Talk:Russian political jokes

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Articles for deletion This article was nominated for deletion on 7 August 2007. The result of the discussion was keep.

Contents

[edit] Zero sources or references

This entire article should be deleted. Redflagflying 15:11, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

No. There are plenty of references. Judging from your vandalistic edits, you were offended by some of the jokes. --Cubbi 15:43, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
Vandalistic? That's a rich charge. This whole entry is bogus. No encyclopedia contains this sort of nonsense. BTW, where's the 'anti-American jokes' page? Redflagflying 04:35, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
This is not 'anti-Russian jokes'. Please read the article. --Cubbi 13:04, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] U vas maysa netu?

A joke dleted; translation problem.

A store that does not have any meat.
A store that does not have any meat.
  • A man walks into a store: "You don't have any meat, do you?" / "No, we don't have any fish. The store next door is the one that doesn't have any meat."

This joke is totally confusing to non-Russians. The russian grammar of a question "U vas net myasa?", with the stress on the word "net", actually means exactly opposite: "Do you have any meat?" I.e., it is an affirmative-type question. "You don't have any meat, do you?" translates as, like, "U vas net myasa, ne pravda li?" I.e., the question requests confirmation of a negative statement.

The versions "Don't you have any meat?" or "You do have some meat, don't you?" will not go. Any other suggestions about affirmtive questions that contain negation (so that the pun may be rendered without boring explanations)?

By the way, the way at is stands, the joke may cause only a mild shrug: "this shop doesn't have fish, another one doesn'r have meat; what's the problem, may be the first shop has meat and the second one has fish after all?" The punch of the joke is that the first shop is a fish shop. It does not have any fish, but it is perfectly comfortable in terms of meat: it does not have to say: "No, we don't have any meat"; it is the meat shop that does not have any meat: "so piss off, go bug them instead of us", rather than "No we dont have any meat; would you like some fresh fish instead?" `'mikka (t) 00:41, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

There is an equivalent English joke... A man goes into a restaurant and orders apple pie, and asks for no cream. "Sorry," says the waiter, "we are out of cream. You'll have to have it without custard". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.125.226.97 (talk) 22:07, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Praise

This page is great. Brutannica 06:54, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

as far as I know (and I know), the photo of meat shop is made in Poland, is of Polish meat shop, and it's quite famous here in Poland. how about short note about it? or remove it, i think. cheers.

[edit] WP Is not a jokebook

I have been bold and removed much of the jokes and superflous information. What I have left is commentary on the jokes and their impact on society. I believe that much of what is there now is original research, because there are no sources listed to go on. I will probably be reverted, but I wished to explain myself.

The Hammer & Tickle article at least proves notability, provided that the website is credible (I cannot tell). I assume that most of the discussion on the jokes in this article came from there. If not, it should be removed. I hope to get around to reading that novel of an article, so I can verify what is said here. The links to Amazon.com do not help anything, because you aren't actually citing the book. The book itself needs to be cited. If the books there have information on the jokes themselves, not just a list of them, then that should really be included. I do not own any copies of the books, so I can't. I'll try to do a bit more research.

All in all, there is much that can and should be done to this page. However, it should not be a jokebook. I have left a few examples on ones that I thought illustrated some of the points discussed in the analysis. Feel free to change the examples, but do not restore this page as a jokebook. i said 05:33, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

As you rightfully guessed, your massive deletion was reverted. There were a number of major joke topics, which were illustrated by 1-2 jokes, so it is hardly a jokebook. Please feel free to add text to the article; sources abound. `'Míkka 16:02, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
There were topics, but each example need not have an accompanying joke. i said 18:59, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
Disagreed. The article needs not deletion of jokes but addition of critical text. Then it will become well-balanced. Of course, to hit "del" key is much easier... `'Míkka 19:09, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
It is. There is nothing to justify this amount of jokes. It does need addition of critical context, but adding it will not justify 44 jokes in one article. i said 19:15, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
Opinion disagreed. Examples and quotations are justified in virtually all topics. Number irrelevant, as long as they are for different topics. `'Míkka 19:29, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
We are obviously not going to go anywhere with this conversation. What do we do next. i said 19:33, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
Write wikipedia. `'Míkka 19:37, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
I try to improve it, which includes getting rid of these jokes. I mean which of the many fora do we go to next. i said 19:38, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
Obviosly you are foreign to Russian culture. Nearly all of the jokes quoted in the article have been running jokes in Russian culture and created cliches in Russian language. In otyher words, they are notable. May I humbly suggest you to edit things you really know? For example, I am not messing with huge numbers of pokemon and porn star articles I would gladly see deletd. `'Míkka 19:43, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
Show me sources that indicate these specific jokes are notable. I am not restricted to only things I know about. If that happened, then this would be cruft a pedia. These individual jokes, however important they may be to Russian culture (which, individually I do not believe) do not need to be listed here. Russian political jokes as a concept are notable, and deserve an article. If you wish to make a jokebook, go to Wikibooks. Except that Jimbo deleted it. Do not list jokes here. i said 19:54, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
Nobody "lists" jokes here. Just the opposite: last two years I am deleting them. Good bye. `'Míkka 19:56, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
Fine. Excuse my wording. This article gives very breif descriptions about a class of joke, (and sometimes doesn't) and then gives around three examples. We do not need that. We need discussion about Russian jokes as a part of their society, and a few examples that strongly illustrate some points. Not every single one. (ec) Goodbye? What do you mean? i said 20:00, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
The article is quite interesting ... and amusing. It is not perfectly neutral; it leaves much to be explained in places - but deletions are not the answer. Please, focus on constructive changes. 70.15.116.59 15:12, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fantastic Page Shame about the POV

a good page on soviet humour, and communist humour in general, as a british communist who has travelled to cuba and to other communists areas i am well versed in them myself. The only problem with the page is that it has a strong point of view, and i aint talking about the jokes which can be as critical as they want, however the bosh surrounding it such as (Note: Money is supposed to be abolished in communist society) which is an absoutley absurdly biased statement since socialism is meant to be a process and no one said anything about any utopian principles like that in any serious socialist litreature. Along with the general slagging off of communism u find above and under every joke which fairly enough might come from the very anti communist essay which talks about soviet jokes that this article is seemingly entirley based on. Im going to make a big edit and if anyone wants to reverse it just slap a non neutrel thing on the top though its a bit silly we have to do this on a jokes article unfortunatley this is an encylopedia and u cant have that sorta bias here. f4i —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 21:49, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Let's discuss one step at a time. These are political jokes. Political jokes poke fun at politics. Politics in the Soviet Union was Communist Party and Soviets. Hence jokes poke fun at communism and Soviet power. Therefore I fail to see why you think the article is biased ("anti-communist"). Since you say you are communist, please keep in mind to avoid confusion between the ideals of communism/socialism and the impliementation of these ideas in the Soviet Union. `'Míkka 22:24, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

well im not trying to say all the jokes should go, understand that at least. im fine with "anti-soviet" jokes who doesnt tell jokes about there countries government. However its little things like(Note: Money is supposed to be abolished in communist society) and saying the soviet union wanted a utopian classless society, i meen the first one is just wrong and the second one is a bit biased since communism is based on scientific socialism and saying utpoian shows an obvious bias. Another main point of obvious bias is the using of the soviet enemy of the people thing in the constituion to call telling jokes and extreme sport, when it came down to it living in the soviet union was pretty normal and lines lines like that all add to this big weird idea that it was in someway an evil place to live. Apart from that really the article is just generally when u read it though anti communist. Also the soviet union was socialist no matter what people say, might not have been perfect but it was a socialist economy broadly following the ideads of marxist lennenism. Though that is not a discussion here and can be done another place (+ im new to this wikipedia editing and would never check this page enough and internet debating is useless unless everyones checking it every day) f4i 10:15, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Many of the jokes exist in other forms and other countries, specially those in the classic form of "three guys walk into a bar...": one does something mild, the other one something a little more extreme and the third one delivers the punchline; come on now, thats western humour!, i highly doubt any of these jokes are really from Russian itself, but about Russia.201.215.161.72 (talk) 12:27, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

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[edit] I lol'd

I came to this article because I overheard a Russian acquaintance saying to someone that Americans didn't find Russian humor funny. Very educational! Keep up the good work. Some of the translations are a little stilted and could be improved. I'd do that, but I don't want to inadvertently destroy the comedy. The critical text there is is good, but we can certainly use more. 164.107.191.89 (talk) 18:50, 21 May 2008 (UTC)