Talk:Russian Winter

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Who ever said that weather is quoted among the major reasons for german faliure of Barbarossa? It never was quoted as such, the evidence of which is the quote of german officer present in this very article. winter is a well known myth about why Russia won the conflict. No serious historian would ever say that winter had any significant impact on the outcome of conflict, it is just laughable, since it affects both sides of conflict, and during Napoleon invasion it affected russians more, since russians were in the depth of their territory, where winter is more severe. Could we please stop this common stereotype, unconfirmed by ANYTHING other than some people's wish to present winter as the major factor and not russian military strength, national character and military training.

Why does this article exist? The tactic it describes is covered by Scorched earth, and winter in Russia is in no way special compared to climatically similar parts of the world to deserve an article of its own.

I agree. This article is very poor. Scorched earth is poor as well, but this article is very poor. It has nothing about the actual Russian winter - when does it begin, when does it end? Is it uniform all over Russia, or is Siberia harsher than Mongolia? What are the extremes of temperature, and has the temperature increased over recent years? The article has a sarcastic tone, no sources or cites, and ends with a chunk of opinionated original research; or rather it did, until I deleted that bit. I believe that there is potential for an article on the Russian winter - it has altered history on at least two occasions - but it needs to be in the form "In his book X, noted history Y argued that the Russian winter was a contributing factor in Z. The (description of battle, campaign, outcome etc)" and so forth. -Ashley Pomeroy 12:48, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

Actually this article is not about the Scorched earth tactics nor about some unpredictable russian clymatic conditions. It's just about a myth and the disclaimer of those who invade Russia :)) MvR 22:38, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Contents 1 Merge 2 The content of the article 3 This a very useful article 4 Finally 5 Russian Winter in art

[edit] Merge

This article is poor. It should be merged. What with, is the question. Any thoughts? Guinnog 15:27, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Do you honestly believe your (badly written and badly punctuated) version to be better than mine? Two points:

1. You can't balance POV with more POV
2. It's rude to revert without giving a reason

Guinnog 17:58, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm fine about you moving this from your talk page, but I want you to reply as well, please. Guinnog 16:39, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

The Article is good and NO to merge because an article like the one you want to merg it with is big and mergein it will make it even more so and some people dontlike big articles in wiki and therefore will make this article again. Also I like big articles but I know some dont. (Deng 18:05, 31 March 2006 (UTC))

Oppose merging. It is not related to a single historical accident. The article is not so poor: as it stands now is pure original research. However I am quite sure there are quite a few references discuss this lame excuse. The point is to add them and remove some elements of bullshit. `'mikka (t) 07:25, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The content of the article

I have added some temperature data to the article. I'm native russian so sorry for possible grammar or other mistakes - if someone corrects them I would be grateful. I've been to different regions of Russia, so I can speak objectively about the climate. The text may be somewhat grammatically unliterate though..:)

Thanks for your contribution. It really needs more work to become worth keeping, but this is a step in the right direction. Guinnog 18:07, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

the article describes Soviet forces withdrawing into the interior to draw in German forces in WWII. this is an untrue statement the Soviet forces were killed, captured and beaten back. Their territorial losses were, on the whole, not voluntary. Feel free to check other wikipedia articles and military history sites. by the winter of 1941, the Soviet army of the frontier was almost entirely destroyed. (Jschager 01:07, 21 February 2007 (UTC))

the nosnense removed. `'mikka 02:56, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

The article states, that no one ever won a war with Russia on their territory. " No invader has won a war against Russians on their territory, since the Mongol invasion of Rus in 1223."

But there were many wars fought by Poland on Russian territory, which were successful. The most notable example are the Dimitriads. Although the main goal, the control of the Muscovy throne, was achieved only for a short time, the wars eventualy led to the expansion of Polish territories to the east. The war is also a symbol of the Polish golden age, which occured in the early 17th century.

[[1]]

also the Germans military defeated Russia in WWI.

Yes, when half of russian army dropped the riffles because of revolution. (well, not exactly so, but WWI is irrelevant in context of discussing of russian weather). `'mikka 02:56, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] This a very useful article

This article is very useful...entirely appropriate. I see that someone linked it to my Battle of Krasnoi article. Any Wikipedia articles dealing with foreign invasions of Russia, or wars in Russia, need to be tied-in with the issue of Russia's very unique geographical and climactic situation. No major wars between great world powers have been fought so far to the north except those involving Russia.

As for the article's weaknesses, they can be rectified over time. The criticisms of the article made by others above are a good started point for improving this one.

Kenmore 23:39, 8 November 2006 (UTC)kenmore

[edit] Finally

Im a Russian, and Im tired of people saying that the only reason Russia has been able to defeat great invading military powers was because of the climate and geographical location. Finally someone has aknoledged Russia's military capability. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.132.21.158 (talk) 01:03, 15 December 2006 (UTC).

namely, their vast numerical/territorial superiority.

And one thing more:

Russians like their winter. When tempreture is below 15, and all around is snow-white, you feel tonus and coolness in your body. A. Pushkin,the greatest Russian poet wrote:

    Tanya (profoundly Russian being,
    herself not knowing how or why)
    in Russian winters thrilled at seeing
    the cold perfection of the sky,
    hoar-frost and sun in freezing weather,
    sledges, and tardy dawns together
    with the pink glow the snows assume
    and festal evenings in the gloom.

Eugene Onegin Chapter 5

Sorry for my English.

[edit] Russian Winter in art