Talk:Rwanda

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I have moved all the links to Rwandan Genocide-related topics to Bibliography of the Rwandan Genocide. (That's ALL the external links, and some of the "See Also"s.) Rwanda is a country, not a genocide, as Vietnam is a country and not a war. The Genocide is well linked from this page, and splitting the links on one topic between two pages is always a bad idea.- BanyanTree 00:44, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Under "Economy," the article says, "It is the most densely populated country in Africa..." Immediately afterwards, under "Demographics," it says, "Rwanda's population density, even after the 1994 genocide, is among the highest in Sub-Saharan Africa." Inconsistent and repetitive.

Contents

[edit] New stub templates

I've created two new stubs for Rwanda:

Use them wisely! :-) TreveXtalk 15:37, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] no Rwandan ethnicities?

I have removed the following contribution to the Demographics section:

However, recent authors on Rwandan History, have discovered that Rwandans don't regard themselves as ethnic groups. The three groups have always existed as occupational types: the Tutsi were pastoralists, owning lots of cows, and uninvolved in agricultural production. The Hutus were agriculturalists and worked the land, producing food.The Twa produced pottery which was used in exchange for agricultaral and dairy products. The three groups were inter-dependent, shared the common culture, and regarded themselves as Banyarwanda. Their differences in appearance and height were only emphasised during the colonial period, which demanded that everyone was categorised, hence the introduction of ethinicity. Even today, Rwandans don't regard themselves tribes or ethnic groups, despite what foreign media has led people to believe.

I might have let the middle sentences slide as the article could use a start of a discussion of the formulation, especially since the beginning of colonialism, of what are now hard definitions of ethnicity, as well as the pull between national and ethnic identities, but I know that the "Rwandans don't regard themselves as ethnic groups" bit is false from both my "book learning" and personal experience. There's something about a whole lot of people killing each other over designations for 50 years that makes people choose a side. I would love to see the study that is mentioned. - BanyanTree 02:54, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

Whilst this is a highly contentious issue, I think that some mention of the debate within social science on this issue is necessary. This is perhaps summed up best by Peter Uvin in his article 'Prejudice, Crisis, and Genocide in Rwanda' (African Studies Review 40 (1997), 91-115):

Disagreement exists on the distinction between Hutu, Tutsi and Twa. Are they distinct ethnic groups? Or are they socio-economic divisions within the society of Banyarwanda, akin to castes perhaps, or even social classes? Some authors suggest that by the 19th century hundreds of years of cohabitation and intermarriage had produced an 'integrated' social system wherin the categories of Hutu and Tutsi were largely occupationally defined: whoever acquired a sizeable herd of cattle was called Tutsi and was highly considered. In the same vein Rwandan emigrees in neighbouring Zaire were until recently known as belonging to the ethnic group of Banyarwanda - the local term for 'Rwandans;' many of them grew up knowing themselves solely as such.

– Uvin, 'Prejudice..., pp.92

You can find the whole article at JSTOR, but it's subscriber only. I guess they'd have a copy of the journal in most big libraries. My personal knowledge on the topic isn't sufficient for me to suggest precise wording at this stage, but I think it would be useful to point out that the debate does "exist", even if there's no academic (or popular) consensus.--Benwilson528 23:32, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Propaganda

This reads - in parts - like Tutsi propaganda. "In reality, it was Hutus who bombed..." etc. etc. - any references at all for these assertions? Or would it be ok to add "In reality, it was Jews who burned the Reichstag..." to the WW2 entry? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.144.87.199 (talk • contribs)

Go ahead and put {{fact}} after assertions that you feel are questionable. If you know for a fact that the article is wrong, simply correct it. Citations to credible sources would be appreciated if you did substantially change something, otherwise it's just a "You're wrong! - No, I'm not." argument. Thanks, BanyanTree 18:19, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] survivors.

Go see "Hotel Rwanda". A magnificent movie. Its about the masacre that occured On April 6, 1994, the airplane carrying President Habyarimana and Cyprien Ntaryamira, the President of Burundi, was shot down as it prepared to land at Kigali. Both presidents were killed when the plane crashed. As though the shooting down was a , military and militia groups began rounding up and killing all Tutsis they could capture as well as political moderates irrespective of their ethnic backgrounds. Large numbers of opposition politicians were also murdered. Many nations evacuated all their nationals from Kigali and closed their embassies as violence escalated. The prime minister and her ten Belgian bodyguards were among the first victims. The killing swiftly spread from Kigali to all corners of the country; between April 6 and the beginning of July, a genocide of unprecedented swiftness officially left 937,000 Tutsis and moderate Hutus dead at the hands of organized bands of militia: Interahamwe. Even ordinary citizens were called on by local officials to kill their neighbors. The president's MRND Party was implicated in organizing many aspects of the genocide.- user: DylonPipe 22:15, 14 August 2006.

[edit] Rwanda "R" flag

I fixed the flag, due to me converting the letter into a path. I do apologize for not doing this sonner. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 00:05, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] English in Rwanda

Why is English an official language of Rwanda? Aaker 21:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

English became an official language after 1990. Most members of the RPF had been in exile in Uganda and been educated there -- most therefore spoke English but not French. In addition, Rwanda's trade links with (English-speaking) East Africa have strengthened in recent years. Kahuzi 08:27, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
The official web site of the Government of Rwanda has a fact sheet which lists the languages of Rwanda as English, Kinyarwanda, French and Swahili (in that order!). Kahuzi 16:29, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Belgium and France

Belgium and France are the primary resposibles of the genocide by fostering hatred and discrimination. And why?? Why is that I cannot understand Europeans!(80.154.37.132 12:28, 25 July 2006 (UTC))

Is this simply your point of view or something you back with facts?

You mean during the colonial era? They chose the most "white" looking of the native population to rule the rest of the population. It was "efficient" to use the people to hold down the people and it stuck to the racial divide of "Europe vs. the rest". And from there we have tensions, racism, massacres, etc in africa.

-G

[edit] Dictatorship?

Why is Rwanda's government listed as a dictatorship and not a republic - to my knowledge it is now, although not completely democratic, but none the less a republic?

UKWiki 12:06, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Distances from other countries

I've removed this section, which was added by User:Akanemoto today as I don't feel it's sufficiently interesting or notable to occupy the large space needed for that table. Also no other country, except Albania, has such information, and any decision to include it would have to be made in one place for all countries. If people disagree with me then please discuss here. Cheers — SteveRwanda 10:36, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

[edit] How the section looked

This list showing the distances from G8 and G15 countries to Rwanda. (calculations with http://www.mapcrow.info/)

G8 countries.
G8 countries.
G15 countries.
G15 countries.
Countries Miles Kilometers Bearing
G8 countries
Flag of Italy Italy 3274.71 5269.98 SE
Flag of France France 3728.03 5999.53 SE
Flag of Germany Germany 3866.79 6222.83 SE
Flag of the United Kingdom United Kingdom 4328.62 6966.05 SE
Flag of Russia Russia 5655.68 9101.69 SW
Flag of Japan Japan 7297.10 11743.22 SW
Flag of Canada Canada 7519.11 12100.50 SE
Flag of the United States United States 8592.10 13827.27 SE
G15 countries
Flag of Kenya Kenya 589.84 949.24 SW
Flag of Zimbabwe Zimbabwe 1175.71 1892.08 NE
Flag of Nigeria Nigeria 1724.50 2775.25 SE
Flag of Egypt Egypt 2002.31 3222.32 SW
Flag of Algeria Algeria 2738.31 4406.77 SE
Flag of Iran Iran 2788.67 4487.80 SW
Flag of Senegal Senegal 3206.51 5160.24 SE
Flag of India India 3525.27 5673.21 SW
Flag of Sri Lanka Sri Lanka 3568.55 5742.86 SW
Flag of Malaysia Malaysia 5703.12 9178.03 SW
Flag of Brazil Brazil 5850.24 9414.79 NE
Flag of Indonesia Indonesia 6202.04 9980.94 NW
Flag of Argentina Argentina 6365.54 10244.07 NE
Flag of Venezuela Venezuela 6643.37 10691.17 SE
Flag of Chile Chile 6800.50 10944.04 NE
Flag of Peru Peru 7276.00 11709.27 NE
Flag of Jamaica Jamaica 7404.25 11915.65 SE
Flag of Mexico Mexico 8906.22 14332.77 SE

[edit] Proposed WikiProject

In my ongoing efforts to try to include every country on the planet included in the scope of a WikiProject, I have proposed a new project on Eastern Africa at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals#Eastern Africa whose scope would include Rwanda. Any interested parties are more than welcome to add their names there, so we can see if there is enough interest to start such a project. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 16:28, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] interahamwe translation

The Kinyarwanda word interahamwe does not mean "those who attack together". It means "those who are united". This poor translation, originally from a western journalist, was unfortunately repeated over and over. The word interahamwe was used in Rwanda before the famous militia was created. Generally, it is said of any group of people who show solidarity that they are interahamwe. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.200.117.218 (talk) 23:38, 28 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Jesters?

"The Twa, the smallest minority group, were court jesters and often exploited."

Can someone please explain what the above meant in practice? It makes no sense at all to a newcomer to the subject.

[edit] Proposed Link

Hi, I'm working with The Pulitzer Center, a non-profit journalism agency geared towards providing audience to underrepresented news stories. I'd like to link this page to a few related articles on the Pulitzer site; "Loss of Trees, Loss of Life," and others concerning deforestation in Rwanda, http://www.pulitzercenter.org/openitem.cfm?id=215 Please let me know if I can post these links. Many thanks in advance. Blendus 03:58, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mixed Up History

  • In World War II, the protectorate was controlled by the Nazi Party. Hitler's rule in the region was far more direct and harsh than the previous German occupation. They divided the native Rwandan people, based on skin color, eye color, nose length, etc., into three groups; the Tutsi, Hutu, and Twa. The Tutsi's, being lighter skinned and more "European looking" were given a higher status than Hutus. From this article,

however... from the Rwandan Genocide Article Following World War I, Rwanda became a protectorate of Belgium, whose colonial policy over the territory followed the German example and is considered especially influential in priming the genocide

[edit] <Films

Half the films in the list aren't Rwandian films, but made in South Africa, USA or some otehr country. They can surely be linked to through the article, but as it is right now you get the sense they're made in Rwanda. --83.248.190.175 23:14, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Fixed. MrZaiustalk 01:10, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
I have removed this list as clearly giving undue weight to a rather minor aspect of the country. A Category:Films featuring Rwanda might conceivably be useful, though I know of no such category for any other country. - BanyanTree 11:51, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rewrite

I have clearly re-written much of the history on this page. The amount of propaganda and misinformation on the Internet regarding Rwandan history is amazing! However, I am not up-to-date on the current structure of the government since the re-organisation of 2006. My analysis of the government was based on the 2003 constitution, which now appears to be rather irrelevant, given the total complete restructuring of the country. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mbabane (talk • contribs)

[edit] Commonwealth membership

There seems to be some confusion regarding Rwanda's application for and possible membership in the commonwealth. The Times [1] reported 20 November 2007 that Rwanda would be welcomed as a full member at the Commonwealth heads of government meeting in Uganda the same week but this does not appear from either the Commonwealth web page [2] or the official portal of CHOGM 2007 [3]. I therefore add this text to the intro of the article: "Rwanda has applied to become a member of the Commonwealth of Nations and a decision on its application is expected in 2009". Oyst1 (talk) 11:20, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Propaganda

[edit] minor currency/redundancy fix

"$25-35 million euros" under the "Rebuilding" section was changed to "€25-35 million." 69.201.134.75 (talk) 20:42, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Language

When/why did English become an official language? Woscafrench (talk) 11:31, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Missing Citation

I have never edited Wikipedia before, but I came across the source of the religious data under the Demographics heading and wanted to help out. I am not familiar with the code required to update it, and haven't gotten the hang of it in half an hour of poking around, so hopefully someone else will do the job for me. This website contains the non-cited data: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/rw.html Thank you. --Zenwitchgirl (talk) 03:18, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Added it. Thanks, §tepshep • ¡Talk to me! 22:05, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Time for a new Peer Review...

Been almost two years sincec last PR. §tepshep • ¡Talk to me! 22:09, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism

Fixed some minor adolescent vandalism, flagged page to be watched. Jamesdterry (talk) 01:04, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

  • There has been more juvenile vandalism today: could we watch this page more strongly?! Brequinda (talk) 12:24, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] pronunciation

someone added a uvular stop to the pronunciation. was this vandalism? kwami (talk) 05:53, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Speaking of the pronunciation, is a citation really needed for the non-English pronunciation? This seems slightly overboard, unless I've missed something in the Wiki guidelines. Edgbeatles (talk) 00:03, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
Nah, just justification here, so we know it's not a joke. kwami (talk) 00:26, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

The Twa, the aboriginal Pygmy inhabitants, have probably lived in the region in and around Rwanda for 3 years.

[edit] This Can't Be Right

"The Twa, the aboriginal Pygmy inhabitants, have probably lived in the region in and around Rwanda for 3 years."

3 years? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.123.105.191 (talk) 19:59, 10 May 2008 (UTC)