Talk:Ryan White

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Featured article star Ryan White is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do.

Contents

[edit] Early comments

I think this is a good entry. However, do we need the full text of "Ryan White's Testimony before the President's Commission on AIDS" in the article? I mean, surely it is located somewhere on the Internet that we can just link to. —Frecklefoot 21:13, 10 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Ideally, yes, but I don't see it much on the net with a quick Google search. Just ours, the mirror sites, and a site at Geocities (which overall aren't known for their longevity). - Hephaestos 21:16, 10 Nov 2003 (UTC)

How about we link to this page (http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Exhibit/8222/rwtest.htm )—I think it is the Geocities page you were referring to—and just re-insert the text if/when it goes dead. I think the speech is fine, but it sure takes up a lot of space. Imagine if we inserted the text of every US President's speches! —Frecklefoot 21:36, 10 Nov 2003 (UTC)

I agree, the text overwhelms the article. This would be ideal for the Sourceberg project but I'm not sure what the status is on that right at the moment. - Hephaestos 22:34, 10 Nov 2003 (UTC)
I've kludged a temporary solution, I don't think this should probably be done widely, but it'll work here until Sourceberg's able to handle the info. - Hephaestos 22:42, 10 Nov 2003 (UTC)

"It has been speculated that" should refer to a specific individual or group doing the speculating. Otherwise it seems to border on non-NPOV. --Dfeuer 05:24, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] References

This article has just one source, a biography that is listed at the bottom, but nothing to indicate what content came from that source, with no citations whatsoever. Everything here may be valid, but no reader can tell that without more detailed sourcing. | Mr. Darcy talk 04:21, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Images

I'm trying to find some freely-licensed images for this page. The White House photo isn't great, but it's all I've got for now. I think it's really essential to have a picture of Ryan on this page. If anybody knows of any it'd be greatly appreciated. I've sent an e-mail to http://www.ryan.riverturn.org/ inquiring about the copyright status of their images and asking if they can be released under the GFDL. Any other tips would be greatly appreciated. --JayHenry 01:33, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ryan's Mustang

I believe Ryan's Mustang convertible was actually a limited-edition factory-painted orange...its most recent whereabouts were that either Jeanne(Mom) or Andrea(sister) actually hid it in an undisclosed Indianapolis-area location in order to protect its safety...Michaela92399 16:49, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ryan WHO???

It seems that the people of Kokomo are STILL seething w/ anger toward Ryan and his popularity to this day...you barely start mentioning his name and they abruptly change the subject(not because he's now dead, but because[in their views], he brought negative publicity to the city and its history)...how sad that Kokomoans to this day continue to treat his mom and sister like...well, you know...Michaela92399 16:56, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wow

I initially read about Ryan in my American Government textbook, then I came here to read more about him. Ryan's treatment from Kokomo was unjust, and I can't believe that the city is still angry at him today! If there were some charity or funds for him or in his honor, I would definitely donate.Prottos007 22:41, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Semi-automatic peer review

The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.

  • The lead of this article may be too long, or may contain too many paragraphs. Please follow guidelines at WP:LEAD; be aware that the lead should adequately summarize the article.[?]
    • 1. Context - see Template:Biography
    • 2. Characterization - appearance, age, gender, educational level, vocation or occupation, financial status, marital status, social status, cultural background, hobbies, sexual orientation, religious beliefs, ambitions, motivations, personality, what the term refers to as used in the given context.
    • 3. Explanation - deeper meaning and background.
    • 4. Compare and contrast - how it relates to other topics, if appropriate.
    • 5. Criticism - include criticism if there has been significant, notable criticism. need to compare to other aids spokesmen, if appropriate.
  • Per Wikipedia:Context and Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates), months and days of the week generally should not be linked. Years, decades, and centuries can be linked if they provide context for the article.[?]
  • If there is not a free use image in the top right corner of the article, please try to find and include one.[?]
  • There may be an applicable infobox, Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography/Infoboxes for this article. For example, see Template:Infobox Person, Template:Infobox School, or Template:Infobox City.[?] (Note that there might not be an applicable infobox; remember that these suggestions are not generated manually)
  • If this article is about a person, please add {{persondata|PLEASE SEE [[WP:PDATA]]!}} along with the required parameters to the article - see Wikipedia:Persondata for more information.[?]
  • Per Wikipedia:Context and Wikipedia:Build the web, years with full dates should be linked; for example, link January 15, 2006.[?]
  • Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (headings), headings generally should not repeat the title of the article. For example, if the article was Ferdinand Magellan, instead of using the heading ==Magellan's journey==, use ==Journey==.[?]
  • Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that it exemplifies some of Wikipedia's best work. See also User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a.[?]

You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. (Many sentences begin White... can some sentences have the subject of the biography in the middle or end of the sentence to mix up the sentence structure/format/grammar) Thanks, SriMesh | talk 05:59, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

I think I've made all these fixes. As noted above, I have been attempting to locate a free image, but it's quite difficult given the subject. I think this article is an example of where "headings generally should not repeat" does not apply. The act of congress is known as the "Ryan White Care Act" and we can't just call it the "Care Act" because in addition to being confusing, that's actually the name of a different act. I've tried to fix all dates, and I did a thorough copy edit to reduce redundancy (such as starting too many sentences with "White...") I eagerly await any further suggestions. --JayHenry 19:57, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re corrections

< 15,000 characters around 32 kilobytes > 30,000 characters
one or two paragraphs   two or three paragraphs   three or four paragraphs

This article as it stands now...the article is 14, 104 characters with no spaces, and 16, 751 characters with spaces, so should have a maximum of two paragraphs for the lead, but ideally, could be copy edited into one. If it were to pass a good article review-it would probably be listed under Natural sciences |Biology and medicine | Significant patients for an idea of other formats used for similar biographies in the medical field. Consider for the lead that if it were to pass feature article status at some time, or be posted on a portal - then only the lead is posted - does the lead adequately provide a summary of the whole article, is it very well written compared to the lead on the Wikipedia main page -todays featured article-, and does the lead induce the reader to seek out additional information provided in the ensuing sections? The current lead is four very short paragraphs, and could be tightened up with copyediting.

  • The argument in favour of leaving the section heading as is is valid. The use of an image does not necessarily pass or fail a good article. You may wish to use the template {{reqphotoin|Indiana}} on the talk page to gain assistance in finding a photo.

Done. --JayHenry 21:54, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

  • You may wish to see if there is a medical Wiki project banner which may be listed on the talk page as well.
Yeah, I've looked into this in the past. The AIDS project is inactive. It's really a media-related topic, so I don't think something like WikiProject Medical Genetics would be appropriate. I've searched quite widely for input as it's been difficult to get any feedback on this article whatsoever. When something like White happens in modern times, there's lots of current events-focused editors. But nobody really pays attention to media events of two decades ago. It's a good suggestion, but I've tried and feel I've exhausted this. --JayHenry 21:54, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
  • Check out the What Links Here? articles and see if a section in the article could be started entitled See Also which would provide links to internal wiki articles which mention Ryan White in their prose.
I've done this already as well, but rather than a See also section I have contextualized these links into the article. Context is always better than no context. I'm actually surprised that See also sections are not officially discouraged; they are usually lazy article writing. --JayHenry 21:54, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
  • I upgraded the rating from start to B class- it looks like many of the above points have indeed been addressed. SriMesh | talk 21:01, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Good article review

GA review (see here for criteria)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose): b (MoS):
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects): b (focused):
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    a (fair representation): b (all significant views):
  5. It is stable. For a subject which had controversy in the media, it has been very well written.
  6. It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic.
    a (tagged and captioned): b lack of images (does not in itself exclude GA): c (non-free images have fair use rationales):
  7. Overall:
    a Pass/Fail:

So basically - continue to tweak the lead. Maybe - completely remove this lead, as ideally they are written when the article is finished. Make a paragraph which summarizes the sections or entire outline into a lead paragraph format. Then make a paragraph which addresses, context, characterization, explanation, compare (similar spokespeople), and contrast (differences amongst spokespeople for aids), and any criticism. Thirdly merge the two new paragraphs with the existing or old introduction. Then reduce the whole new merged creation down to one paragraph of the main, most important points.

If this is done, IMHO, I think it may pass overall. Good luck, and good work BTW. SriMesh | talk 21:01, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

I rewrote the lead. I used two paragraphs as I feel that one graph summarizes his life itself, the second summarizes his context and legacy. Because these two points are fairly distinct I feel it'd be quite inappropriate to reduce to one paragraph. As White was a 14-year-old who acquired a deadly disease while being treated for a different disease, I think it goes without saying that there was not criticism of him. --JayHenry 21:46, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
Changed rating to pass, and listed article congratulations! SriMesh | talk 01:52, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Address Correction

Ryan White did not live in Kokomo and did not attend Kokomo Schools. He lived outside the city limits. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.114.102.68 (talk) 06:53, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

According to the sources, and I believe the article reflects this: White was born in Kokomo, his family lived in southwest Kokomo, where the assigned public school was outside of city limits, in Russiaville. The harassment took place largely in Kokomo (where most of the public spaces are) and the legal battle took place at the Howard County Circuit Court in Kokokmo. There are sources that talk about how Kokomo has always felt maligned by the Ryan White coverage, but I don't think this article incorrectly attributes anything to Kokomo, though I could change the article to say "Kokomo area" or "Howard County, Indiana" more often, if you think that would be preferable. --JayHenry 15:48, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jerry Falwell comment

I don't see what Falwell's remark has to do with the subject of this article. He was not talking about young Mr. White, and do have this remark in the article is POV. --rogerd (talk) 06:05, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm fine with removing it if it offends. My intent was to provide an example of the sort of attitudes that existed about AIDS before Ryan White become a well-known national spokesman. The source used the quote from Falwell and so I followed the source. I found the quote to be vivid, but did not intend for it to seem non-neutral. I have no agenda or interest with regard to Falwell otherwise, and as such I'm fine with the removal as multiple editors agree. I apologize if this seemed that I was trying to grind some sort of axe -- on the contrary, I just want to write interesting articles! --JayHenry (talk) 01:14, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Questions and comments

  • The Act was reauthorized in 2006; its Ryan White Programs are the largest provider of services for victims of HIV/AIDS. In the US or worldwide?
    Possibly world wide, but the sources are just talking about US. --JayHenry (talk) 23:08, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
  • even minor injuries to lead to severe bleeding Unclear. Is one of the "to"s a typo?
    Just a typo. Good catch! --JayHenry (talk) 23:08, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
  • at the time of White's rejection from school, the Centers for Disease Control knew of only 148 cases of pediatric AIDS. In the US or worldwide?
    I changed this to "in the US" but then I went and looked at the source and it's regrettably ambiguous. It quotes the CDC saying "we know of 148 cases". The CDC, as part of DHSS, gathers US Statistics, but could conceivably be aware of foreign statistics. I'll see if I can figure this out some other way. --JayHenry (talk) 23:08, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
  • The article goes pretty suddenly from his ostracism from school to his worldwide celebrity status. Maybe some more details could be included? (His first public speech, early appearances, etc.)
    That's a good thought, I think I can do this. --JayHenry (talk) 23:08, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
  • In the early 1980s, AIDS was known as gay-related immune deficiency... Was this worldwide? My impression is that it happened to hit gay communities in the US, but did not follow the same pattern in, say, Europe.
    The term AIDS wasn't coined until 1982. It's my understanding that the disease was discovered because of the gay communities in San Francisco and New York and only later identified as being present worldwide. I don't believe there was parallel discovery by European researchers under a different name. --JayHenry (talk) 23:08, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for working so hard on this very important article. – Scartol • Tok 22:41, 19 January 2008 (UTC)