Talk:Ryūkyū Kingdom

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nb: amami islands in Kagoshima Pref. were also part of the Kingdom

since been mentioned.—Tokek 28 June 2005 04:44 (UTC)

Contents 1 Merger Tag 2 Independent? 3 Article renamed 4 Succeeding entity 5 Pretender 6 Hokuzan unification was 1416 or 1419 ?

[edit] Merger Tag

I am removing the Merger tag suggesting the merger with Ryukyuan history. There has been zero discussion on this issue, and the tag has long since been removed from that article. Turly-burly 02:53, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

• I completely disagree with this, but since I admitedly have had no time to deal with the matter, I would be a jerk to revert. Unschool 05:42, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Independent?

Is it really factual to describe Ryukyu as an "independent kingdom" when it recognized Chinese imperial authority?

Would not "dependent kingdom" (to coin a phrase), or, (if there are no Ryukyuan nationalists in the room) "vassal state" be more objective?

The Ryukyu Kingdom was a tributary state not only to China, but also Japan. It is considered to have been independent. Though it may have been at different times a puppet state of Japan or China, its government's independence from both powers was a large part of why so small a place could play an important role in trade and politics of the region. It's important to note that, according to the China, all states were subordinate to their own, and thus were either those unlawfully rejecting their authority (like Japan) or fittingly recognizing the emperor's divine right to rule them (like anyone who wanted to trade with them, including Okinawa). I think I have that right; Kerr answers this "Independence?" question in a similar way, if I remember correctly, in his history of Okinawa. Turly-burly 00:51, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

This article does not clarify, indeed confounds, the process which Ryukyu experienced between 1872, i.e. the change to han status in that year, and then prefectural status in 1879. Bettelheim is spelt thus and not Bettleheim. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.44.88.209 (talk) 23:58, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Article renamed

I've renamed this article from Ryukyu Kingdom to Ryūkyū Kingdom in accordance with the guidelines in the Manual of Style for Japanese articles. Bobo12345 11:58, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Succeeding entity

What is the appropriate succeeding entity to use? Okinawa Prefecture or Empire of Japan? In this case, Ryūkyū Kingdom was annexed and taken over by the Empire of Japan. If you were on the islands, you were previously part of the Ryūkyū Kingdom and now part of the Empire of Japan. The entire time, the people were in Okinawa (though it was not a prefecture of Japan. In looking at other uses of {{Infobox Former Country}}, most of the preceding/succeeding entities are countries or empires (ie who ruled over or governed the place). Clicking through the history of a land reveals the country that it was formed from and what countries it became.

I also have a problem with directly linking to Okinawa Prefecture because there are several stages between the Ryūkyū Kingdom and modern Okinawa Prefecture (Empire of Japan, Occupied Japan, United States Civil Administration of the Ryukyu Islands (separate from the rest of Japan)). The direct succession to the current Okinawa Prefecture is not correct, and I believe the Empire of Japan is the best succession to use. Rather than using the logic "became" for succeeding entities (as in the Ryūkyū Kingdom became Okinawa Prefecture), it is more appropriate to use "became governed by" or "became under the control of" (as in the Ryūkyū Kingdom became under the control of the Empire of Japan). --Scott Alter 20:48, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

The Ryukyu Kingdom did not become the Empire of Japan, it became Okinawa Prefecture (in 1879, going only through the very short-lived phase of being "Okinawa han" from 1872-1879); this happened long before WWII and the Occupation, so it is indeed the prefecture which is the next succeeding entity. Note that the Kingdom of Hawaii became the Provisional Government, then the Territory, then the State of Hawaii and the Republic of Texas the State of Texas; neither ever became the United States. I do apologize for not discussing this directly with you to begin with, but please see the brief discussion of the issue at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Former_countries#Annexations and the instructions page on the Former Countries infobox, which reads "If an entity simply became a subdivision of another country (state, province, etc.), then link to that subdivision. Only do this if it the transition is very clear. Example: the Republic of Texas was annexed by the USA and reconstituted as the US state of Texas. The successor here is not the USA, but the modern state of Texas."

I understand and appreciate your logic of "governed by" as opposed to becoming, but I'm afraid I simply disagree as to which logic is the better one to follow. I think it is more important to relate a narrative of reorganizations or redefinitions of a given territory across time, and not simply to relate which countries or governments absorbed the territory. I do not doubt that you've found plenty of examples of cases in which the infobox has been used to reflect the country or government which absorbed, conquered, or annexed the territory, but there are nevertheless plenty of counterexamples, including not only Hawaii and Texas, but also the Kingdoms of Scotland, Wales and England, which today remain distinct entities within the UK. LordAmeth 23:16, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pretender

Is there a current pretender to the throne or did the last king die in Tokyo without an heir? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.222.246.34 (talk • contribs) 15:58, 7 June 2007

The kingly line and royal institution, indeed the Kingdom itself, were formally abolished in 1879 when the territory was formally annexed as a prefecture. The last king, Sho Tai, ceased to be a king at this time, becoming a Marquis, with no succession allowed to take place. Sho Tai died in 1901, and his extended family & household fully gave up traditional dress and practices of the Ryukyuan royal family in 1903, at the end of a period of mourning, and adopted the lifestyle of the Japanese kazoku (aristocracy). Sho Tai's son Sho Ten died in 1920, and was the last member of the line to be buried in the royal tombs at Shuri. So, in short, no, there is no one today who lays any claim to the throne of Ryukyu. LordAmeth 22:13, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hokuzan unification was 1416 or 1419 ?

There are two different year in this article and other relates articles for the unification of Hokuzan. or the occupation and unification were in different years?. In the japanese articles the year is 1416. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tuqui (talk • contribs) 05:40, 8 November 2007 (UTC)