Template talk:S-roy

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@ Kuatof Could you show me where SBS consens says that we need that ugly colors? Louis88 15:29, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Nice to see you too. We have voted to replace the bright and too vivid blue previously assigned to the s-roy header with a paler tincture. The discussion can be found in SBS's talk page, and more specifically here. Waltham, The Duke of 16:22, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Inappropriate use

These headers should not be used for anyone who wasn't a royal of the country they state. For instance, "British royalty" appearing on the page of the Landgrave of Hesse? It should read "British positions" or something like that. A rather extensive case of overstepping what is needed. Charles 13:17, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Lines of succession are a special case; it has been agreed to use s-roy as a header for them, as there was no other header suitable for these and it would be superfluous to create a new header just for lines of succession. WikiProject British Royalty have also been consulted, and SBS's practice has been approved there as well. After all, only royals are in lines of succession to thrones, and there is a distinct connection between the nation concerned and the person who has this right to the throne (not to mention that all royals in Europe are ultimately relatives by blood or marriage).

This exception (lines of succession to thrones) aside, s-roy is only used for royal titles in the nations stated, and any other usage qualifies, of course, as erroneous. Waltham, The Duke of 08:18, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Royals are not always in line of succession to thrones. For instance, Peter Phillips is tenth in line to the British throne and is not royal or royalty. If all "royals" (not all in succession are royal) are related by blood as a means to categorize then under different nationalities, why not just has a "Royalty" header? I think it is obvious how that would not make sense. Lines of succession are not royal titles, they are positions. Also, WikiProject British Royalty's scope is articles on British royalty and should not be applied to remotely related people in succession. Also note, the Jacobite succession is not "British", it is English, Scottish (, French) and Irish. I would like to see where it was decided that this was a fitting idea because I cannot find the relevant discussion and I am a member of the WikiProject. The Landgrave of Hesse certainly is not British royalty, he is German royalty. Charles 08:47, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Even though not royals in the strict sense (HRH style etc.), the people in lines of succession are still of royal blood. And Peter Phillips is still the grandchild of a sovereign, and a member of the wider royal family.

Furthermore, and more importantly, "British royalty" implies not so much that one is British and a royal, as that one holds a British royal title. After all, not all royals have succession boxes—only those who have held successive titles do. Lines of succession are, as I have mentioned, a special case, but these too show that a person has a number in the queue to receiving a royal title (after all, even people in the line have royal titles apart from their place in the order of succession: the first person in the line has the title of "Heir to the Throne" de facto, which is a British royal title).

And, of course, even if these arguments still do not convince you, I have already mentioned that there is no other header that could be used or even created in order to substitute s-roy for lines of succession. "British positions" is highly unsuitable as a header title, not only because we opt for a certain degree of precision in our categorisation scheme, but also because it would be unusable elsewhere. And a "Lines of succession" header would be pretty much underused, as most people only have a single line for these in succession boxes (for a place in a single line of succession to a throne).

We could, of course, solve more particular issues if problems do present themselves with elements of this scheme, like the Jacobite example that you mention (although in this particular case "British" does cover "English", "Scottish", and "Irish" all at once).

Forgive me, but all this sounds strange to me, given that I have seen s-roy used really badly, placed in boxes right above s-reg headers in order to (redundantly) disambiguate regnal titles by nation (by a member of your project, if I remember correctly). Even if its use for lines of succession looks, in occasions, a bit counter-intuitive, there is good reason why it is there. Waltham, The Duke of 13:01, 22 October 2007 (UTC)