User talk:Rydel/Archive2

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My discussion page (archive part two)...

Archive part one: Archive: Jul'04-Jan'05

Contents

[edit] Blagoevgrad

Rydel, I decided to create stubs for all towns and cities in Bulgaria here in en.wiki. Up to this moment, I've made about 20 stubs, and you can see them at Category:Towns in Bulgaria. However, towns in Bulgaria are approximately 250. Perhaps I'll complete the task in 2 months. So, Blagoevgrad was just "the next in line" town in Bulgaria I had to make a stub about. :) --webkid 12:05, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Phone

Dear Rydel I do not respond to threats made on the phone. Wikipedia is a free project for everybody to edit. Waerth 19:59, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Belarus

Hi Rydel, I have been following your private crusade against the use of White Russia, Weißrussland, etc., with a mixture of sympathy, amusement, and (last but not least) bewilderment.

Your "White Holland" gedankenexperiment is funny in a way - but wouldn't it actually make much more sense to call the Netherlands "White Germany"?

Not only do the Dutch speak of Wit-Rusland, too, they also seem to be more consistent about it then the Germans are about "their" Weißrussland, as a quick research in Google shows: it's Weißrussland 625,000 - Belarus 538,000 on German pages (so the names are slowly approaching parity), whereas the Dutch users of Belarus are still far behind the Wit-Rusland traditionalists (125,000 and 204,000 results respectively).

In a geographical and historical sense, "White Germany" would also be a closer analogy, as the Dutch are traditionally anxious about being mistaken for Germans - as their larger, more aggressive and better-known eastern neighbour.

So, starting a "White Germany" campaign in the Netherlands would probably strike more of a nerve and do more for your cause than the current "White Holland" campaign will ever do in Germany... ;-)

But seriously, you're tilting at windmills here. Personally I do regret the loss of Weißruthenien in modern German, as it involves an unwarranted loss of differentiation. On the other hand, though, there's little use in crying over spilled milk the way you do. In particular, your argument that Belarus refers to Ruthenia as opposed to Russia, doesn't hold much water. Ultimately, as you certainly know, both descend from the Kievan Rus - and that there later occured a (strangely half-hearted!) split into Ruthenia and Russia owes more to pure linguistic happenstance than to anything else.

Have you ever wondered why the Nederlanders rarely protest against the English-speaking world calling them and their language "Dutch", although this is phonetically close and etymologically related to deutsch, and although they do have their own anxieties about their eastern neighbour? I suppose it is because no one seriously questions the fact that the Netherlands are and should be a country in their own right.

And here we are approaching the crux of the matter, I think. Of course, your fierce "White Holland" campaign is designed to convince people that Belarus was, is, and will be an independent country. The problem is, the more you insist on it, the less obvious it becomes - because nobody wastes their time insisting on things that are obvious anyway... But it is not so much the Germans or the Dutch who need to be convinced that Belarus is a country in its own right: It's the Belarusians themselves, first of all, plus the "proper" Russians, of course. So maybe you should invest your energies into changing your fellow countrymen's minds rather than the Germans - as it is not them who will decide over possible "closer ties" between Russia and Belarus. Good luck, --Thorsten1 23:19, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC) I'd like to share my wishes of good luck. As a native speaker of German, I've been trying to use Belarus instead of Weißrussland whereever possible .. though I must admit that I have wondered how "Belarus" really is "better" there .. I'm guessing that the historical meaning of "rus" is strong enough to not be overwhelmed by the modern "Russia" term? I'm afraid that the problems with ignorance towards Belarus in particular go beyond the name in the general german speaking population though. I've had an Estonian girlfriend for 2 years now and have been to Estonia countless times .. I'm starting to get semi-fluent with the language. I'm quite aware how this former Soviet Republic and its culture is really SO not Russian in any way .. I still have to constantly tell people that NO, I DON'T understand Russian also if I know Estonian and NO, I haven't been to Russia, and NO, Estonia and Russia are NOT "the same thing really" .. and this with a country/culture that isn't even indo-european, let alone slavic. I can imagine similar issues will be even worse when it comes to Belarus and/or Ukraine .. same alphabet, same language family, that being about as much as people learn in school here (in Austria) and you having had to put up with even more Russification (which is bad enough in Estonia really .. especially the attitude of "we don't need to tolerate you, we're the better and more worthy culture, our language is better and more important, yadda yadda yadda .. I'm sure you've heard it all a million times more than I have) .. most people here won't have a bloody clue about the differences between "Russian" and "Belorussian". Most people here still aren't aware that the UdSSR consisted of more cultures than the Russian culture (which is especially disgusting considering how even just Russian Federation is home to hundreds of peoples. The Russians are just the dominant people) Since they're both slavic and all that. Hmpf. I love hearing similar arguments, mostly from Austrians that have been fighting with English for decades now. Isn't it also a germanic language --> basically the same? Best of luck on your campaign, also if I wish I had a better insight on it. Unfortunately I have only visited an Austrian school and my knowledge of Belorussian culture and language is equivalent .. after having learned a bit about russification in other areas, I am glad to know that there are still "real" Belarussians left, in spite of Belarus having been a "prime victim" and that Belarussian culture is aparently not doomed after all. --ChiLlBeserker 23:19, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Talk:Subdivisions of Belarus#naming

Please take a look. --EugeneZelenko 15:23, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] be: localization

Please take a look on be:LanguageBe.php and be:Talk:LanguageBe.php if you will have some time. I think it's important issue. Thank you. --EugeneZelenko 03:41, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Limburgic wikipedia

Dear Rydel, I suppose you are the guy who "contributed" to the Limburgic Wikipedia in the form of calling me an idiot and saying that I am totaaly ignorant on the area of East-Slavonic languages. It can be no-one else. Either provide CONSTRUCTIVE, OBJECTIVE, USEFUL information or keep out there! Caesarion 15:26, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Either provide CONSTRUCTIVE, OBJECTIVE, USEFUL information or keep out there! - I did provide OBJECTIVE information. And I'll keep out there, because I don't have absolutely anything to do in your Limburgic wp. --rydel 16:30, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Ok, so Russian and Belarussian are not related, huh? Why the hell are both of them classified as East-Slavonic languages then? - again you are saying something which is false, and which I never said. Both languages are conveniently grouped together into a language group called East Slavic languages. That's what linguists decided, and they had good reasons for doing so. The fact though, that these languages are in the same group does not tell you anyting about their respective relation and differences. How is Belarusan different from Polish? How is Belarusan different from Ukrainian? How is Belarusan different from Russian? You can't answer such questions, if you don't know anything about any of the four aformentioned languages. If you have nothing better to do than insulting me, we could as well block you. I definetely have better things to do, and I definetely have nothing to do here at limburgic wp. On the other hand, you have some things to do. In case you want to have good languages articles. in case you really want to know something about Slavic languages, You might start reading stuff on the web. For example, here some very-very-very basic intro material:
* Swadesh List: Belarusian - Polish, Russian - Belarusian
* Forming Plural Nominative in Russian and Belarusian
* Letter Frequency (Belarusian and Russian)
* Belarusian Alphabet
finally
* Fundamentals of Modern Belarusian (421 KB) PDF by an Americna linguist Chris Marchant. --rydel 17:18, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Thank you, this is at least what I call useful information. I will rewrite the article soon; feel free to read it when I adapted it. But I must insist that you change the way in which you comment other users; it is very unpleasant. You really make people dislike you, and if they are prone to losing their tempers, you risk the most terrible thinks, as with Waerth and you. This will do for now. Caesarion 17:49, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
All right. And I'm sorry for a hostile tone. --rydel 17:55, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
One bad and unexpected side effect of your comment is that you have woken Monedula up  ;) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Belarus#less_relevant_comment_in_article... - a Russian nationalist that likes to argue with Belarusans, Ukrainians and other by-standers. He (I think it's a he) especially likes inserting Russian imperial POV into Belarus and Ukraine articles, although lately it's not that bad.
LOL. Formerly I used to talk much with real Russian nationalists at various discussion boards, and they always accused me of being "Russophobic". So, I think that I am simply objective. Nobody likes the truth. — Monedula 06:29, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
As I said "not that bad". ;) I think you are quite logical and reasonable (otherwise I would not even attempt to talk with you, here, in WP), but in all the discussions that we had on Belarus and Ukraine you tend to take pro-Russian, pro-Imperial, pro-Bolshevik, pro-Communist position, attempting to emphasize the good things they did and ignoring the bad ones. On the other hand, the overall effect of decades of communist rule on Belarus, on Poland, on Eastern Europe altogether, even on Russia itself is very clear. So when you start defending them, it does immediately smell a bit of POV (and in most cases it is POV). I presume, if we don't touch upon those topics, I expect you to be much more objective on all the other topics (hopefully, that's the case). I believe, and this is just my guess, the main problem with you, Monedula, is that deep inside you believe one of the two things: that either (1) Russians (during Russian empire times and USSR) deserved to excercise such power and control over the smaller nations and be the rulers, shooting and killing many thousands of people (this is a belief in the supremacy of your nation over the others is just sick nationalism, almost Nazi-like, and you just try to cover up and spread the propaganda), or (2) you really believe that Russians were benevolent people that did bring more good than evil to the smaller nations, such as Belarusans or/and Ukrainians. In that case, I will tell you that you are misinformed. On the basis of what I read in the books and online, and people I met and, of course, my own personal experience, I can tell you openly and unequivocally, in spite of certain amount of good things (which came during Russian empire times and during Soviet times, but not necessarily thanks to the Soviets) is clearly much smaller than the amount of evil, damaging and destructive things that Russians did to them. I think you just have to accept the fact that Russian empire and USSR was indeed a prison of nations to millions. Rydel, Martyraloh.org Web-editor
You are wrong at many points. But let me educate you in just one thing. Soviet Union was ruled not by Russians, but by the Communist Party. And the Communist Party included not only Russians, but also Jews, Polish, Ukrainians, Latvians and many other nations, including — yes — Belarusians. And note — during the reign of Lenin and Stalin, when the worse atrocities were committed, the Russians formed only a tiny minority withing the ruling class of USSR. So, who killed whom? — Monedula 10:13, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Category:Presidents of Belarus

Glad to make your day! I thought this was well overdue myself, even if the plural is a bit silly for the time being! :P

Actually the reason it's important is that it allows somebody using Category:Presidents (which lists all the other world presidents) to find the current esteemed President of Belarus... --VivaEmilyDavies 20:22, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Belarus in Spanish

Hi Rydel, thanks for your feedback. If there's something about Belarus you want me to translate into Spanish (hopefully something short and instructive as "Lacinka alphabet"), just let me know. Best regards. --80.58.48.235 20:08, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Belarusian on Wiktionary's Swadesh list

Hi, I converted the Belarusian entries at Wiktionary's Swadesh list for Slavic languages from Łacinka to Cyrillic. I don't actually know Belarusian, though, so I just converted it using the information I could find at Belarusian language and at http://www.belarus-misc.org. Could you double-check the page and make sure the Belarusian words are spelled correctly in Cyrillic? Thanks! --Angr/comhrá 13:10, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Wikiportal Belarus

Dałučajsia: Wikipedia:Wikiportal/Belarus--Czalex 21:19, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

a jaki u hetym sens? --rydel 23:42, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] what an unpleasant encounter

Is it so hard to understand that he (like his children and grandchildren..) dont considered himself Belorusian? 100 years after his death, the try to make him Belorusian is rather Belorusian nationalism...--Witkacy 23:27, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

Facet, ty się w ogóle na Białoruś nic nie znasz. ;) And please learn how to spell words in English before trying to write in an ENCYLOPEDIA. --rydel 23:41, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
"Belorusian" 18,200 hits in Google.. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22belorusian%22
Moze i sie nie znam na Bialorusi tak dobrze jak Ty, i chyba nie musze prawda? Ale bynajmniej nie robie z krowy wielblada ;)--Witkacy 10:41, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
A tak na marginesie, moj pradziadek musial wiac z Kresow (Bialorusi), bo posiadal ziemie, a komuchom sie to nie podobalo i chcialy go ubic podczas 2ws. Wiec gdybym zostal jeszcze w moim zyciu slawny, prosze wez pod uwage, ze moj pradziadek jak i ja jestesmy Polakami - to wspominam tak na marginesie, by nie bylo "edit wars" i komplikacji zwiazanej z moja narodowoscia w razie czego ;)--Witkacy 10:57, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] My ne use natsionalisty

Rydel, cool down, not all of use are like that. Halibutt 10:27, May 31, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Belarus

Hi Rydel, in the german wikipedia Belarus is a redirect, no link should link you there. Ahoi, Stefan

--Mws.Judge 19:10, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

In English Wikipedia there is no word "Richter", no link should link you there. I corrected it to Judge. Ahoj, Uladzimir

--rydel 19:12, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] redirect & judge

gegen Belarus habi ich gar nichts, hatte nur einen neuen Artikel geschrieben de:Minsker Traktorenwerke, und dann noch die meisten Links auf den Redirect Belarus geändert.

du kannst mir da antworten: de:Benutzer:Mws.richter

Entuschlidegen, ich meinte, was haben Sie gegen das Wort "Belarus"? --rydel 19:59, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Vseslav of Polotsk

Why did you revert my updates to Usiaslau of Polatsk? I added genealogical information, a link to an epic poem regarding the subject, corrected mispellings, and modified the name to match the other rulers of the Kievan Rus. Missi 12:17, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ruslana rferl studio prague.jpg

I uploaded your picture to czech wikipedia. I hope it is ok with licence gfdl. cs:Image:Ruslana rferl studio prague.jpg --Li-sung 20:47, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Sure. I took the photo, and I let it under gfdl. --rydel 22:47, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Subdivisions of Belarus

Hello Rydel, someone translated this article in Dutch and left Minsk out as a seperate entity. The same question has been asked on Talk:Subdivisions_of_Belarus#Horad , do you know if Minsk has this status or not? Thx Waerth 00:06, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Yes, indeed it has a special status. For example, that's how they put it in CIA World Factbook (link): "administrative divisions are 6 provinces (voblastsi, singular - voblasts') and 1 municipality* (horad)." --rydel 12:21, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Your last attack on Rogneda of Polotsk and Vseslav of Polotsk

Stop vandalizing, or I will bring an arbitration case against you and you will follow the fate of your friend vandal Emax. Can't you do anything constructive? Or are you good only for revert wars and flooding the articles with you nationalistic POVs? --Ghirlandajo 12:21, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)


Please, stop your Russian imperialist propaganda POV. I repeat, the correct name is Usiaslau.

This is English Wikipedia, so we should use the names that are most appropriate in English. Please open Google and try to search for Vseslav and see the result page. You'll get a bunch of Russian Vseslavs, totally unrelated to this great man. In fact, out of the first ten results (which are the most important by far!), you will get only 1 (one) related to him. Now try to search Google for Usiaslau. You will see that the name is used in English and all of the search results relate to this man. Thus it is the most appropriate title for this encyclopedia page. --rydel 19:49, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Dear Ghirlandajo, please stop lying. Here are the first five Google results for Vseslav:

  1. vseslav.com - some Russian firm in Frankfurt-am-Main
  2. our duke
  3. vseslav.org - bakery in Yekaterinburg, Siberia, Russia
  4. Russian Tmutarakan (ha-ha!)
  5. vseslav.com.ua - Ukrainian construction company that designs swimming pools
  6. www.vseslav.ru - Russian construction company that designs swimming pools

and only after that a couple pages about this man. Dear Ghirlandajo, and here, please compare, are the first five Google results for Usiaslau:

  1. Cultural and Educational Initiative "USIASLAU CARADZIEJ" from Polatsk
  2. History of Polatsk and Usiaslau
  3. Polotsk history and Usiaslau
  4. Belarus history and Usiaslau
  5. Religious history of Belarus and Usiaslau

etc., etc., etc. - all results relate only to this Usiaslau. --rydel 12:26, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Вандалізм

як і куды падаць скаргу на вандала?--Czalex 21:26, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Nationalistic POV

Could you stop to acting like a "Belarusian version" of Zivinbudas? --Witkacy 01:13, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I just would like to know where I can file a complaint about your vandalism acts and how one should proceed in such cases.
Another thing which I would like to tell you personally: do you understand how much damage you do yourself to your Polish cause and the perception of foreigners regarding Poles by doing what you are doing, namely, by showing your stubborn illiteracy in such a fashion on Wikipedia? Do you understand that? I urge you to stop for a second and think how rydel (and other Wikipedians) might view you and consequently other Polish people by looking at your clown behaviour here. I also urge you to go to the library and read something serious about the persons in question, please read something about Hryniewicky and Domeyko before you touch those articles again. --rydel 01:22, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

No Personal attacks. Since you are banned - among others for that - on the Dutch wikipedia, you should know the Wikiquette :) you are on the best way to become the successor of Zivinbudas. [1]

--Witkacy 01:49, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Ignacy Hryniavicki joined "Narodnaja Volja" in 1879 and became a founder of the Belarusan faction of that party. The Belarusan national program of that faction was published in 1884 in the second issue of the newspaper "Гомон" №2 (Gomon, Homon, Homan). Now, could you please explain to us why a "Polish" man would put his own life at risk for publishing a Belarusan national revival program? --rydel 15:37, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Just a very small addition from a linguistic amateur: After you are done answering the previous question about "Narodnaya Volya", could you also explain to us the "H" in his name? The "H" there denotes the fricative Belarusian/Ukrainian "H" (Г) that simply does not exist neither in Polish nor in Russian language. You have only plosive "G" (Ґ) and voiceless velar fricative "CH" (Х) in Russian and in Polish. --rydel 17:08, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Stop touchin my own talk page and start answering the real questions about Ignacy Hryniewiecki. Did you already go to a library? --rydel 10:07, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Yes, its your talkpage - but please don't change my comments, thanks--Witkacy 13:28, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Farewell

I'm sorry to hear you leave the English WP. I had a great fun discussing with you and finding that our views are somewhat similar. The Talk:Ignacy Domeyko and Talk:Old East Slavic language (Old Russian language, as it was before :) ) are a great proof that both Belarusan, Polish, Russian, Lithuanian and whatever POVs can be combined into a NPOV compromise - for the sake of wikipedia.

I realy appreciate your contribution to English wiki and I always thought of you as one of the prominent members of our Central European club. Of course, at times you got carried away with your Belarusian POV just like many of us frequently get carried away with our own, particular POVs. However, I find it natural and many similar disputes here in the WP were resolved peacefully. If you consider someone Belarusian and Witkacy considers him a Pole, then the right place to discuss such matters is the talk pages. The Talk:Ignacy Domeyko page is a fine example. I'm sure other agendas and problems could be resolved similarily, with plain facts, sources and quotes.

Of course, both the history of what-is-now-Belarus and the national identity of modern Belarusans is as complicated as that of Poles, though the difference is that modern Poles rarely think of their national identity as a conglomerate of cultures, traditions and bloods of various peoples. But still, these matters can be handled here - with success. No need to get offended. No need to leave the wiki. If I were you, I would simply passed on and do my job. It's needed and it is appreciated by many.

However, if you really want to leave the wiki, then farewell and godspeed. It was a pleasure to meet you. Halibutt 13:18, Jun 24, 2005 (UTC)

What Halibutt said - better then I could. We had our differences, but I thought we always reached a compromise. Just think about this: if you leave, who will be left to counter the anti-Bielarus POVs? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 15:58, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Don't leave us! Зысьці = прызнаць паразу :) Гэта па-дзіцячаму і ня варта таго.--Czalex 19:47, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] On my participation on English Wikipedia

Its not a reason to leave (eng.) Wikipedia - I hope see you again in the next revert-war (chodz mnie z czalexem wkurzacie i tak czuje sympatie do Bialorusinow) ;)--Witkacy 23:11, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] duplicate content within a page

Hi - There was a mediawiki bug that's recently been fixed that caused content of a page to be duplicated when editing a section. It appears User_talk:Rydel/Archive1 was affected by this bug. Just letting you know so you can fix it if you care to. -- Rick Block (talk) 04:54, August 3, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] athletics

Thank you for making articles for Belarusian track & field athletes. After all, they are doing well at the World Championships. There are some more medal winners that currently don't have articles, perhaps you could write them?

Punkmorten 08:50, 14 August 2005 (UTC) more added Punkmorten 14:41, 25 August 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Belarus

Thanks for making the changes. I was wondering if the Belarus article looks ok or does it need a few grammar specialists to go through it again? Zach (Sound Off) 20:58, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Belarusophobia

See histories of List of Belarusians and List of Russians. mikka (t) 21:51, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Lukashenk(o|a)

I reversed your change from Lukashenko to Lukashenka in Flag of Belarus. Not that I have an opinion in the matter, just for consistency reasons, at least on the same page it should always be spelled the same (now it is the case). Also, English media almost always refer to him as Lukashenko, wether this is correct or not. So for an English speaker that's the expected spelling I'm afraid. -- JidGom 12:53, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

I think the article on Lukashenk(o|a) on here is at Alexander Lukashenko. Zach (Sound Off) 02:52, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
Speaking about Flag of Belarus, can you let us use a photo of the White/red/white flag from http://www.rydel.net/pics/ukrainians2004/? Zach (Sound Off) 02:53, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Image:Minsk kalvaryja.jpg

Could you please take a look to commons:Category:Calvary cemetery, Minsk and choose other picture for Kalvaryja article? I don't want to claim these images are better in any way, just to promote free version. Thank you. --EugeneZelenko 15:31, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Belarus

Yes you can! I'm learning. I want to know everything. User:Bonaparte

Well, you are not asking very smart questions. Is Romanian different from Latin? Do you speak Latin? --rydel 21:38, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
Well, the quality of the question doesn't matter, but the answers matters. Regarding to your question romanian (ROMA-nian -- ROME - capital of the Roman Empire) is a latin language. It differs now after 2000 years :), but the root is latin. Just an example: Ego sunt (LATIN) - I am; Eu sunt (ROMANIAN). You see, these kind of examples I would like to see on that page. Some comparative studies, this would be interesting. Somehow I got the feeling that my questions dislike you rather. I hope I'm wrong. You didn't explain me why do you think are not smart questions. See you. User:Bonaparte
Bonaparte, eu stiu. Eu vorbesc Romaneste (dar foarte rău). Please tell me what's your level of proficiency in Russian? --rydel 13:25, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
Very intersting. How come that you know romanian? I'm glad to hear this. You did speak very good, not bad as you said :). Anyway why are you interested in my level of proficiency in Russian? I see no connection with what I've asked on that page. However I want to answer your question, I don't want to avoid ...well is poor. Romania looks towards West not East. Since 1960s the russian language was replaced with english in Romania. User:Bonaparte
The connection is obvious. I'm perplexed, as how would it be helpful to compare Belarusan and Russian languages for someone, who doesn't speak any Russian? --rydel 15:05, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
Do I have to speak to see a comparison? No, of course not. That's why it is an educational tool. To see, to understand, to learn. Unless you have something against which I found very wired I would like you to help me. Are they so identical or not? I don't know but a comparison will be helpful. User:Bonaparte
Yes, Bonaparte, you do have to speak it, in order to benefit from such comparison. Otherwise, I really can't see how that could be helpful. And, no, the languages are not identical at all. In fact, a Russian speaker who didn't have any exposure to Belarusan or Ukrainian before, will probably understand very little (25-30%). Here are some places for you to start:
Well it all depends on the accent. I mean I could easily understand 90% of what people were telling me in Vitebsk or in Gomel Oblasts, but then in the Kuban we speak balachka a local dialect of Russian and Ukrainian mixtures. When my wife speaks Volynian dialect of Ukrainian to me (which is very similar to the Polessian dialect of Belarus) I understand ALL of it. Galician Ukrainian on the other hand is as you say 20-30%. However since Belarus has no equivalent of Western Ukraine, culturally and politically, this is not a problem for a Russian to go to Belarus and get compleately lost. --Kuban kazak 19:08, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Belarusan Basic Phrases (please, compare in case, you are interested how many times Russian is much more similar to Bulgarian, than to Belarusan)
Site is wrong in comaprison, it only trasnliterated words letter for letter, ignoring combinations like Dz, which is pronounced as a soft form of D. --Kuban kazak 19:12, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
There is no comparison there. It's just a list of basic phrases for interested people, such as tourists. You still haven't answered my question below (18:56, 3 December 2005 (UTC)). How many Belarusan language publications there were in Russian empire in 1897?
Well 1904 was when the language was legally recognised as separate from Russian. From then on I presume that books were translated from Russian into Belarussian (of which you can find plenty in any historical library in Belarus), I happen to owe a copy of Pushkin in Belarussian published in 1907, which my great great grandfather bought during his travel to Minsk in 1910. Original authors must have emerged, not immediately but good respectible works would have flourished, after the revolution, definetely. USSR even initially redrew the BSSR's borders with conscesions from RSFSR: Vitebsk, Gomel Oblasts etc.-- Kuban kazak 20:05, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
If nothing else, this phrase 1904 was when the language was legally recognised as separate from Russian clearly and totally disqualifies you from being a meaningful contributor to Belarusian language and History of Belarus. --rydel 00:30, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
Yes, by officials from Petersburg who naively thought that Belarussian (and Ukrainian) was nothing but a dialects of Russian, and victims of Polonisation. The census of 1897 showed them the reality. Hence they allowed them to freely function. Schools began teaching in Belarussian and nearly all printing press in the Belarussian provinces was switched to Belarussian. -- Kuban kazak 01:53, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Introduction to Belarusian Alphabet (this is done exactly in the fashion, that you wanted it to be: comparing with Russian)
  • Letter Frequency (Belarusian and Russian comparison again, as you wanted it)
  • Swadesh List! (And here, the part you probably wanted the most: the Swadesh list for Belarusian - Polish and Russian - Belarusian. The Swadesh lists are used to measure lexical similarity of the languages and the approximate dates of the "divergence" of similar languages. The result is obvious that Polish and Belarusian vocabulary is more similar than Russian and Belarusian.)

Once you are done reading those articles I'd be happy to answer further questions. --rydel 15:32, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Thank you Rydel. You still did not answer my question. I did look at your links at I found them very useful. Thankx!
Now tell me why is not good to have such comparison also in the article?
I already saw now very quickly that yes/no (Tak / Nye) is taken rather from Polish then russian, even if the comparison on that page is only between Bg-Ru-Brus. Which by no means I knew before.
You should add them now in the article. Is good to have such examples. User:Bonaparte
Basic vocabulary is something you can easily find on the Web. Usually, encyclopedic articles on languages don't include such trivial informaiton. They try to give a more serious overview, not provide basic phrases for tourists. At least, that's my understanding. --rydel 16:30, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] End Russification Propaganda!!!!

Sorry but your claims in several articles hold no validity. In the census of 1897 in the following Guberniyans the Belarussian speakers accounted for absoloute majority: (roughly after 100 years of Russian rule) and called their language nor Russian but instead Belarussian:

All Empire 125640021 5885547 55667469 7931307
Guberniya Total Population Belarussian Great Russian Polish
Vilna 1591207 891903 78623 130054
Vitebsk 1489246 987020 198001 50377
Grodno 1603409 1141714 74143 161662
Minsk 2147621 1633091 83999 64617
Mogilev 1686764 1389782 58155 17526
Smolensk 1525279 100757 1397875 7314
Chernigov 2297854 151465 495963 3302
Forevisla guberniyas 9402253 29347 335337 6755503

!!!!!MAP1!!!!! !!!!!MAP2!!!!!

Conclusion: By the end of the 19th century on the territory gained in Polish partitions and in 1815 Russian language shows no dominating use. Therefore no evidence for Russifacations exist. Так что спи спокойно и прекрати бред нести. -- Kuban kazak 17:09, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Dear Russian user, can you name me at least one publication (newspaper, magazine) in Belarusian language in 1897, published in Russian empire? Can you quote the circulation of that newspaper or magazine? --rydel 18:56, 3 December 2005 (UTC)


Here is more Here is more, same site, only about Post revolution data about the BSSR:

Census Year Total Population Belarussian Great Russian Polish
1939 5568994 4615496 364705 58380
1959 8054648 6532035 659093 538881
1970 9002338 7289610 938161 382600
1979 9532516 7567955 1134117 403169
1989 10151806 7904623 1342099 417720

BTW feel free to put this data on your blog, and share it with your fellow "Litvians". -- Kuban kazak 17:48, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Hey kuzakk first of all you should refrain yourself from making personal attacks or sarcastic remarks. That's the first lesson. user:Bonaparte

I'm still waiting my answer. Bonaparte 19:02, 3 December 2005 (UTC)