag for ages but really needs the disputes settled before that can take place. Can you help? Madmedea 11:28, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

A minor mistake

Salam. How are you?

I found that you write "User talk:FayssalF: Islam in Al-Andalus and North Africa." in Wikipedia:WikiProject Iran/Expert Wikipedians in Iran-related issues so I moved it to Wikipedia:WikiProject Islam/Expert Wikipedians in Islamic issues. --Sa.vakilian 18:09, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Salam Sa.vakilian. Thanks for that. I didn't pay attention. -- Szvest - Wiki me up ® 16:57, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Two Articles in need of your attention

There are two entries at Wikipedia, which have falsely created -- they are Turco-Persian and Turko-Persian Tradition. Both entries are factitious. I have requested the entries to be deleted. My reasons are:

The term Turko-Persian Tradition (or Turco-Persian) does not exists academically and it is a factitious entry! Check the Encyclopaedia Iranica to confirm -- The correct name for that culture is the Persianate culture not the "Turko-Persian". Turkophones (mostly of mixed race and Persianized in culture) only spoke in Turkic dialects and were in the military. That is not enough participation in creating and forming the culture to deserve the name "Turko-Persian Tradition" – This is misinformation. All the elements in that area, which have to do with tradition and culture, were drawn from the Iranian culture (Persian, Kurdish, Azari, Baluchi, Tajik, Luri, Gilaki, Talishi, Mazandarani, etc.), and the Islamic faith, not much Turkic elements (like shamanism, yurts etc.) were incorporated in. That is what makes the name "Turko-Persian" an imaginary one and therefore the entry should be deleted.

Any contributions would greatly appreciated. Bā Sepās Surena 02:28, 17 January 2007 (UTC)


(If you have time) Please vote in the survey on this proposed move

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Valiyat-e_faqih_%28book_by_Khomeini%29#Survey

Valiyat-e faqih (book by Khomeini) → Hokumat-e Islami : Valiyat-e faqih (book by Khomeini)

Thanx--Leroy65X 23:11, 23 January 2007 (UTC)


Well, if other voters want to use the english translation we could change it to Islamic Government: Guardianship of the jurist. I just want the article to use the book title everyone else uses, whether in english or persian.

How about first we vote whether or not to change the article to Hokumat-e Islami : Valiyat-e faqih (book by Khomeini), and then vote whether to use persian or english, i.e. whether to have the title Hokumat-e Islami : Valiyat-e faqih (book by Khomeini) or Islamic government: guardianship of the jurist (book by Khomeini) ? --Leroy65X 16:06, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Edit summaries

Salam. When you make edit summaries, make sure you have them like this:

  • 06:19, 24 January 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:Ruhollah Khomeini (→Trimming Inaccurate Verbage - I deleted irrelivant stub)

rather than this:

  • 06:19, 24 January 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:Ruhollah Khomeini (→I deleted irrelivant stub)

It's easier to see your comments this way. :-) Cheers, Khoikhoi 04:30, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

In the news

You'r welcome. There's always misunderstanding and biased errors about topics dealing with these issues, but very few editors to notice and correct them. Cheers. CG 10:41, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned fair use image (Image:Shiite-1.jpg)

Thanks for uploading Image:Shiite-1.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable under fair use (see our fair use policy).

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Imam Ali's picture

Salam alaykum . Kayfa anta? I found that you put picture of Imam Ali in your user page. I just want to mention you that this is an imaginary portrait.--Sa.vakilian 02:43, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi Sa.vakilian. Yeah :) but i do like it. -- Szvest - Wiki me up ® 10:31, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
I'm happy that you like Imam Ali but I just want to remind that's what Iranians have added to Islam. --Sa.vakilian 10:42, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
I just don't understand why some Muslims do not like Ali. I am not a devout Muslim as i don't practice but most Moroccans respect Ali more than you think. Ali, Hassan and Mohammed Ali are widely used as names in Morocco indeed. -- Szvest - Wiki me up ® 10:52, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Shiite-Sunni distribution map

Salam.

What should we do about this map:Image:Shiite-1.jpg. A robot put this message in my talk page:User talk:Sa.vakilian#Orphaned fair use image (Image:Shiite-1.jpg)--Sa.vakilian 10:48, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

I suggest you consult Wikipedia talk:Image use policy and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Fair use to get a broader opinion. -- Szvest - Wiki me up ® 10:57, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Re:your notes

Ba Salam va tashakkor:

  • About Hezbollah, you are probably right. I don't know Tufeili and not much about Hezbollah. What I wrote was just my understanding of the article I refered to. Apparently I was misunderstood. I thought that we had two groups in Iran:
  • A: Ayatollah Khomeini + Mohtashami and leftists which had more influence initially.
  • B: Ayatollah Khamenei + his team that are now more influential than Mohtashami et al.

I don't know much about the issue and I think your arguments are plausible. About History of Fundamentalism in Iran, I will think and write to you below. Thanks agaian. Sina Kardar 13:08, 29 January 2007 (UTC)


Re:your note

Be sapaas e faravan az vaghtee ke gozashteed. Man nazar e khodam ro be tarteeb e shomareh minevisam:

  • 1. About terminology I agree with you that there is a problem with the terminology. This problem also exist in the literature. I mentioned it shortly at the beginning of the article. I also wrote a note in the talk page about that. All these terms are used in academic circles. There is no consensus on the terminology. Please see a set of articles by Javad Tabatabaei and others at the end of the page (external links). I tried to divide fundamentalists in Iran into two groups: One groups is "familiar" with western philosophy and borrows some ideas from western history (Imam Khomeini institute in Qom where western philosophy is taught next to fiqh etc is an example). The other group is purely traditional and emerged from seminaries. We can name them A and B. I am not happy with the terms either: At the beginning I spent a long time to find out a good terminology with no success. Then I thought it is better to start with some thing and improve it afterwards. I am not happy with the word fundamentalism either, nor with neo-fund, neo-con, and conservative. I am not happy with Islamism either. Neo-fundamentalism simply means a new version of fundamentalism. I borrowed the term from Hossein Nasr. Still not happy. There is no Neo-con in Iran in its American sense.
  • 2. As I explained above. I did not make any term by my own. The criteria behind the two groups fund and neo-fund is their familiarity with western thought. Neo-fund borrowed ideas like making propaganda from the west. They have some marxist influence etc.

There are some statements in the article like "creative fundamentalism". I agree with your point. I kept them in the article for the sake of completeness.

  • 3.This is a very interesting point. We definitely need to cover it.
  • 4.This is implicitly in the article but I think it must be mentioned clearly. This is a shortcomming of the article.
  • 5. This is certainly included in the article in several sections. The so called neo-fundamentalists in many occasions use the product of modern time. This was also one of my criteria to separate neo-fund from fundamentalists. The latter avoids the product of modernity and modern tools.
  • 6. About the accuracy of the statement, I can only refer you to the source. About connections between Mesbah and Fallahian I think your idea might be perfectly right. But I do not think that "Neo-fundamentalism" has originated from Mesbah. I have read that Soroush also rejected this idea. Therefore Fallahian and Mehbah may follow a similar ideology and use similar tools without having any direct organizational connections with eachother. Darbareie Eslami: Eslami, Legenhausen, Ramin va Molana va chand nafar e digeh az in nazar mohem hastand ke in afrad pish-zamineh haie ajeeb va gheire addee daran. in afrad parvaresh iafteie farnage gharbi ia maseehi va gheire hastand. nazdik boodan in afrad be neo-fund ha mitooneh baraie kasee ke mikhad in jaraian ro befahmeh amoozandeh basheh.
  • 7.Man Hassan Bokhari ro nemishnasam. Moshkel in hast ke man mikhastam iek joori in mozoo iahoodeeiat ro pooshesh bedam. va moshakhas konam ke masalan felan gorooh ba iahoodeeiat moshkel nadare. felan gorooh saket hast va nazare mosbat ia manfi nemideh va felan gorooh nesbat be iahoodi ha mosbat negar hast.

When I started this article I knew this article will be attacked by some Islamophobes. I knew that if I leave this issue uncovered they will come and cover it in a biased way. Perhaps you know these users very well. Unfortunately most of these users are familiar with minor figures like Bokhari from the media, while they have never heard anything about Motahhari and Beheshti etc.

  • 8.The problem with identity is a major issue. some experts defined fundamentalism simply as identity-ism. I am not saying that fundamentalists sat together one day and decided we want to destroy that place nor I am denying the fact that many works in Iran is not properly planned. But if you look at what they do at the very large scale it is clear that there is a fight over identity in the background. Also I did not include my own personal view. The photo about Taliban is only there to give an example. I am not insisting on keeping the photo. It might be helpful but is not essential for undestanding the idea.
  • 9.As I mentioned I was not writing an article for a journal. It was for wikipedia and it will be for sure attacked by many fundamentalists and Islamophobes in future. They will include many material from media and newspapers and no one will be able to revert them as they can easily provide source for their claims. See for instance how many material in Khomeini's article and other article are based on articles by Amir Taheri. I do believe this article must satisfy completeness. It means it should be written in a way that if an Islamophobe or fundamentalist encountered the article will see his POV included in the article.
  • 10. Finally, I neither love or hate fundamentalists, nor modernists or traditionalists, seculars, atheists etc. I tried to show that many of the so called fundamentalists are nice, intelligent, create art, write books, make films etc. I tried to show that many non Iranians are behind the movement. I think I spent a very very long time on this article and it does not reflect my POV. The article is supported by more than 100 sources. Of course I never claimed this article is perfect. No one else spent much time on the article and no article will become great with out collaborations in wikipedia.

Also: I believe the article need to have a very simple language with a lot of examples and photos. It needs to be accessible to non Iranians and non experts. And the best way to keep it away from attacks is the following: we need to have a comprehensive article and accept inclusionism. I also tried to include the definition of fundamentalism and its root from the point of view of fundamentalists.

The article is there and I invite you and others to rewrite it. For the very simpel reason that I wrote almost everything, it is not free from bias. I think you are knowledgable and I invite you to add info or edit the article, delete my writings etc. I still think the article has a much higher quality in comparison to similar articles that we have for other countries or for the muslim world. Ba sepaas e faravan. Sina Kardar 14:17, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

That's OK. Take your time. Sina Kardar 16:13, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Ashura Article

السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركات

Regarding the Ashura article, from my (Sunni perspective) the page does not give a balanced point of view. The day is significant to all Muslims, Sunni and Shi'a, but if someone had to read the article, they would not understand that there are two points of view. For instance, statements like "Commemoration of Ashura is not a festival, but rather a sad event for both Shi'as and Sunni Muslims" are misleading. To me and other Sunni's I know, the day was proclaimed to be a holy day by our prophet SAW because of all the positive things that happened on the day. Sunni's are encouraged to spend on their families (gifts etc.). Yes, a sad event did occur on the day, but it is the general opinion of Sunni's I know that this does not detract from the positive events that occurred on the day. Furthermore, the "popular customs" section does not apply to Sunni's but the article gives an impression that it does.

A fair approach to both Sunni and Shi'a would be to separate the article into separate Shi'a and Sunni sections. Yusufk 12:55, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Re: Are you well?

Unfortunately the article appeared very different then than it does now. Another major factor is the name, which frames the contents in an improper manner. Perhaps I will amend my statement to better reflect these points. TewfikTalk 04:47, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

I feel the same, and wrote my answer on my talk page and on the AFD page. Just want to underline that some of the issues reflected by the old title deserve an article IMO, but the current content does not fulfill that purpose. Elizmr 18:11, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

(If you have time) please vote in this survey on another proposed move

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Valiyat-e_faqih_%28book_by_Khomeini%29#New_Vote:_Should_title_be_in_Persian_or_English_Translation.3F

from Valiyat-e faqih (book by Khomeini) → to either

Hokumat-e Islami : Valiyat-e faqih (book by Khomeini)

or

Islamic government: guardianship of the jurist (book by Khomeini)


Thanx again, --Leroy65X 17:59, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Anti-Iranianism

Hi Sa.vakilian. There is some discussion on Talk:Anti-Iranianism about future directions for the article, and some such as GabrielF (who put it up for deletion) are proposing some major changes. You may be interested in taking part in the discussions. Cheers. --70.48.243.54 01:19, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Re:your note

Salam

Great suggestion. One point irrelevant to our discussion: It is very useful to have an article on Shia fundamentalism. However we have to be careful and not to mix it with the fundamentalsim in Iran. I have several reasons for that:

  • 1. Shia fundamentalism in Iraq, Lebonan and Pakistan is known as terrorism fortunately or unfortunately. And mixing it with the Iranian one reflects very negative on the image of our country.
  • 2. As once soroush said: Iranian philosophy has never been so political as it is today. This means fundamentalism in Iran has to be defined and discussed in the context of Iranian politics. (which makes it different from Shia fundamentalism in Iraq and Lebanon)
  • 3. Fundamentalism in Iran as you said before has many organizations and highly equipped schools where western philosophy is taught. This is not the case with Shia fundamentalism in Iraq and Lebanon as far as I know. I think some of them are several decades behind of Iranians in terms of theoretical works.

I will help you in the talk page to reach a good definition. It is good to invite people of different background to comment on the issue. Take care. Sina Kardar 09:23, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

About your note on my talk page:
  • Yes, I want to address the issue at a long time scale and I agree with the way you put it. But as I said before in wikipedia we can only work if we satisfy two things:
  • 1. Survival of the article
  • 2. High quality

If you follow what happened to the article User:Farhoudk made on religious democracy, you see my point. His article had a good quality but a low survival. I think we need to be intelligent and use our experience. I have clear evidence that our article has a high survival and now we can increase its quality. There are issues in the article that are not neccessary when it comes to quality but they are necessary when it comes to the survival of the article against attacks. I am sure when an islamophobe or a user with extreme anti Iran POV sees the article, he/she will not have any desire to attack the article. This is the function of those "un-necessary ponits" that are mentioned in the article, to my mind. About neo-fundamentalism or neo-conservatism I have to say that I don't see it as a big deviation from main stream fundamentalism in Iran. I think they just use new tools for the same goals. Sina Kardar 11:19, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Template:Islam in Iran

Interesting. Farhoudk 15:36, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Re: your note

That's fine. Take care. Sina Kardar 17:30, 2 February 2007 (UTC)


Iran Rev

We can use the approach which was used in Hezbollah article. First we add whatever we find in the article. Then whe it reached to 117 kb we shorten it and made 8 new articles.--Sa.vakilian 18:53, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Leroy65X"

OK we'll use that approach. Leroy65X 19:05, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Intro to Iran Rev article

did some more rewritng and left note for you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Iranian_Revolution#Intro --Leroy65X 17:33, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Re: Hezbollah topic

Thank you for following up with me on this. I appreciate the care you put into that article from a neutral POV, which I find refreshing. I'll check back frequently to admire your work.

Spragc 19:33, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Image from Ayatollah khomeini

Salam. I saw you've uploaded an image [6] and claimed that you're the you're the author of this work. Really!!! There's a site which says we can use its contents. I prefer to use its photos.[7]--Sa.vakilian 09:44, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Baa Dorud. The image in question was not made by me, and obviously I made mistake in choosing the appropriate licensing attribution. However, the mistake is being rectifies, and the correct licensing tag in being installed. Regards Surena 10:12, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Farsi

Do you familiar with Persian language.--Sa.vakilian 03:49, 9 February 2007 (UTC) Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Leroy65X"

I've read a great deal about the revolution, but alas, from English sources. I do not know farsi. --Leroy65X 15:27, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Unfortunately most of historic texts which shows Islamic republic from inside POV are in Persian.--Sa.vakilian 15:31, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Leroy65X"
I assume you mean most non-POV texts on the Iran Revolution are in Persian. I have and will try to use some pro-government (like Algar who has translated some of Khomeini's work) as well as government-critical English-language sources. --Leroy65X 15:52, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
I agree, there is a great deal of source material in farsi that has not been translated into English. --Leroy65X 17:08, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Your photos

Ba dorud.

Although this massage may bother you but I should tell you that I put distributed tag on some of the photos which you've uploaded comprising:[8], [9], [10], [11], [12] and [13] .

I put this tag on these images whether I like them or not.--Sa.vakilian 06:28, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Many thanks for bringing to my attention. I have corrected the licensing tags and summaries, after checking my records of their sources. However, you still be able to dispute the sources, by placing a dispute tag, to be checked by administrators - but please do not remove the current tags. Bā Sepās - Surena 07:18, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Battle of Karbala

My job is almost finished. Please take a look at the article. Farhoudk 19:12, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Movement of 15 Khordad

Keep on the good work. Take care. Sina Kardar 18:59, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Bazargan

Dear Sa.vakilian, my english is not so good but I will do what I can. I have something due friday and I don't spend much time on wikipedia now. I hope it would be okay if I can do that after my deadline. Hope everything is going well with you and take care Brother. --Aminz 10:08, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Iranian response

Hey, great job on the Iranian section in Plans for strikes against the Iranian nuclear program! Let's just hope it doesn't come to pass ; ) Joshdboz 11:54, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Safavid Dynasty

Salam. Yes, I agree with your edits so far. Totally agree with top part, except you might want to change independent Iranian state to Iranian empire, as that was part of the consensus. Also, the background of Safavi order has lower priority than founder section, because the page is devoted to Safavid Dynasty, and the founder of Dynasty was Ismail, who was of Safavi order. So it should first introduce the founder, then about his background. But in general, I agree with your balanced edit. Thanks for doing this. Atabek 17:25, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Actually, ignore my opinion on swapping background and founder sections, it looks good the way it is. Thanks. Atabek 17:28, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
I think you should move to Culture section only the second sentence "The collection of his poems ...", and add the reference [11] back to the end of sentence "...Khatai.", but leave the first shortened as "Shah Ismail is also known as poet under a nickname of Khatai". I think it's fair to indicate in the "Founder" section that he was a poet, the details we can move to culture section.
Another note:
Culture flourished under Safavid patronage. Shah Ismail I himself wrote most of his poems in Azerbaijani, as well as in Persian and Arabic, while Shah Tahmasp was a painter. Shah Abbas II was known as a poet, writing Turkic verse with the pen name of Tani.[12].
You may want to change both "Azerbaijani" and "Turkic verse" to say "Azeri Turkic" or "Azerbaijani Turkic". Let's say:
Culture flourished under Safavid patronage. Shah Ismail I himself wrote poems primarily in Azeri Turkic under a pen-name of Khatai. The collection of his poems in Azeri Turkic [11] were published as a Divan, while few Persian and Arabic verses of his are also known. His son, Shah Tahmasp was a painter, while their descendant Shah Abbas II was known also a poet, writing Azeri Turkic verses under the pen name of Tani [12].
Thanks.Atabek

Homa Darabi

I think the information is insufficient."Dr. Homa Darabi after 50-lashes, punishment for violation of sharia. Darabi had attended a family gathering were men other than her father and brother were present." As I know there are too many mixed party in Iran and if government wants to punish all of them, then it may include more than 20 million persons. At least I was present in some of them when I was child. Thus there should be happened something worse like drinking alcohol, etc. Furthermore there isn't such punishment in Islam for mixed party.--Sa.vakilian 19:25, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

I think the Dr. Homa Darabi would say "something worse" was Darabi's activism for equal rights for women! We don't know what the full story was I guess. I think we should either have the caption say:
"Dr. Homa Darabi after 50-lashes, punishment for violation of sharia. Darabi says she was punished for attended a family gathering were men other than her father and brother were present."
or just shorten it. "Dr. Homa Darabi after 50-lashes, punishment for violation of sharia. --Leroy65X 21:25, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
[Reply to: I disagree with you. We put photograph which show hanging or flogging without enough description ...]
What is "enough description" Sa.vakilian? Give us (what you consider) the non-POV caption. It is wrong to eliminate an image because some will have a bad impression of the IRI. What did the Imam say? Do "not fear to be called old-fashioned" by unbelievers. --Leroy65X 19:15, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
I am going to put the image back with the non-POV caption "example of women punished for violating sharia with 50-lashes" --Leroy65X 16:42, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Safavid

I think your edit with regards to Safavid was constructive. Although the later Safavids probably used Persian as their primary language. Specially after the relocation to Esfahan. But I'll wait for the opinion of others, but I like the current edits. If others accept it, then the better. If not, then I guess we need to build more concensus. But thanks for getting involved in the article. --alidoostzadeh 04:55, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi. I think that we should reflect the role of both languages in the life of Safavids. I don't think downplaying the role of either will be justified. And I agree with your edits so far, they make good sense. I will only suggest some minor corrections later on the talk of the article. Regards, Grandmaster 05:55, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
Thanks. I think we both just want to provide accurate information for readers. Grandmaster 06:03, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Patchouli stuff

I see you have had problems with Patchouli's POV editing as well, such as at Mutaween, where Patchouli simply removed your disputed tag despite the fact that there was a dispute. These things must be noted. Feel free to contribute to the current ANI, or you can just reserve your say for the ArbCom itself. I will notify you when it begins; I aim to start it up within the next 24 hours. I have some deadlines to meet outside of WP that need to be taken care of first, then I need to read up more on the ArbCom process, but after these things I will start it. The Behnam 06:02, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

One thing we need for ArbCom is evidence that we have tried resolve the dispute previously. I believe that despite the lack of RFC, etc, there have been good efforts to resolve the dispute. Right now I have [14], [15], [16], [17] on hand, and all of them show that Patchouli is not receptive to discussion and negotiation. I believe there are more, so if there are some that I have missed, please post them on my talk page. I want to start the ArbCom soundly, and this part is particularly important. The Behnam 21:49, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

translation

Hi That translation you requested is rough because the first sentence is the size of a normal English paragraph. It seems you did most of the job though and I gave it a shot (although my interest in wikipedia is with regards to history).

According to his commandment to Bazargan: "Respected Engineer Bazargan. Based the recommendations of Revolutionary Council, and in accordance with the religious rights and legal rights which originated from the vote of overwhelming majority of Iranian nation for leadership of the movement which has been represented in the vast gatherings and wide demonstrations in total area of Iran and because of my utmost trust on your solid faith in holy school of Islam and my knowledge of your precedent in Islamic and national endeavors, I appoint you. This appointment was taken without taking into consideration your relationship with any parties and dependence in especial group and was taken in order for formation of temporary government to arrange organizing of country affairs and especially perform a referendum and refer to public vote of nation about turning the country into Islamic republic and formation of "Establishment council" from the representatives of people to approve of constitution of new regime and on the basis this new constitution, the election of representatives of parliament of nation. It is necessary that you appoint and introduce the members of the temporary government as soon as possible in concordance with the conditions I have clarified. Government and military officials and citizens of the country are urged to cooperate fully with your temporary government and adhere to reach the goals of the holy revolution and establish order to the affairs of the country. At this sensitive juncture of history, I praise and ask God for your success and that of the temporary government.’’ Ruhollah Al-Musavi al-Khomeini

I do not have time right now to refurbish the translation, but I think you can take it from here. --alidoostzadeh 17:34, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Your suggestion

Thank you for your suggestion. I would welcome any contribution to WP, as long as it is compliant with WP:RULES. BTW, we don't WP:OWN articles here, so you don't need to ask. Article's Talk page is a good place to start. Thanks. ←Humus sapiens ну? 22:02, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Tarjomeh

I pasted it on the talk page. bebin chetoreh.--Zereshk 00:46, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Geert Wilders

Please see the section I added on racism. I think anti-Muslim racism has not been properly covered in wikipedia. There is no category for Islamophobes.Sina Kardar 10:41, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

That's fine. take your time. There is no urgent issue. Just to let you know about Geert Wilders and Ben Bot. Take a look at them when you have time in future. Take care. Sina Kardar 11:42, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

What should we do now?

Please look at [18] and tell me what should we do now? --Sa.vakilian 03:41, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

The appropriate place should be Wikipedia:Requests for comment/User conduct especially that the concerns have been brought at the user in question's talkpage. -- FayssalF - Wiki me up ® 10:31, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Re: Community ban

Sure, I'll check it out. The only problem is that I've gotten into conflicts with him in the past, so I don't think I can consider myself neutral on this. Khoikhoi 04:50, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Done. Khoikhoi 05:02, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Re:

Thanks, for telling me, let him do a checkuser those aren't me, :-) Artaxiad 08:29, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Battle of Karbala

Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_karbala#Impact_on_the_Literature Farhoudk 11:02, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Iranian noticeboard

This neutral note was a good idea. Bishonen | talk 12:36, 20 February 2007 (UTC).

Iranian revolution - Khomeini pronouncement

Does the Khomeini translation sound good in English? yes, but the first sentence is very long and should have some comas in it. Do you want me to add them and put the quotation in the quotation section? --Leroy65X 17:50, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I think the quotation is too long for the article but might work in the quotation section at the end. I'm a newbee so I'm not sure what the policy is on long quotes. I'll try and find out. --Leroy65X 16:54, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

My Alleged POV edition of Iranian Revolution

Salam alaika (or ki). My quotes and evidence comes from quite well known analysts and observers- Moin, Brumber, Keddie, etc. (e.g. while other groups were misled by Khomeinist statements giving "a democratic interpretion of the future Islamic Republic." [1] that you deleted comes from a well known analyst of Iran Nikki Keddie. [19] She is not a Muslim, but like many foreign observers, she thought the Shah a tyrant and was excited about the revolution in 1978-9.)

Yes, we should have positive as well as negative information. I tried to balance the information on women in the Islamic revolution. (Note: I tried to do this also on the wiki article on Khomeini but it was contintually deleted by a certain Marmoulak.)

Yes, I have never been to Iran. Most of my information on Iran comes from reading about it. I am an American and it is hard for non-Iranian Americans to go to Iran.

God bless you too --Leroy65X 16:02, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Feel free to send me messages in lieu of email. I want to be honest, I know I do not and cannot understand a lot of Iranian and/or Shia culture. But it seems there are a lot of things others (myself) can understand without a deep understanding of Persian mysticism, entezar, faraj, and similar wisdom.
For example I quote a non-Iranian Keddie, but there are many Iranians -- Shaul Bakhash, Ervand Abrahamian, Asghar Schirazi, Baqer Moin, Said Amir Arjomand -- who don't share my ignorance and who I've read and quoted also.
And for all that I don't know about Iran I will continue to endeavor to be accurate, fair and balanced in editting --Leroy65X 19:42, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
I got this message from Khoikhoi
I don't think the quote is long at all, but that's just my opinion. I disagree that there should be a separate section in the article just for quotes. They should be moved to Wikiquote instead. Also, I found Iranian Revolution very hard to read due to the POV, cleanup, unreferenced, and expand tags in almost every section. What happened? Khoikhoi 06:17, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
I think he's right that we have to fix the article. I'll see what I can do to make changes today that I hope will be mutally agreeable and take down some of my POV tags. Asalam alaika. --Leroy65X 15:42, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I'm trying to cleanup the Iran rev article so we can agree to take down at least most fo the tags. --Leroy65X 16:49, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
I'm a little busy, now but just briefly I feel there has to be something said in the article about the change in Khomeini's position vis-a-vis democracy vs velayata-e faqih over the revolution. I'm sure you've seen this: "Democracy? I meant theocracy", by Dr. Jalal Matini Translation & Introduction by Farhad Mafie, August 5, 2003, The Iranian,
Naturally secularists and many muslims either more modernist (shariati's followers ) or more traditionalist (shariatmadari's followers) felt decieved by these statements. (which is what keddie is talking about in regards to Referendum of 12 Farvardin). Salam --Leroy65X 18:20, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Aramesh Doustdar

Please see Aramesh Doustdar, if you are interested. Take care.Sina Kardar 16:46, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

01:02, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Jews in Iran

Hi SaVa, I just saw your comment on my talk page about this; I must have missed it before. I have known many Iranians in the US--personally and professionally, and like Persian dancing and food. There are two Persian restaurants in my neighborhood. I did read about the large population of Jews in Iran more than any Muslim country in the world on an article at the Jimena Web site. I was sad that the government does not allow the school the Jewish kids attend to close on Shabbat. Do you know that this means that Jews cannot practice their religion fully? In the US schools are not closed on Fridays; I am not sure if this is considered a problem for Muslims. Elizmr 01:10, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Interesting changes, you really did your research. Although I don't know so much on the topic of Jews in Iran, I think this is a good step in the right direction in this controversial article and I think people on "both sides" of the "argument" can see the merits of this. Keep up the great work. Valley2city 22:23, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Latest in Iranian Revolution

I made a bunch of edits and additions I think you will think are good. We will still have to sort out our differences on Ideology of revolution and some other sections.

I hope we have enough agreement now to remove the POV tag from the beginning of the article and just use them for sections. [20] --Leroy65X 23:00, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Anti-Akhound

Anti-clerics needs to be expanded by adding some clear examples. please help when you have time. Sina Kardar 16:18, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes! It looks like neologism. I was not sure though. That's why I requested you and others to come and expand it. Take care. Sina Kardar 20:13, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
There is Anti-clericalism in Christianity. Anti-cleric, Anti-clerical etc redirect there. I've just redirected Anti-clerics too. Sina Kardar 20:14, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

What are you talking about? And why did you remove the award? Embargo 16:22, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Hayy ibn yakdhan

Alaykom alsalam, I just created the article yesterday; and I'm searching I found the article in the Arabic wikipedia now and it says that Ibn sina wrote the tale then Ibn Tufail. However, Ibn Tufail made his own version with different structure because the original tale did not match his ideas (قناعات) .And the last version was made by Ibn Alnafis with different ideas and different names which was Salih ibn Kamil. Please feel free to write in the article in order to expand it...thank you --Aziz1005 13:28, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Salam, regarding the rules I was new at that time, although I still disagree with most points (there are other users as well) and thanks for offering to help me. The other thing I don’t need help with Shia articles because I am shia and Shia articles are apparently fine here. Where as Arab articles are extremely vandalized and attention is not given to them. The main point here is to be fair with all cultures and not taking side by side. Anyway, we are all Muslims and brothers…thank you.--Aziz1005 22:06, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
Thats great ...thanks--Aziz1005 17:51, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
I think it's better for me to stay as I am now. We can have a special friendship so we can discuss problems together. Also because I won't contribute a lot here and you are busy in Real life (me to).My problem is not only with Rules its partly with language. Thanks again for offering to help me.--Aziz1005 14:09, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Award

{{ |The Islamic Crescent of Karbala' (awarded by Embargo.)}} Forgive me its appearance. Embargo 02:00, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Salman

Come on my brother, you don’t have to tell me that. The only reason I am at wikipedia is because of articles relating to Shi’ahs. Later Salman 23:03, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

God bless you too, but when did I personally attack you? Embargo 16:14, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Neologism

You show your enough understading about our culture, I am really sorry to visitng people who acctually have not enough information about something and consider themselves as scholar --Ali 11:06, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Shia Islam

I took a look at it. Wow, lots of edits :) I agree with you that the article needs more edits but I think what it needs most is adding sources. For Shia POV, maybe a book from Seyyed Hossein Nasr helps. Cheers, --Aminz 03:23, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Terrorism in Iran

Hi, I responded on the talkpage - Talk:Terrorism in Iran. Regards, KazakhPol 17:33, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Indeed, hence I responded at length on Talk:Terrorism in Iran. KazakhPol 03:51, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
The accuracy of the information you added was never the issue. The grammar of the passages you added and the lack of citation, as I discussed on the talkpage, were why I reverted your edits. KazakhPol 03:58, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Userboxes

Actually, I am familiar enough with Wikipedia policy. Many users have userboxes expressing support for Israel, the United States, cats.. whatever. I have discussed my userbox with many admins and we have reached a consensus. Embargo 20:30, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Battle of Thermopylae

The tags you added were on the accounts which were traditionally given by Herodotus and accepted/repeated by modern historians (see P. Green - the Greco-Persian wars). The source is already provided at the bottom, and already overlinked to the article. There's no reason to link them on every single full stop. Also, please don't change the head, I think it provides a good summary of the event. Miskin 03:25, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I kinda said that the reference was already provided, but cited more globally. Miskin 03:34, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
Please don't flood my Talk page with irrelevant stuff. Those edits are not mine, I don't make unreferenced claims. Check the diffs to find out who made those edits or verify them yourself. Miskin 03:52, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

And please restore the reference you moved to the aftermath section. It was fine in the head. Miskin 03:54, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

From Izmaster

I didn't know how to be adopted and put it on your page but then deleted it...sorry

Images

Salam Alaykum There were some images based on fair use like Image:Iran-chemical.JPG. I replaced some them with images which have been released under GFDL license. Should I put a tag to delete them.Template:Sa.vakilian--12:41, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi Sa.vakilian. If the pictures such as Iran-chemical.jpg are under fair use than i see no need to delete them as they can be used later on when needed. You can replace them inside the article by using the ones GFDL license while preserving them for a future use in case that would be needed. Cheers. -- FayssalF - Wiki me up ® 13:02, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
How can we find them again.Template:Sa.vakilian--13:12, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
I have an account at the Commons. I will upload them them and put them in War Category:Iran-Iraq War. This way they would be easier to be found. Please give me the links to all the pictures you need to transfer to the Commons so i'd categorize them there. Cheers. -- FayssalF - Wiki me up ® 13:20, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
These are the pictures:

All of these pictures show Iranian POV. Can you find western or Iraqi POV. Template:Sa.vakilian--13:41, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I'll delete Iran-iraq-war-gas-masks.JPG as it has a printed note of the owner. The rest i'll transfer them to Commons as per above. I am not sure if i could get non-Iranian POV pics. -- FayssalF - Wiki me up ® 13:50, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
Done → Category:Iran-Iraq War. -- FayssalF - Wiki me up ® 14:10, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Allah in Islam

Look at this page. It claims that the name of the creator of the Universe derives from a tree. Isn't it hilarious? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Al-Bargit (talk • contribs) 09:22, 17 March 2007 (UTC).

Lewis quotation

Hi, can you tell me why you removed part of the Lewis quotation here? --Matt57 12:12, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

If you thought its a copyright violation, you could have mentioned in the edit summary. We can reword it and put it back. Could you do that? Thats better than deleting. Then it wont be a copyright issue. thanks for the link. --Matt57 12:31, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
Oh I see now, you had just moved the text to the bottom. Sorry, my apologies. --Matt57 16:15, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Re:your note

Salam

I understand your point. My aim of writing this article was the following:

  • I think we, Iranians, need to sit down and write an well written article about this issue. As long as the "problem" is not defined clearly, one can not solve it. I wrote this article, just to attract people like you. I want to come back after one year to see what happened to the article.

Honestly I am no expert on this issue and I don't support a single statement of the article personally. However I can clearly see that most Iranian thinkers don't understand it either. What shall we do then? We have to start from somewhere. Should we wait until an American neo-con initiate such an article? Who should write this article? people like Tabatabai? people like Doustdar? people like Soroush? people like Mesbah? people like Khatami? people like Yousef Sanei? people like Emad Afrough? people like Ahmad Sadri? Bernard Lewis? Jahanbegloo? Davari? Mohammad Arkoun?

I can only recommend you to rewrite the article. in Ashofteh bazare fekri dar iran baiad saman begireh va wikipedia jaie khoobi baraie tamrin kardan hast. My last point: az oxfordi ha bot nasaz! neveshteh haie oonha ham dar morede iran changi be del nemizaneh. man iek mah rooie in maghaleh kar kardam. agar 100 ta irani ie digeh har kodoom iek mah rooie in article kar konan, misheh iek maghaleie khoob. Sina Kardar 13:39, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

navvab safavi ba sheykh fazlollah fargh dasht. navvab dar jalasatee sherkat mikard ke dar oon falsafeie gharb bahs mishod. Darius Shayegan dar morede taseer paziri ie navvab az marxism motale'eh karde. agar doost dareed, "neo" ro hazf konid va bejaie fundamentalists va neo-fundamentalists begeed "group 1 fundamentalists" and "group 2 fundamentalists". Sina Kardar 21:07, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Tabarian Calendar

Dorood, Thank you for your response, I recommend you reading this book, ISBN 964-360-455-1 which written in persian and is about iranian chronology, It also uses tabarian calendar to answering some scholars that iran has ancient culture and current persian calendar is not a heritage of arabs, since it's epoch is similar to hijra calendar, Anyway, There is an article in persian wp, i think it would be possible to translating the articles from another language? yeah? Please help me to reviewing it again and to helping writing about the culture of mazandarani people --Ali 22:28, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Man Arz kardam ke in ketab ro motale'a befarmayeed, I told you to reading this book, Of course you may find that i didn't mistakely used the term of tabarian, Zoroastrian calendar has been used during the sasanid priod till now, Please if you find the time, read the pp. 45 of this book, Taqvim tabari in farsi mishe tabarian calendar in english --Ali 04:31, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Salam

Salam, Thank you for your edits I really appreciate your contributions especially on the Islamic conquest of Persia Article--Aziz1005 22:35, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Template:Sa.vakilian

Salam alaykum

I made this template and use it as my signature. But today an admin deleted it and I made it again. Is it against wikipedia policy?Template:Sa.vakilian--17:02, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi Sa.vakilian. Yes, transclusion of templates is forbidden because signatures require extra processing and that would harm the server. You can just copy the same code you had on the template and paste it in My Preferences at the signature field. -- FayssalF - Wiki me up ® 17:09, 19 March 2007 (UTC)


Hello. I notice you have created this page. There are two problems with this. First, pages which are only of use to one user could be created as a user subpage, such as User:Sa.vakilian/MyNewPage. The Template: name space should not be used for personal things. Secondly, that page looks a lot like a signature template, and the policy at WP:SIG specifically prohibits signature templates. If you have any questions about templates, user pages, or signatures, feel free to leave me a message. Thanks. —dgiestc 17:11, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your warning. I made a new signature and corrected almost all of my wrong signature. God bless you.--Sa.vakilian(t-c) 07:25, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

RE:your message on my talkpage

I closed Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/An English word.. belongs in Wiktionary, not here as it was a malformed nomination that was never correctly listed; and the article already survived and AfD per the other link you provided.--Isotope23 20:01, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Prayers

Sure. Just credit me. Bless you! Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 11:47, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Please reconsider your vote to merge Human rights in pre-Saddam Iraq

Hi Sa.vakilian,

I've just put a lot of work into improving Human rights in pre-Saddam Iraq so that the article is not now anything like what it was when you voted to merge. I think it may meet your objections to it, so please take another look and see what you think. I'm still not satisfied with the article, but it has roughly the proper scope and many more reliable sources. I think what I've done shows that there's too much material out there to merge this article with anything else. Significant gaps remain and some subjects should have footnotes from more sources, but I think the article is several steps toward what it should be. Best, Noroton 23:00, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Saddam

I agree. Noroton 02:47, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Oh, I didn't see your other statement. I agree about Saddam using WMDs. As far as disambiguation page versus a main page, that is more work than I'm willing to do, at least any time soon. I like the idea of being able to say on it that Saddam was by far the worst of a series of bad regimes, but beyond that political point, I'm not sure what the historical value is. I'm agnostic on that. I just want to make sure that this information is preserved. I'm also not sure how long this pre-Saddam article is going to be, although I know it's eventually going to be longer, so no matter what happens, I think this article is necessary. Noroton 02:56, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm still thinking about this. One positive thing about a main article is that it would allow sections on various ethnic groups over the years, and many of the violations of human rights in Iraq followed ethnic patterns. Noroton 03:01, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Please semi-protect the article

Salam. Do see the history of the article.[21]--Sa.vakilian(t-c) 10:24, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

I am watching it. I'll semi-protect it if vandalism persists. Thanks. -- FayssalF - Wiki me up ® 10:27, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi there. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I've requested semi-protection for the page now. Now just waiting on approval from a Wikipedia admin.

In future, you can do this yourself at this page: Wikipedia:Requests for page protection :)

Chrisch 10:28, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Why don't you answer

Salam. Kayfa anta ya akhi I sent some mails for you , but you don't answer me?--Sa.vakilian(t-c) 10:26, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

I am so sorry about that. I've been receiving tons of emails sa. I promise i'll answer you later today. -- FayssalF - Wiki me up ® 10:30, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Vandal Patrolling

Dear Sa.vakilian, Greetings, we were trying to revert the same vandalism page at Ultimate fate of the universe at the same time, it seems you win and I was checking who was it while I got an edit conflict page. Best wishes, --Cyril Thomas 14:41, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Happy Norouz

Salam, ba tashakor. Norouz bar shoma. How can I help? Khorshid 11:59, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't really spend much time on Persian Wikipedia anymore, same here because of time, so I don't know much about Wikiprojects. I did start this article though which needs work: Secularism in Iran if you are interested in that. Khorshid 08:43, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Salam

Hello, Sa.vakilian. Thank you very much for your helpful message. I will read through the links you have sent me. I hope I messaged your correctly.

That's a very good suggestion. But I think we should only provide a summary in the Islam article. The details can go to other articles. Cheers, --Aminz 02:23, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Re: Question

It looks like the first one is resolved as a redirect but the nominator also included Arabic place of Sajdah in the AfD. Were you intending on redirecting that as well? If so it can be closed as a speedy redirect, which non-admins can do. VegaDark 08:00, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, I think it is ok leaving it open and letting it run its course under that name. The redirect looks good and I think any editors that participate in the AfD will notice that the redirect is resolved but the other one isn't. You may want to leave a note saying that you redirected only the first but that the second is still up for discussion, to clarify to other editors. You could also ask Kingboyk what he thinks, he might be willing to withdraw that nom and renominate just the second one. VegaDark 08:15, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
Also, I've added Arabic place of Sajdah in the AfD title that will show up on the main AfD page so it will be noticed. I hope that addresses your concerns. VegaDark 08:20, 24 March 2007 (UTC)


2007 incident

Hello. Could you please insert a dispute tag here: [22] John Smith's and I have a disagreement about that section, but he reverted the dispute tag I put there. We could really use a third opinion regarding our debate. Please see here: [23] Thank you.Azerbaijani 02:49, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

There were two articles initially cited as a source, both by the associated press. John Smith's picked the quote which had the most negative connotation in it, rather than the more neutral one. This was his selective quoting. If you read the argument, he cites his own POV as to why his version should be used rather than the more neutral one.Azerbaijani 03:31, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
Done.Azerbaijani 04:06, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Garryglitter49

No he is a blatant vandal. See [24]. The Behnam 04:48, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

The guy is blocked for persistent vandalism. I don't think the project is at any loss. The Behnam 04:52, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
Yeah. I usually give out a welcome if they seem to be editing in good faith even if it isn't perfect. For bad faith editing the warnings should educate them well enough. If they do more malicious editing after the warnings there is no point in playing nice with them. Thanks for being watchful of my actions, anyway. The Behnam 04:58, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Opera (Internet suite) incident

You haven't covered all your tracks.

Pictures from Sajed.ir

Hi Sa.Vakilian,

I noticed that you uploaded a bunch of pictures from that website, the great news is that they are GFDL licensed. I wanted to ask you if you could upload them on commons so they can be used on other wikis too (since you know what are the images you uploaded from that site). Thanks a lot. Fabienkhan | talk page 11:12, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Salam, Sale khubi dashte bashi. Yes, I'm the guy who you asked a picture for Henry Corbin (unfortunately, I never got an answer from the website i asked the permission for the pictures). Thanks for the uploading ! Fabienkhan | talk page 14:24, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

AutoWikiBrowser

Hi, Thanks for approving me. Can I asked my questions about AWB if I had any problem with it.--Sa.vakilian(t-c) 02:26, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Sure, you can ask me, but you'd probably be better of asking at WT:AWB. You'll get a wider view and most likely a faster response there. —METS501 (talk) 02:32, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
I downloaded it but when I click on the icon of AutoWikiBrowser encounter with The application failed to initialize properly (0xc0000135). --Sa.vakilian(t-c) 02:38, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
I downloaded it from another mirror but problem hasn't been solved.--Sa.vakilian(t-c) 02:44, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
FAQ #1 :-) —METS501 (talk) 02:48, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

AWB

You need to download and install .NET Framework 2.0 in order to get AWB working. MaxSem 05:49, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

An Order To Maalik al-Ashtar

All good advice: justice, courage, kindness, compassion, love, forgiveness, humility. Then this caught my eye:

".... Therefore, make your mind the source and fountain-head of good thoughts, good intentions and good deeds."

That's Zorastrian right? And yet, did Ali ibn Abi Talib ever even set foot in Iran? Interesting. --Leroy65X 18:45, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Photos from Almanar

Sorry man, I'm afraid I don't know anything about image copyright rules. Sorry I can't help more. — George Saliba [talk] 09:29, 29 March 2007 (UTC)


Independence in Iran

Salam Sa.vakilian, hope you are doing well, I hope my polishing of your message helps. This is a very thought provoking little essay and I will try to do it justice with a reply. --Leroy65X 22:14, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Yes, I think you are right that people in America do not appreciate more basic things like "territorial integrity," the defense of their countries borders. Whether their country is "rich and strong" as the Chinese say. I'm told the Chinese had an alternative list of human rights that included "survival" of people and/or the state as a right, (something all to many people can relate to I fear.) Americans are "spoiled" in that way. A famous German statesman once said in regard to the geopolitical luck of the U.S., "God looks out for fools and the United States." How much longer that holds ... only God knows.
  • I know Russia invaded and took parts of Iran in the 19th century.
  • As a non-theocrat Westerner I know I look at things differently than theocrats. But I don't want my contributions to wikipedia to be Western POV. I want them to be fair and balanced, (as they say) pointing out the flaws of the Shah (wasting money on American military materiel, buying equipment that couldn't be operated without large numbers of foreign technicians living in Iran), and the successes of the IRI. --Leroy65X 22:14, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
  • As an outsiders, Iran does not seems as vulnerable to vast foreign threats as many other countries. Not that it would ever (as you say) attack its own military. But Iran is a big country. It has, for example, three times the population and 4 times the area of neighbor Iraq. It has valuable wealth in its 10% of the world's proven oil reserves. It has an educated workforce and unlike most of its neighbors (Iraq for example) was a cohesive nation state.
  • I know martyrdom as a technique of jihad as become very popular as a way of using the power of faith (if I really believe in Jannah I won't be afraid to die) to balance the military superiority of Western military technology. It was a great success as a way of expelling Israeli military from southern lebanon, and likely the U.S. from Iraq.
  • My question, and not just my question I think, is was it used by the Islamic Revolution to expell Iraqi military from Iran? Or to try (unsucessfully) to overthrow Sadam? Looking at the Iran-Iraq war timeline Iran retook Khorramshahr by the end of May 1982 but the war went on for another 6 years.
I have to cut my reply short and I hope my reply has not been insensative. I agree protecting independence of iran should be listed as an achievement fo the revolution. --Leroy65X 23:02, 29 March 2007 (UTC)


Iranian revolution

Latest in Iranian Revolution arrangement (organization)

See what you think http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Iranian_Revolution#Slight_change_in_rearrangement Salam alaika --Leroy65X 18:38, 6 March 2007 (UTC)


Latest in Iranian Revolution

see what you think of the new summarized, wikified ideology of the revolution [25]

Salam alaika --Leroy65X 23:43, 8 March 2007 (UTC)


Wrote a big long reply [26] suggesting some changes. No, I'm not a student anymore. This is my hobby. I have a job working for "local government" How about you? Salam alaika --Leroy65X 16:11, 10 March 2007 (UTC)


New idea at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Iranian_Revolution#Reply_to_Slight_change_in_rearrangement --Leroy65X 16:39, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

At your service. (Unless I get busy) --Leroy65X 16:25, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

OK, Have any counterproposal to my outline? --Leroy65X 16:35, 15 March 2007 (UTC)


I finally wrote a reply. (Its busy where I am!)[27]


Reply [28], salam --Leroy65X 18:54, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm busy today but have added some dates to the timeline. Happy NoRooz --21:31, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Salam, Hope you had a good holiday. I was out of action yesterday but will try to do some work today. --Leroy65X 21:45, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Latest in Iranian Revolution Timeline

I shortened the "speeches" but I think we need them.Speeches

Also, any reply to [29] or [30] or [31] --Leroy65X 20:04, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Greater Khorasan

Salam, The map only refers to the period of Abbasids, especially the 8th and 9th centuries. In this map, Khorasan is shown as an administrative division within the Abbasid caliphate. It may not show the entire regions of Khorasan. About Sabzevar, I think Damghan was the most western city in Khorasan. Just as an example, in Noorul-Ulum (the work of Abul-Hassan Kharaqani), Kharaqan (located in north of Shahrood) was called as a town in Khorasan. This point can be easily observed in the map that you presented. Damaghan is situated in the frontier of Khorasan (khorasan province in Abbasid caliphate) in the map. Ariana310 19:30, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Al-Manar editing

I'll try my best

Abdul Rahman (convert)

I recently made some edits to this article based on the issues you mentioned. Any further comments?--Sefringle 06:28, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Maybe you could ask me rather than someone else

If you have a problem with the way I conduct my edits, this is the first I am hearing of it. Had you done so, I would have explained that the post in question was an in-joke for those of us editors wading through the dozens of ridiculous POV edits that were showing up in the article. If you did not understand the reaction to the absurdity of a country essentially declaring war on a B-grade movie, then pershaps you need to revisit humor. At the very least, you could have done the adult thing and contacted me about your objections to the comment. I am not so unreasonable that I would not have considered removing it. Maybe file that away for future reference the next time you take exception to something i say, okay? Arcayne 07:22, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Congratulations

Good work getting Iranian revolution and Ruhollah Khomeini in Wikipedia:Vital articles! (I hope some of my writing in Iranian revolution helped a little.) --Leroy65X 15:22, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

What's my idea? Mainly that I don't have time to get involved! Yes, I agree the list shouldn't be eurocentric, it should be culturally balanced. (Sure call me Leroy) --Leroy65X 15:47, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Al-Manar

I have started work on fixing/updating the references. They have been neglected for a while, lots of dead URLs etc, but hopefully I will be done soon. mceder (u t c) 19:17, 31 March 2007 (UTC)