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Contents 1 Sources 2 Recent edits 3 Roslea 4 Padraig 5 Does it need to be discussed further, or is it time to go back to Rosslea? 6 Final Decision(?) 7 Evidence in the name dispute 7.1 Pro Rosslea 7.2 Pro Roslea

[edit] Sources

The sources in the Maze Escape section do not back up the assertion that McElwaine was interrogated by the SAS before his death. The An Phlobacht source is not considered reliable for information of this kind (and does not assert this fact anyway, instead stating that he was "executed") and the other source doesn't even mention him (at least thats what my Mozilla search says, if its wrong please point out where he is discussed). Please can somebody address this issue.--Jackyd101 11:51, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

It's mentioned briefly in Big Boys' Rules, page 219. Lynch claims the SAS interrogated McElwaine for 30 minutes before "finishing him off", but the book clearly states the allegations can't be independently corroborated and that as of mid '91 no inquest had taken place so it's not possible to say if that was feasible or not. One Night In Hackney 12:48, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Just an additional note on this, after I was doing some research for expanding it. The inquest did actually take place in 1993 and Lynch's account was confirmed, that McElwaine was interrogated before being killed. I'll be adding details of the inquest and some other post-death events shortly. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 21:24, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Recent edits

An IP editor made this edit, which I'm reverting. Firstly after a lengthy discussion over on the Village Pump, killing is used to describe the death of someone, then murder is used to describe any subsequent convictions, which is exactly what was happening before. Secondly the names of the victims are not relevant, and the part about one being shot in front of his wife is not in any source therefore it's original research. The various locations being added are not particularly relevant either, just trivia that makes the flow of the text worse. As such, I'm reverting back to the previous version. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 06:33, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Roslea

Coneypiece, have a look at this Google Search Its spelt Roslea, even on the Fermanagh District Council website.--padraig 22:13, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Compare this with this. The bbc call it Rosslea, the local papers call it Rosslea. Oh and if you notice that Council link you provided uses both names. Please do pay attention. Conypiece 22:23, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

See [1]] where it states There has been disagreement over something as simple as the name of the town. The majority prefer the spelling Roslea coming from the Irish root ‘Ros Liath’ (the grey wood) while it is written ‘Rosslea’ on official maps. Today the challenge is to create a spirit of regeneration as well as economic growth through agencies such as the Roslea Enterprise Centre. so the majority usage is Roslea.--padraig 22:30, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Both names are correct. So there is no need to change from one to the other, the article should be left as it was when you found it - ie Roslea. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 22:31, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Ah I knew it wouldnt take long before the WR:IRA calvary arrived to help poor padraig. And no both names are not the same. Have you ever been in Fermanagh? Have you ever seen the signs? Never read extracts of official documents? Conypiece 22:33, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes I have I have family in Fermanagh and I have also worked in the County, so your point is?.--padraig 22:56, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Go have a look at WP:LAME. There's plenty of articles need improving, why not edit one of them instead? One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 22:43, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Dont try to divert my attention, ask Padraig, I stick with an article until I see it made right. If need be I will produce evidence of the Rosslea name to an admin Conypiece 22:47, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

You started the lame edit war. Both are acceptable, so there's no need to change it from one to the other. So it's lame. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 22:51, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

It may be acceptable but it is not official. Hard luck. Conypiece 22:56, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't need to be official. If this argument was where the article was at you may have a point, as it stands you don't. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 22:57, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

It does need to be 'accurate' and in this case accurate means official. Shame you have no other method but call it a lame edit war, when you actively took part out of the blue, that reminds me, Padraig where did you go? Or are you happy enough to let Hackney try to fight your battles? Point remains, its not the official name, Roslea is slang, it is not staying. Conypiece 23:02, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

I already replied to you above, and Roslea is not slang it is the original name from the Irish name, and widely used in Fermanagh and the surrounding areas.--padraig 23:05, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Is it official? Yes/No. Rosslea is also widely used.Conypiece 23:07, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

No, accurate does not mean official otherwise Derry would be at a different location. Both names are acceptable, and starting a lame edit war achieves nothing. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 23:07, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

The difference being the Londonderry name is disputed, Rosslea is not, it is local slang, seriously have you ever even been to rosslea? Conypiece 23:12, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

BTW I also think Padraig is a big enough boy to try to fight his own battles, the above question was for him. Conypiece 23:13, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Try being WP:Civil, any editor is free to comment in reply to you on an article talk page, this isn't MSN or yahoo.--padraig 23:19, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

One would have to wonder occasionally... Oh btw, can you answer the question. :) Conypiece 23:20, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

What question would that be, I have already answered you, and provided sources. If you wish to continue a stupid lame edit dispute then I have no more to add to this discussion.--padraig 23:28, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Good to see your resorting to the methods previously used by your big buddy Hackney, ie calling everything lame. Rosslea is official. Hard luck. Conypiece 23:33, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Domer48, Rosslea = Official Name. Please do at least some research, and refer to the above 'discussion' Conypiece 13:52, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Roslea is acceptable, and please see the manual of style.

In June 2005, the Arbitration Committee ruled that when either of two styles is acceptable, it is inappropriate for an editor to change an article from one style to another unless there is a substantial reason to do so (for example, it is acceptable to change from American to British spelling if the article concerns a British topic, and vice versa). Edit warring over optional styles is unacceptable. If an article has been stable in a given style, it should not be converted without a style-independent reason. When it is unclear whether an article has been stable, defer to the style used by the first major contributor. See Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Jguk.

There is no "substantial reason to do so". One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 16:32, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

that when either of two styles is acceptable, problem is though it isn't acceptable to very many people. Conypiece 20:24, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Conypiece "If an article has been stable in a given style, it should not be converted without a style-independent reason." Now please stop pushing your opinions, and not just on this article. Be civil, show some respect for editors. --Domer48 22:56, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Erm there is a differnce between being stable and being right. Stable is when generally everyone agrees, the reason this has not been edited before is because not many people have a clue about Rosslea, or even it excisted (as the case is with you I suspect)! The first day I was on this page I edited to the correct term. Many days later it was reverted by one of your brigade. Now tell me, did you find what term the BBC etc use? Conypiece 23:02, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Padraig

You describe this as the 'lamest edit war'. Care to tell us all then why you came back to fuel it? Now tell me, have you done any research in regards to this name dispute? Conypiece 18:37, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes I have, I also know the area quite well, I do come from Northern Ireland, the spelling Roslea is also used in many of the sources used in this article, you are editwarring to WP:Point.--padraig 21:15, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

You may claim to 'know the area quite well' but I actually live in County Fermanagh. Care to tell us all what the road signs say? As I have already mentioned many, many times Roslea is used very little outside of a group of people in that area. The majority still use Rosslea. The local papers use Rosslea, the BBC use Rosslea, the Education board uses Rosslea. Don't you think you edit warred by coming back to this article to revert when both Domer and ONiH had left it as Rosslea? Conypiece 21:22, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

[2] [3] [4]. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 21:28, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Both the editors you refered to didn't leave it as Rosslea, as you claimed, ONIH last edited the article on the 29th August, you then reverted it on the 7th Sept reverted it to Rosslea, ignoring the discussion on this page, I then reverted you and left the 'lamest edit war' edit summary. As for knowing the area I have many relations in the area, I also have worked there many times.--padraig 21:33, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

ONiH, try googling BBC Rosslea Vs Roslea, do come back and tell us the results.

Padraig, tell us, what do the signs to the village say? Did you check what the majority of BBC stories say? Did you check the education board? Conypiece 21:38, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

As demonstrated, the BBC also use Roslea. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 21:40, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

And in roughly what percentage? Rough guess, anyone could do it by picking the first x number of stories. This will help you. Careful though, we are talking about the village name, not what the GAA use Conypiece 21:43, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

The BBC (and other sources) using Roslea elevate it above "local slang". One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 21:45, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

But surely in the interest of accuarcy, we should use the most commonly used name? Take the Londonderry Vs Derry issue for example. Oh did you check it for a rough precentage? Conypiece 21:48, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, and we use Derry there. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 21:50, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Exactly, Derry is majority = used. Rosslea is majority = not used. Why? Conypiece 21:51, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Conypiece the majority use by the population is Roslea, that is the Irish way of spelling it from the original Gaelic name, because the british spell it with two s' dosen't make them right, it is a Irish village in Ireland.--padraig 21:56, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Erm care to prove that most people spell it Roslea? It's sort of funny (yet sad) that you have resorted to the Irish vs. British thing. Oh and Roslea is not Irish! Have you even checked the wiki Rosslea page. Ah i'm just after noticing our good friend ONiH was the last to edit the page. He should tell us all why he left it remaining Rosslea? Conypiece 22:09, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

I was fixing a copy and paste move, something that has to be done per the GFDL. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 22:12, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

So I see, but that was a chance to change the spelling all together, why didn't you? Oh and also if you could answer my 10.51 question. Conypiece 22:17, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

I was fixing a copy and paste move, nothing more, nothing less. As for your other question, the BBC use Londonderry. So I don't understand the question. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 22:27, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm not saying you did anything wrong, however am just noting the fact that you were on the Rosslea page but yet failed to change the name to the version you think to be correct. It just looks very curious. Anyhow, we are not talking about the BBC anymore; you didn't answer any of my questions, so I moved on. We are talking about people themselves. Conypiece 22:34, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Both are correct, I restored it to the pre-copy and paste move version. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 22:36, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Once again I am telling you that you don't have to explain why you did it, its pretty obvious. At least we are now getting somewhere, yes both are used but which one is used more? Conypiece 22:39, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Which is used more by the BBC? Londonderry or Derry? One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 22:41, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Equal amounts (i'm guessing!), but there is a massive difference between the popularity of Derry compared to Roslea. Care to tell us if Rosslea or Roslea is used more by the BBC? Conypiece 22:43, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Your guess would be wrong. And sorry I'm not wasting any more of my limited time here. Either is correct (as the BBC shows!) so there's no legitimate reason to change it. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 22:44, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

So how is my guess wrong? The BBC have a policy of leaving it up to the editors and presenters themselves. This is made very clear and most people know what each of the BBC presenters preference is. I'm sorry but you cannot edit and run, Padraig did that, but I kept up with him until recently it seems he's been very quiet. You cannot walk away from this discussion, you made a decision to get involved so you should remain until the dispute is resolved or stay away from this issue altogether. Oh and before you run, care to answer me by telling us what the BBC use more Rosslea/Roslea? Oh theres still a discussion going on at the Gerry Adams' page, you have a pending question, will you be back to it? Conypiece 22:51, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

I can edit as I see fit, and please do not harass me on my talk page as your messages will be removed without reply and if you continue to post there action may be taken against you. There's no outstanding question on the Gerry Adams talk page. If you can't see what is staring you in the face, I see no reason to make you look foolish by pointing it out. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 22:55, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

By your attitude then I am assuming you will not be reverting this page again. You will no longer have an interest in the Rosslea/Roslea issue. Fair enough, at least you said you were leaving. Oh and there is a question on Gerry Adams' talk page. If you fail to answer it then I will assume you have lost interest in that issue as well, therefore I will not expect you to edit that particular issue in the future. Thanks for your honesty. Conypiece 23:00, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

You've yet to provide any arguments why it should be changed, and your constant barrage of pointless questions has yet to prove otherwise and isn't likely to. You're wasting my time and that of other editors, and are disrupting Wikipedia to make a point. As above, your question has been answered several times on the Adams talk page, I suggest you read the article and the talk page and you'll see quite clearly why the information does not get added back to the article in that format. 23:03, 10 September 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by One Night In Hackney (talk • contribs)

I thought I was pretty clear in why it needs to be changed, for accuracy! Roslea is not the correct name, and through the above discussion it has been realised that unlike Derry/Londonderry there is not a major name dispute. Therefore there is no reason for it to remain Roslea. Conypiece 23:09, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Does it need to be discussed further, or is it time to go back to Rosslea?

Considering ONiH has now left the arena failing to adequately back up his claims, I am just asking if anyone else has an issue with the Rosslea name? I would ask people to read the above discussion before commenting. The sooner this issue is resolved the better! Conypiece 23:09, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't work that way. Simply because I am very bored of answering your pointless questions does not give you consensus to change it. The discussion is pointless so I refuse to waste any more of my time with it, but that does not mean you have consensus through a war of attrition. My comments above remain valid as do all those of other editors who have got bored of this frivolous waste of time. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 23:12, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Care to give examples of my 'pointless' questions? I didn't think boredom was an excuse, but if thats what you want to use to leave, I'll not argue with you ;). Oh and I am not claiming to have consensus, I am hoping this thread will detirmine that. Conypiece 23:17, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Can't you find my 'pointless questions'? Conypiece 11:39, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

See above, as in the entire talk page. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 11:50, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

I have once again read this talk page and once again failed to find any of these 'pointless questions'. So far on this talk page we have confirmed Rosslea is used more locally, Rosslea is used more by the local press, Rosslea is used by the education boards, Rosslea is used far more commonly than Roslea by the BBC, the road signs say Rosslea. Have I missed anything? Now why do you still insist Roslea is more accurate? Conypiece 20:27, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Well Conypiece since you have come on today you have set about causing problems and editwars on at least 13 articles.[5] are you going for some sort of record. --Domer48 21:36, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Can't really find how that is relevant to this discussion, however I am intrigued, please do list them 13 articles and also give examples for all 13 on how I have 'caused problems and edit warred' on them. If not retract and apologise. Conypiece 21:40, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Final Decision(?)

Have any of the editors that are left (ie not left the discussion) anything further to add? Conypiece 21:57, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Ye read the discussion, and get concensus. The article was stable till you decided to edit war. Final Decision, get concensus. --Domer48 22:01, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Stable? No, undiscovered would be a better word. Have you any evidence (that hasn't already been discussed and settled above) that Roslea should remain? Oh hows my 13 aticle list coming along? Conypiece 22:04, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

You need a consensus to change it. Repeating yourself to the point where you would try the patience of a saint and expecting people to keep replying does not equal consensus. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 22:06, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

As per the previous discussion. --Domer48 22:08, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

At the minute there is no consensus that it should be spelt Roslea, hence this discussion. This page is for people to set the facts and other useful material (ie locals spell it Rosslea) out. So far I have seen 1 link to the Fermanagh council website which can be dismissed by a futher 10 that spell it Rosslea. I have an idea, I will start a new thread, simply for facts, ie no discussion but just pure facts. Everyone should put down all evidence they see relevant. Conypiece 22:12, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Or you could stop wasting everyone's time? One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 22:15, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

As per the previous discussion.--Domer48 22:13, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

I didn't realise finding a solution to this was seen as wasting everyone's time. Conypiece 22:17, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Domer & ONiH, please don't discuss on the below template, it is an honest attempt to find a solution to this problem. Do you disagree it is a good method? And there very much is a dispute in regards to the name. Hope to see the 'evidence' piling up fast from both sides. How long should we leave it before we ask a random admin to come to a decision? 2/3 days maybe? Conypiece 01:28, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Evidence in the name dispute

No discussion, just facts and other useful information. Ah just another idea, we could get an admin (not involved with UK/Irish editors or the arbitration) to review all evidence and come to a final decision.

No dispute, see above discussion. --Domer48 22:27, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Or how about you stop wasting the time of even more editors and just go something constructive? One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 22:28, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pro Rosslea

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[edit] Pro Roslea

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